# Treis, no means no.

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [April 13, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556 "2013-04-13T01:07:05Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 5

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**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/81 "2013-04-13T13:27:13Z")

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> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Can we change April from Rape Month to Helicopter Dick Month?
> 
> Regards,  
> Shodan

Only if April says “no” which - as we all now know - means “yes, please, NOW!”

OTOH, if April says “yes”, then we have to call it Legalize Prostitutes for Rape Prevention Month and then go have sex with its mother at a bar.

Or something…

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**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/82 "2013-04-13T13:39:00Z")

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Oh I didn’t know the R in April R stood for Rape. That’s interesting! 🙂

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**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/83 "2013-04-13T13:55:53Z")

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> [@clairobscur](#):
>
> After reading the thread linked to about his infatuation, I wouldn’t be that harsh. My understanding is that **Panaccione** :
> 
> 1)Is Young  
> 2)Lacks social skills  
> 3)Is unsecure  
> 4)As a result of 1,2 and 3 he never had a relationship  
> 5)As a result of 1 and 4, he’s very horny  
> 6)As a result of 4 and 5, he wishes he could at least see a prostitute, which he can’t  
> 7)He’s clueless  
> 8) As a result of 5 and 6 he felt the urge to inject his frustrations into **MOL** ’s thread  
> 9)As a result of 2 and 7, he didn’t realize how irrelevant it was and how dickish his comments would appear.
> 
> However, I think he might not be a lost cause if he comes to realize that when every single poster tells him he’s wrong it probably means that he is, indeed, wrong (this applying to his own thread as well as his posts in **MOL** ’s thread).

The thing is, I really don’t give a shit how young and horny and inexperienced he is. He’s basically touting some pretty bullshit “solution” which perpetuates the role of women as empty sex providers to men. Fuck that noise. I’m not going to be like “oh, sweetie pie, no, dear, here’s how it is” when he keeps saying “It’s a good idea! Just think about it!”

Again, I would be interested to discuss this further in a GD thread, because I think it’s interesting to talk about. But frankly, to hold on with a death grip to the idea that legalizing an industry which puts women squarely in the role of “valuable as penis receptacle” does not increase their standing in society, it reinforces an unfortunate gender myth. And thatz not cool.

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**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/84 "2013-04-13T14:04:47Z")

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> [@Ferret\_Herder](#):
>
> As far as I can tell, that wasn’t published in a peer-reviewed journal, which doesn’t speak well to its general veracity, scientific method, thoroughness, etc.

Not hardly. The “PRO” people are as follows: an associate professor of Finance, a lawyer who was an undergraduate student at the time of the quote, who later became Director of the American Bar Association’s (ABA) Child Custody Pro Bono Project (who talks about an INCREASE in rape following criminalization of prostitution, not evidence of the inverse being true), and a columnist in India, a country renowned for its experience handling rapists and placing value on women.  
Interestingly, the “CON” people are as follows: the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women, the Safer Society Foundation, Inc., and a PhD, Founding Director of the Prostitution Research and Education organization writing in the journal “Violence Against Women”. You know, people who all work with women and prostitutes and research rape and prostitution. They all feel like it would be bad for rape statistics to legalize prostitution.

But that finance guy and the dude from India think it would be a great idea. Their arguments include, “The more you try to put down prostitution, the higher will be the incidence of crime against innocent women. You may find the idea repulsive but ponder over it and you will realise there is substance in the argument.”

Meaning, it sounds weird, but just think about it guys!! Just think about it.

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**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/85 "2013-04-13T14:47:10Z")

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> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#):
>
> You’re a helicopter dick tease. You keep bringing it up, but I don’t see any twirling my way. I wants me some big helicopter dick.

Call me… 😉

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**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/86 "2013-04-13T14:49:31Z")

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I haven’t read the entire thread in question–just the first and last pages–but am I the only one seeing a recurring meme of **“social interaction with a woman has no value unless it results in sex”**?

