# Treis, no means no. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 13, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556 "2013-04-13T01:07:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/121 "2013-04-13T19:05:47Z")
> [@treis](#): > > And to be clear here, the “no” I’m referring to is along the lines of “Want to come up for coffee but no sex”. If you are trying something, a “no” definitively means stop. “Want to come up for coffee but no sex?” is an explicit no. If you find yourself “trying something” after that invitation, then you’re an asshole. You’re an asshole regardless of why she said no initially, and regardless of whether she changes her mind. There’s no “get out of asshole free” card just because your date isn’t entirely secure in her own sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/122 "2013-04-13T19:15:10Z")
> [@treis](#): > > This is an excellent explanation of the cultural environment that leads to fucked up attitudes about sex. One of the results of this is that there is a subset of women that want to have sex but don’t want to feel like their sluts. The solution for them is that they want to be talked into it. It’s fucked up, but it’s a real phenomenon. I have no idea how common it is, but some variation of that attitude has been present in three of the girls I’ve slept with. Since that represents about 30% of the people I’ve slept with, I can only assume it’s relatively common. So your vast and varied experience with three irresolute women qualifies you to both spank **MOL** for “asking for it” and also make a sweeping claim that women who say no really mean yes. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/123 "2013-04-13T19:21:22Z")
I dont think women should have to compromise their own safety just for a guy’s sake. In hindsight you should have left him in the rain. Needed to call a cab? Its his own damn fault for not having a cell phone or thinking ahead. The guy was a creepy asshole, and I dont think women should have to cater to creepy assholes. When I met my wife I offered to give her a ride to her car and she said no (because she didnt want to risk me being a creepy asshole). I wasnt a creepy asshole, nor do I fault her for being cautious. My own ego comes second to her personal safety. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/124 "2013-04-13T19:23:37Z")
I really don’t want to take treis’ side, I mean I really really don’t want to take his side, but reading the thread brought back memories of a woman I dated in my twenties back in the early ninties. I went on 2 dates with her and i thought she was great. Probably not long term potential as we had radically different career arcs in front of us, but we had fun together and there was chemistry; it would have been a good summer fling kind of thing. Anyway, I made moves on her a couple of times and she said no, so i backed off. This happened maybe 3 times in 2 dates and so I moved on. Plenty of fish in the sea and i was a twenty something professional in the city… Anyway, I heard from a good friend several weeks later that she had approached him and asked him if I was gay. Obviously I only have a second hand account of the conversation, but after being assured that I was not she expressed that she had given me opportunities and i had passed on them so she assumed I was. This has always confused and disappointed me because she was hot and it would have been fun and i really did try and was rebuffed. I have tried to remember the dates and what i remember is she clearly and emphatically said no, this after inviting me up to her apartment for drinks. I am not the type to push it. Cest la vie. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/125 "2013-04-13T19:30:19Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Plenty of sexual assaults and rapes are planned in advance. A man who’s just really horny does not, “in the heat of the moment”, pick out a victim and follow her, tamper with her drink, or threaten her with a weapon. These are not features of all rapes, but they’re fairly common and take at least as much deliberation as just calling an escort service. True. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/126 "2013-04-13T19:33:08Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > I really don’t want to take treis’ side, I mean I really really don’t want to take his side, but reading the thread brought back memories of a woman I dated in my twenties back in the early ninties. I went on 2 dates with her and i thought she was great. Probably not long term potential as we had radically different career arcs in front of us, but we had fun together and there was chemistry; it would have been a good summer fling kind of thing. Anyway, I made moves on her a couple of times and she said no, so i backed off. This happened maybe 3 times in 2 dates and so I moved on. Plenty of fish in the sea and i was a twenty something professional in the city… Anyway, I heard from a good friend several weeks later that she had approached him and asked him if I was gay. Obviously I only have a second hand account of the conversation, but after being assured that I was not she expressed that she had given me opportunities and i had passed on them so she assumed I was. This has always confused and disappointed me because she was hot and it would have been fun and i really did try and was rebuffed. I have tried to remember the dates and what i remember is she clearly and emphatically said no, this after inviting me up to her apartment for drinks. I am not the type to push it. Cest la vie. So fucking what, asshole? I wish people would stop telling stories like this as if they matter. There are people on earth who have played the yes/no game before. And? It’s still not okay to assume a woman is lying to you when she clearly says no and then start touching her. This could not be simpler. