# Trekkers & Trekkies: What's the deal with Berman and Braga? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 4, 2001, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342 "2001-10-04T07:05:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pezwookiee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@pezwookiee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pezwookiee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/1 "2001-10-04T07:05:56Z")
Okay, so I posted this question in the thread about rants with Star Trek series, but nobody pated much attention to it. I guess it the only way to get specific answers to my questions is to make sqpecific posts… so, here’s another Star Trek thread. Everybody seems to hate Berman and Braga. When did Berman and Braga take over the Trek franchise? I know they’re the guys behind Voyager and Enterprise, but I never really kept up with the behind-the-scenes folks of Star Trek. Can I get some specifics on what they’ve done to upset the fanbase? (I know they wussified the Borg… what else?) ---
**Author:** ![Shortie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Shortie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shortie)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/2 "2001-10-04T11:30:13Z")
They’re evil… evil… Seriously, have you ever watched Voyager? The constant technobabble, the blatant stupidity of pretty much all the characters (especially Janeway), the re-set button every single week, what happened to the Borg, Species 90210, the whole ending thing, etc, etc. Having said all that, some of the characters were interesting, the original concept was great… It’s really that it could have been so much better, and instead it was so often poor and formulaic ---
**Author:** ![lolagranola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ea5d25/32.png) [@lolagranola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lolagranola)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/3 "2001-10-04T12:27:22Z")
Well, I don’t actually hate them, but over time, I’ve learned not to like them either. I read a bit about them in one of my books about the Trek franchise, and Berman really didn’t make a good impression. The overall impression was of an orgy-loving booze hound who was only into Trek for the money. I also thought that they gave my favourite Trek series, DS9, the short end of the stick. Lemme tell ya, there won’t be any DS9 movies. It didn’t do as well financially as they wanted, so it seems as though they like to pretend it didn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/4 "2001-10-04T13:19:05Z")
Brannon Braga wrote some of my favorite TNG episodes, like “Cause and Effect.” He also did Voyager’s “Projections,” which amounts to one of the only good shows in the whole series. I now believe those were anomalies. Braga’s tendencies as a writer, and his statements as a producer, lead me to think that he and I have very different television aesthetics. This is the polite way of saying that he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Berman also has made a point of sending the Franchise into directions I don’t think it should go (for example, his edict that the Maquis and Starfleet crew of Voyager should _never_ conflict with each other). Further, both Berman and Braga seem oblivious to, or dismissive of, such criticisms, blithely going down these stupid paths. With these guys in charge, I have doubts about the future of _Enterprise_. The pilot episode was well-done, but B&B show their weakness in failing to consider the long-term. Oh, how I hope they’ve learned something. Then again, why do I care anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/5 "2001-10-04T14:05:51Z")
Many good reasons have been noted in this thread already. I will add that Braga in particular is, judging by his writing, completely ignorant of science, to the point of contempt. For example, in the _Voyager_ episode “Threshold,” it was made clear he knows nothing about physics, biology or natural selection. And just last night on _Enterprise_ that he knows nothing about linguistics. The _Voyager_ Reset Button is probably a bigger sin, though. Far from home, with no Starfleet shipyards or supply stations, the ship should have become more decrepit year by year. Duct-taped consoles. Frayed and patched uniforms. Broken armchairs, replaced by ill-matched armchairs scavenged from that junked freighter we passed two light years back. Dead crewmen replaced by this rebel Kazon or that Viidian refugee, or not replaced at all, so the surviving crew works 20 hours a day and it shows in the dark circles under their eyes and the three-day growths of beard. Instead, the ship was bright and shiny every week, and not only was the crew holding their shit together, but they even had plenty of free time to frolic in the holodeck. ---
**Author:** ![dlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@dlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dlb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/6 "2001-10-04T14:07:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pezwookiee \* > Everybody seems to hate Berman and Braga. When did Berman and Braga take over the Trek franchise? I know they’re the guys behind Voyager and Enterprise, but I never really kept up with the behind-the-scenes folks of Star Trek. Briefly: they have no genre background, they have no respect for science fiction in general, and they have no respect for the base built up by Roddenberry (others, actually) before their tenure began. They dismiss internal consistency as an outmoded concept. They treat their viewers with contempt, as conditioned morons that can be preached to as long as there is some phaser fire to keep them quiet every once in a while. They think fans are silly little pets that need to be placated as little as possible, and otherwise ignored. They think that **anything** that “sounds technical” is good script work, which has led to the origin of “treknobabble”. Braga has produced a handful of good scripts. These have the uniform property that they ignore (and **can** ignore) the basic background of the series, and would play well in a number of universes. We can hope for better in **Enterprise** , where they have their own show, they can ignore the “perfect society” that Roddenberry was trying to portray, and concentrate on their own writing and producing skills. We can hope, but I doubt it. Does that answer your question? ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/7 "2001-10-04T16:58:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dlb \* > \*\*We can hope for better in **Enterprise** , where they have their own show, they can ignore the “perfect society” that Roddenberry was trying to portray… \*\* Actually, this is what has me worried. You’d have to be pretty committed to Roddenberry’s utopian vision to be able to portray a society in the very dynamic process of transforming into it. You can’t just chuck it out the window; you use it as a springboard to show the conrast between the present-day and the utopian future. I’ll also note that the two TNG scripts for which Rick Berman takes writing credit – “Brothers” and “A Matter of Time” – are quite good. Again, it’s in the area of ongoing drama (like in a TV series) where these guys rub me the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Fool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Green\_Fool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Fool)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/8 "2001-10-04T17:27:36Z")
It seems to me that they just don’t get it. Trek needs to be continued by the fans. Not the Trekkies who wear spock ears and can recite “To be or not to be” in Klingon. But by the Trekkers who have an endearing respect and love for the universe of Star Trek. The most interesting thing is that Roddenberry was basicly one of the ones who almost killed Star Trek. The studio saw his movie ideas as moronic (which thye were) so they shoved him off to a corner. Taht’s when he decided to do Next Gen. The first two seasons of that show were horrible and not too long after that, if memory serves, he passed away. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/9 "2001-10-04T20:00:35Z")
I believe that Gene died during TNG’s third season. Many of those episodes were quite good; many sucked. But certainly the show improved tremendously after the first two seasons which are also the seasons in which Gene was heavily involved. The problem with B&B (Braga especially) is that they and the fans disagree about how important continuity is to the series. This can be seen most especially in Voyager, which by the end was producing some pretty good action/sci-fi adventures with absolutely nothing memorable about them. Comparing Trek to another fan-supported phenomenon of which I am a part, comic books, I’m not sure they’re wrong. Comics are fantastically tied to past continuity and are heavily ghettoized. It may be true that Star Trek wouldn’t have survived this long without B&B looking outward, but their reach frequently alienates the true fans who know that the Federation had never heard of the Borg until 20 years after Seven of Nine’s parents were suppossed to have gone searching for them; the ones that can point to at least four separate occasions in which Voyager got 10 years closer to home despite the fact that they keep running into the same races. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/10 "2001-10-04T21:48:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheeGrumpy \* > \*\*I’ll also note that the two TNG scripts for which Rick Berman takes writing credit – “Brothers” and “A Matter of Time” – are quite good. \*\* What’s “A Matter of Time” about? I’m sure I’ve seen it, but the title doesn’t ring a bell. (“Brothers” is indeed good – I just saw it yesterday.) As noted, Braga’s also written some really good (as well as some bad) TNG episodes, and they tend to have a few things in common – they’re high-concept, plot-driven sf that leans toward the weird. (He also shows a marked penchant for blowing up the Enterprise. ;)) I wouldn’t want a steady diet of his brand of episode, though, even the good ones. And his problems as an executive producer have been well-documented enough by the other posters in this thread that I don’t need to repeat them. Instead, I’ll leave you with an MST3K quote which applies pretty well to B&B: “I was sitting at home one night shortly before the filming of _Hobgoblins_ when I received an unsolicited call requesting I try their service, wherein they replace my brains with rat droppings. It was a good deal, so I said yes.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![the\_coffeehood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9dc877/32.png) [@the\_coffeehood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_coffeehood)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/11 "2001-10-04T22:29:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dlb \* > \*\* > We can hope for better in _Enterprise_, where they have their own show, they can ignore the “perfect society” that Roddenberry was trying to portray, and concentrate on their own writing and producing skills. We can hope, but I doubt it. \*\* I have to agree with **TheeGrumpy**. See [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=90928) for more… ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/12 "2001-10-05T00:22:48Z")
Fiver wrote: > [@](#): > > For example, in the _Voyager_ episode “Threshold,” it was made clear he knows nothing about physics, biology or natural selection. To say nothing of continuity. If the crew of the _U.S.S. Voyager_ had discovered how to move at infinite speed, with the only side effect being that the passengers slowly turn into salamanders, and even this side effect can be cured by the Good Doctor’s hypospray, then **why** didn’t they use this technology to get home? Why didn’t they even send **one** person home in the Warp 10 Shuttle with a note taped to his uniform saying, “I’m from the Voyager, we’re alive but stuck in the Delta Quadrant, please inject me with the hypospray found in this vessel’s glove compartment”?! ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/13 "2001-10-05T02:36:28Z")
True dat, **tracer** , true dat. ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkers-trekkies-whats-the-deal-with-berman-and-braga/85342/14 "2001-10-05T13:33:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cliffy \* > **I believe that Gene died during TNG’s third season. Many of those episodes were quite good; many sucked. But certainly the show improved tremendously after the first two seasons which are also the seasons in which Gene was heavily involved.** Fifth season, actually. That’s why the “Unification” episodes carry the dedication to GR. I remember, because he also died shortly before the premiere of ST6 in 1991 – the 25th Anniversary of Trek’s launch. I agree, along with Green Fool, that GR was not exactly the best influence on his franchise. I am not an orthodox Roddenberrian, and any dispute I have with B&B is not because of any abandonment of GR’s ideals. Actually, it’s pretty amazing how closely they adhered to them for as long as they did, given Berman’s “whacky doodle” reception. Indeed, aside from the initial vision of the show, GR tended to be too didactic and, quite honestly, cornball for the show. Generally, the degree of GR’s involvement in the franchise over the years is proportional to its sucking. Still, there is a vision at the core of Trek, and it would be prudent for the producers to adhere to it. Cliffy, I disagree that continuity is a trait of comicbooks; it is also the hallmark of good dramatic TV. The fact that Trek was originally conceived as an anthology-style show has made it an uncomfortable fit in this post-“Hill Street Blues” era. Katisha, **“A Matter of Time”** was a lightweight episode from the 5th season. A time-travelling historian who claims to be from the distant future observes the crew during a crucial mission. It was originally conceived as a guest shot for Robin Williams, but Matt (Max Headroom) Frewer ultimately did the role. The result is a lot of fun, nearly akin to the 3rd seaon’s “Deja Q”.