I realize that this isn’t as bad as “no doesn’t really mean no,” but I feel like the former feeds into the latter, _just_ a bit.

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**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/87 "2013-04-13T14:54:48Z")

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> [@LeeshaJoy](#):
>
> I haven’t read the entire thread in question–just the first and last pages–but am I the only one seeing a recurring meme of **“social interaction with a woman has no value unless it results in sex”**?

That’s a common theme around here. In relationship threads, some guys will unashamedly state they do _not_ want to be friends with women, they only want to screw them.

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**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/88 "2013-04-13T15:01:07Z")

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> [@AClockworkMelon](#):
>
> **treis** needs to take a lesson from [Good Guy Greg](http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/36966104.jpg).

Ha!

> [@Spud](#):
>
> Sorry MOL, my wife says Treis is right. That is why she had to sleep with the plumber, the cable guy, all five guys who came to give an estimate on remodeling our kitchen (it was much less than I expected, but took way, way longer to finish), the furnace guy (they do free monthly inspections), and the pool boy (we are just in the planning stage, but I guess you have to get on the list early).

True. You should have seen my disappointment when the internet guy showed up. Totally not my type, but I had to let him in if I wanted working internet, but you know what letting someone in means. ☹

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**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/89 "2013-04-13T15:02:59Z")

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> [@Troppus](#):
>
> **pan** , the men in the thread insisting that women don’t actually mean no when they say it and the PUA recommendations that men ply women with alcohol, relentlessly push for more physical contact, persist in using guilt to persuade women to dispense sex are the reasons that guys like MOL’s date ignore the word no. Your insistence that we take pity on the “sexually frustrated man” rather than the woman who he attempted to take advantage of is really shitty. No one is owed sex. Horniness isn’t a legit social, emotional, or physical illness. The fix doesn’t require government intervention or oversight; jerking off will end the “suffering”. We recently had a very ugly thread in which women who expressed wariness of strange men were shamed relentlessly for taking steps to ensure their safety. And in this thread, we’ve got men telling us we can’t extend courtesy to men because that indicates we want them to attempt to have sex with us, even when we say no. Men telling us we don’t really mean no. Men telling us that letting men into our homes obligates us to have sex with men we don’t want. The contradictions would be infuriating if they weren’t just incredibly disappointing. No means no, and we don’t need a magic bullet to figure that out.

Very well written. What I find so infuriating about the debate is the very men who insist they get “mixed signals” from women who engage in contemporary Western courtships rituals and dating are usually equally infuriated with women like me. No man who has ever come in contact with me no matter how profound his Asperger’s is could ever interpret my behavior as flirting or a signal for sex. I don’t touch men who aren’t my family. I would never be alone in a room with a man who wasn’t related to me. One would think if they find dealing with women so confusing they would appreciate this blunt obviousness in my personality. Instead far too many of them are infuriated when a women even in the most brief and ideally formal social interactions doesn’t acknowledge that they are men desirable for sex.

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**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/90 "2013-04-13T15:11:44Z")

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Just caught the ass end of a movie called “Crazy Stupid Love”  
In it a young 13yo bot is constantly trying to win the affection of a girl. After being rejected by this girl for the 100th time, he’s about to give up. That is until his dad pops in and basically says: “No son, you can NEVER give up. Keep on trying son! Never give up on true love!”  
I found this be slightly creepy. But I think it kind of underscores what going on in this thread and what’s going on in today’s society. It’s a cultural paradigm that us men _have_ to be persistent.

Don’t get me wrong **MOL** ’s guy was being an asshat. I’m just trying to illustrate where some of this asshatery might be coming from.

Hell, if Hollywood’s idea of romance is stalking a woman until she capitulates, we’re all fucking doomed.

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**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/91 "2013-04-13T15:14:12Z")

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Actually, it goes something like this.