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/127 "2013-04-13T19:36:39Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > I really don’t want to take treis’ side, I mean I really really don’t want to take his side, No reason you should. > [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Anyway, I made moves on her a couple of times and she said no, so i backed off. This happened maybe 3 times in 2 dates and so I moved on… > > Anyway, I heard from a good friend several weeks later that she had approached him and asked him if I was gay. Now see, in this scenario _she_ was the asshole for playing bullshit games. That’s not “hard to get,” that’s “fucked in the head.” If **MeanOldLady** had written a bizarro OP called “Guys, Y U no get clues” and told essentially the same story, only lamented that the guy never made a move, we’d have the opposite of what that thread became. A bunch of people saying she had acted like an utter jerk and how the hell was he supposed to be psychic, with a few guys like **treis** backing her up saying the dude _should have realized_ and then the two of them they would become BBFF pitting everybody else. But **MOL** isn’t an asshole\* and meant what she said, so that is all moot. - Far as I can tell never having met her in person :). ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/128 "2013-04-13T19:42:01Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > So fucking what, asshole? I wish people would stop telling stories like this as if they matter. There are people on earth who have played the yes/no game before. And? It’s still not okay to assume a woman is lying to you when she clearly says no and then start touching her. This could not be simpler. I agree with you bitch, so forget I fucking posted. I was just sharing a memory that this thread brought up from 20 years ago and not trying to argue. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/129 "2013-04-13T19:47:31Z")
Jesus Christ, some of you dudes are so torn up about possibly missing out on sex that it’s like you threw away a lottery ticket for a jafrillion dollars. Twenty years later you’re still confused and disappointed because you didn’t get laid. I don’t care how much you like sex, that’s stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/130 "2013-04-13T19:47:59Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > I really don’t want to take treis’ side, I mean I really really don’t want to take his side, but reading the thread brought back memories of a woman I dated in my twenties back in the early ninties. I went on 2 dates with her and i thought she was great. Probably not long term potential as we had radically different career arcs in front of us, but we had fun together and there was chemistry; it would have been a good summer fling kind of thing. Anyway, I made moves on her a couple of times and she said no, so i backed off. This happened maybe 3 times in 2 dates and so I moved on. Plenty of fish in the sea and i was a twenty something professional in the city… Anyway, I heard from a good friend several weeks later that she had approached him and asked him if I was gay. Obviously I only have a second hand account of the conversation, but after being assured that I was not she expressed that she had given me opportunities and i had passed on them so she assumed I was. This has always confused and disappointed me because she was hot and it would have been fun and i really did try and was rebuffed. I have tried to remember the dates and what i remember is she clearly and emphatically said no, this after inviting me up to her apartment for drinks. I am not the type to push it. Cest la vie. That sucks. I’ve had women tell me no before too. But it was said with a devilish smirk on their face. Which led me to believe maybe I should keep on trying. And in these cases, I turned out to be right. I’ve also had women tell me no and I knew immediately that I should back off. IME, it’s always been blatantly obvious which direction I should go. I wonder if some guys are just clueless as to which way to go so their default position is keep on trying? (I don’t mean to imply you were clueless **L. G.** you obviously did the right thing. It just makes me wonder.) ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/131 "2013-04-13T20:19:53Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Jesus Christ, some of you dudes are so torn up about possibly missing out on sex that it’s like you threw away a lottery ticket for a jafrillion dollars. Twenty years later you’re still confused and disappointed because you didn’t get laid. > > I don’t care how much you like sex, that’s stupid. Haaaaaaaaaaa!!! ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/132 "2013-04-13T20:30:40Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > I agree with you bitch, so forget I fucking posted. I was just sharing a memory that this thread brought up from 20 years ago and not trying to argue. Sorry. I got a little defensive considering asshats have been trotting out these anecdotes as if that means it’s okay to get grabby with women after they’ve said no. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/133 "2013-04-13T20:36:50Z")
I can’t stop laughing at jsgoddess. Men keep having flashbacks of missed pussy opportunities of yore! I’m dying!! ---