1. I’m young

2. I’m handsome

3. I’m confident

4. I’m charming

5. I can’t possibly be beaten

6. etc…

Look, I get that it was out of line to bring up the topics that I did in that particular thread. I was simply trying to discuss what would make somebody act like the guy in question and what solutions we may have available. Some of you think my idea is stupid. So be it.

That’s no reason to insult and demonize me. I didn’t do that to any of you because it simply takes away from the discussion. In reality, I don’t know you and you don’t know me. So all of this name calling means nothing at all.

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**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/92 "2013-04-13T15:28:27Z")

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> [@Shakes](#):
>
> In it a young 13yo bot is constantly trying to win the affection of a girl. After being rejected by this girl for the 100th time, he’s about to give up. That is until his dad pops in and basically says: “No son, you can NEVER give up. Keep on trying son! Never give up on true love!”

Bots NEVER give up!

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**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/93 "2013-04-13T15:29:31Z")

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> [@Shakes](#):
>
> Hell, if Hollywood’s idea of romance is stalking a woman until she capitulates, we’re all fucking doomed.

Right, some guys have watched too many movies. “Persistence = key!” No, dipshits, persistence = stalking. If I’m not interested now, I’m not going to become interested because you keep pestering me.

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**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/94 "2013-04-13T15:33:21Z")

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What about now.

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**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/95 "2013-04-13T15:48:36Z")

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Okay!

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**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/96 "2013-04-13T15:53:32Z")

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(score!)

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**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/97 "2013-04-13T15:53:56Z")

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I think I’ve said this in about a billion other threads on male/female relationships, and I hope this doesn’t come off as threadshitting, but it’s issues like these that make me just so glad I’m gay \>\_\<. I live in a completely different world where no means no, I don’t feel like anyone has ever been rudely persistent with me, nor I toward them, and I certainly would never confuse an invitation to get out of the rain as code for, “I want you to fool around with me,” especially when you have flat out told me there is no interest and you’re only doing it to be nice.

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**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/98 "2013-04-13T15:54:43Z")

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> [@MeanOldLady](#):
>
> Okay!

By which I assume you mean no. Dammit.

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**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/99 "2013-04-13T16:06:36Z")

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> [@drewtwo99](#):
>
> I think I’ve said this in about a billion other threads on male/female relationships, and I hope this doesn’t come off as threadshitting, but it’s issues like these that make me just so glad I’m gay \>\_\<. I live in a completely different world where no means no, I don’t feel like anyone has ever been rudely persistent with me, nor I toward them, and I certainly would never confuse an invitation to get out of the rain as code for, “I want you to fool around with me,” especially when you have flat out told me there is no interest and you’re only doing it to be nice.

Shit all you like, you’re in the pit. But you get it, right? The _words of men are taken at face value._ The words of women are translated through a thick, greasy filter of misogyny which informs men that women are tricky bitches who employ all manner of cock-blocks in order to confound them and prevent them from getting their due poon. It’s nothing but projection and wishful thinking, and it’d be amusing if it weren’t for the “never give up!” meme and the testimonials where men admit to wearing a woman down until she gives in.

But women are fucked either way because we do like sex, we do like men and want companionship, friendship, and relations. But we never know if we’re in the presence of an evolved, humanist male who respects people, or if we’re trapped in an apartment or elevator with Rapey McFelony.

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**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/100 "2013-04-13T16:27:53Z")

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> [@Troppus](#):
>
> That’s a common theme around here. In relationship threads, some guys will unashamedly state they do _not_ want to be friends with women, they only want to screw them.

And waiting around to establish emotional intimacy before sex, hey, fuck that shit - why should I waste my time? She’s hot, I want her, I really don’t give a damn what her interests or emotional needs are. But she’s supposed to give a damn about my physical needs.

MOL’s original thread should be a sticky we can point to for every time a guy comes on and wants to know why women are bitches and unapproachable.

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