**Author:** ![Carl\_Corey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Carl\_Corey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Corey)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/134 "2013-04-13T20:57:47Z")
This thread is just depressing and frustrating. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/135 "2013-04-13T21:16:47Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I can’t stop laughing at jsgoddess. Men keep having flashbacks of missed pussy opportunities of yore! I’m dying!! Personally, I’m in mourning about that one time in Boston in 1988 when I could’ve had a large Diet Coke for just ten cents more. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the person offering that upgrade to me was a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/136 "2013-04-13T21:16:56Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > I dont think women should have to compromise their own safety just for a guy’s sake. In hindsight you should have left him in the rain. Needed to call a cab? Its his own damn fault for not having a cell phone or thinking ahead. I disagree. He could have called from the bar–BUT he was walking her home, and if he called from the bar, he’d not have been able to do that. He could have called once they got there–BUT then he’d have to stand in the rain. The way the evening went, what he did, and what MOL, were both perfectly sensible up to the point where he got inside the apartment. ---
**Author:** ![sidhechaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sidhechaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sidhechaos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/137 "2013-04-13T21:21:53Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > You know, I’ve never been a “Treat them all like rapists” type, but when you’re alone with a guy who’s a foot taller than you who can’t respect your boundaries, you might just start taking the better safe than sorry route. I live in area where its not unheard for people to show up you door with a supposed “delivery” (holding an empty cardboard box) and then start shit when you to sign for it. lots of rape mentality type around, and the drug addicts Friend saw a cattle prod at the tractor supply store, bought one for car and one her house. It worked **very well** 😃 on some guy who saw her reading a book on her porch and decided she’d been advertising she wanted company otherwise she’d read in her house, right?:smack:(as opposed to say, it was a nice day in spring and she wanted to enjoy some sunshine) \*\*\*if they behave like animals treat them that way. \*\*\*he had forced his way into the house when she got up and went inside out of disgust with his comments and trying to sit down and grope her and when he tried to follow her in then nailed him with the cattleprod repeatedly and tied him up like a rodeo calf, She was explaining the process of branding to him when the cops collected him (she had the jerk convinced there was a branding iron heating on the stove and she was going to put her initials on his forehead and balls.) tractor supply sold out of cattle prods the next day, then had requests for branding irons 😃 the cops wrote down she used a stun gun, and the punks in the neighborhood mostly go elsewhere to cause trouble although truth be told she was lucky rhe cops knew what scum this was and just figured he’d got what was coming. the really sad part? this is small town out in the grids, I thought I’d be safer living out here ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/138 "2013-04-13T21:25:49Z")
> [@sidhechaos](#): > > I live in area where its not unheard for people to show up you door with a supposed “delivery” (holding an empty cardboard box) and then start shit when you to sign for it. lots of rape mentality type around, and the drug addicts > > Friend saw a cattle prod at the tractor supply store, bought one for car and one her house. It worked **very well** 😃 on some guy who saw her reading a book on her porch and decided she’d been advertising she wanted company otherwise she’d read in her house, right?:smack:(as opposed to say, it was a nice day in spring and she wanted to enjoy some sunshine) > > \*\*\*if they behave like animals treat them that way. \*\*\*he had forced his way into the house when she got up and went inside out of disgust with his comments and trying to sit down and grope her and when he tried to follow her in then nailed him with the cattleprod repeatedly and tied him up like a rodeo calf, She was explaining the process of branding to him when the cops collected him (she had the jerk convinced there was a branding iron heating on the stove and she was going to put her initials on his forehead and balls.) > > tractor supply sold out of cattle prods the next day, then had requests for branding irons 😃 > > the cops wrote down she used a stun gun, and the punks in the neighborhood mostly go elsewhere to cause trouble although truth be told she was lucky rhe cops knew what scum this was and just figured he’d got what was coming. > > the really sad part? this is small town out in the grids, I thought I’d be safer living out here Oh, you’re friends with **Broomstick**? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/139 "2013-04-13T21:27:52Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Sorry. I got a little defensive considering asshats have been trotting out these anecdotes as if that means it’s okay to get grabby with women after they’ve said no. Sorry I posted; my contribution wasn’t helpful to your thread. I do agree with you 100% for what it is worth. ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/140 "2013-04-13T22:00:04Z")
> [@sidhechaos](#): > > \*\*\*if they behave like animals treat them that way. \*\*\*he had forced his way into the house when she got up and went inside out of disgust with his comments and trying to sit down and grope her and when he tried to follow her in then nailed him with the cattleprod repeatedly and tied him up like a rodeo calf, She was explaining the process of branding to him when the cops collected him (she had the jerk convinced there was a branding iron heating on the stove and she was going to put her initials on his forehead and balls.) This is a real thing that really happened, I swear, my brother’s friend told me. No, he goes to another school, you wouldn’t know him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556.md?page=8)