# Trekkies and Child Molestors Correlated?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 5, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545 "2005-05-05T16:03:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/1 "2005-05-05T16:03:08Z")
In [this blog entry](http://www.corante.com/importance/archives/2005/05/04/star_trek_and_pedophilia_claim_followup.php), there’s a claim that the _L.A. Times_ reported that:
> [@](#):
>
> …of the more than one hundred arrested in the past four years by the Toronto Sex Crimes Unit Child Exploitation Section “all but one” were “hard-core Trekkie[s]”.
There now appears to be some back-tracking on the ecact numbers, but surprising firmness in sticking to the thrust of the claim.
What the hell? Is there any conclusion that can validly be drawn from this data?
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/2 "2005-05-05T16:09:22Z")
I’ll believe it when I see the source article. And how do you define a “hard core trekkie”?
---
### Author:  [@modernhamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/modernhamlet)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/3 "2005-05-05T16:16:20Z")
I remember reading this in the original article and being baffled by it as well. At the time, I just guessed that the correlation had something to do with the TSCU’s standard tactics happening to catch a odd subset of pedophiles, namely StarTrek fans.
And yes, knowing their definition of “hard core Trekkie” would be good, but even if it’s “guys that kinda like Star Trek”, I’d still find it odd.
---
### Author:  [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/4 "2005-05-05T16:18:17Z")
I would also want to see how the Toronto Sex Crimes Unit Child Exploitation Section was operating. How are they finding people? Are they posing as 13yr olds on chatgroups aimed as science fiction fans? Maybe they are starting up conversions online with questions about Star Trek.
---
### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/5 "2005-05-05T16:50:29Z")
All the Catholic priests arrested for buggering little boys were Christians. What conclusion should we draw?
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/6 "2005-05-05T16:53:05Z")
Is it possible that people are misinterpreting “where no man has gone before”?
Daniel
[sub]going straight to hell[/sub]
---
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/7 "2005-05-05T16:57:09Z")
Trekkies having sex with children? I don’t know. I’m skeptical of any story about Trekkies having sex.
---
### Author:  [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/8 "2005-05-05T17:03:03Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> I’ll believe it when I see the source article. And how do you define a “hard core trekkie”?
It’s republished on another site owned by the Tribune, [here](http://ktla.trb.com/news/nationworld/world/ktla-fg-photo27apr27-lat,0,822396.story?coll=ktla-news-1) . Not a lot of meat on the charge, though – it was a tiny aside in a larger article. The money quote:
> [@](#):
>
> On one wall is a “Star Trek” poster with investigators’ faces substituted for the Starship Enterprise crew. But even that alludes to a dark fact of their work: All but one of the offenders they have arrested in the last four years was a hard-core Trekkie.
>
> Det. Constable Warren Bulmer slips on a Klingon sash and shield they confiscated in a recent raid. “It has something to do with a fantasy world where mutants and monsters have power and where the usual rules don’t apply,” Bulmer reflects. “But beyond that, I can’t really explain it.”
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/9 "2005-05-05T17:11:52Z")
Wow. That Bulmer quote shows that he _really_ doesn’t get it. In most fantasy worlds, the usual rules DO apply, in much harsher fashions than in the real world. The point of most roleplaying games is that evil is obvious, blatant, ugly, and unsuccessful. In Star Trek, the government is enlightened, following the rules of society leads to good results, and fantasies (the holodeck) become deadly if they break out of their narrow restrictions.
If anything, fantasy worlds are reactionary: they very rarely flip traditional morality on its head.
Daniel
---
### Author:  [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/10 "2005-05-05T17:26:04Z")
[Maybe there’s something to it.](http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2002-01-30/cover.html):
> [@](#):
>
> Ed Kramer has rubbed elbows with Alice Cooper, swapped horror stories with Clive Barker, treated Timothy Leary to a trip and hung out with half the cast of Star Wars.
>
> He’s played host to Xena, Conan, the Toxic Avenger and a star cruiser’s worth of Klingons.
>
> After a decade of intergalactic networking, inspired genre-hopping and ruthless gamesmanship, the co-founder of Dragon\*Con was the unlikely but undisputed master of an expanding universe populated by Trekkies, comic book geeks, Buffy fanatics, goth-mongers and legions of disaffected adolescents.
>
> Yet while he was boldly building up his fantastic empire, Kramer was shadowed by persistent rumors. The veteran dealmaker and accomplished celebrity-schmoozer often was seen in the company of a revolving troupe of young boys.
The article has some interesting analysis.
I can see where a molester might gravitate toward a community where a lot of disaffected young boys might be found. Molesters do tend to insinuate themselves into situations where they can be in contact with their prey: youth sports, scouting, etc.
Of course, saying that some molesters may gravitate to the world of science fiction conventions is not the same as saying that science fiction conventioneers tend to be molesters. (The point **Fear Itself** is making.)
---
### Author:  [@Kearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearse)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/11 "2005-05-05T17:50:02Z")
> [@modernhamlet](#):
>
> I remember reading this in the original article and being baffled by it as well. At the time, I just guessed that the correlation had something to do with the TSCU’s standard tactics happening to catch a odd subset of pedophiles, namely StarTrek fans.
>
> And yes, knowing their definition of “hard core Trekkie” would be good, but even if it’s “guys that kinda like Star Trek”, I’d still find it odd.
In the event of “guys that kinda like Star Trek”, they could rephrase the theme to “guys that like (insert tv show here)” that reproduces the same age, sex, race demographic and draw conclusions as well.
You guys can correlate anything with anything if you try hard enough.
In a recent poll on SMDB, George Bush has resounding praise and support due to the fact that many posts have his name mentioned!! Be sly enough or vague with a definition and there ya go.
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/12 "2005-05-05T17:53:49Z")
I can actually see the way a correlation might work:
Folks attracted to the black-and-white morality of the fantasy genre\* may well be folks who grew up suffering under bullying and other injustice. They may perceive themselves as relatively powerless against the world’s ogres and trolls (read: football players and other jocks), and retreat to a fantasy world where they can rule supreme, where they, representing all that’s good and right, can triumph.
Some of the people that retreat to this world ALSO might not be satisfied with demonstrating their power in a fantasy world: they might also have a need to demonstrate it in reality. However, since they see themselves as powerless, they’ve got to find someone even more powerless over whom they can lord their superiority. Which is where children enter the picture.
Total speculation, but it makes more sense than the detective’s, I think.
Daniel
- Note that while this is an oversimplification (see Le Guin, Donaldson, et al), it’s an oversimplification that holds true through most of Star Trek and other mainstream fantasy
---
### Author:  [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/13 "2005-05-05T18:54:20Z")
I have often thought that there is something _safe_ about the nicely ordered escapism of TV sci-fi, which is perhaps why it appeals to those who find social situations in the all-too-real world a little awkward. _Extroversion_ might be correlated with, say, dancing and _assault_, thus a headline “Violence correlated with dancing” might similarly appear.
---
### Author:  [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/14 "2005-05-05T19:21:21Z")
I think we can draw the definite conclusion that Star Trek is interesting.
What? What conclusion do \*you \* want me to draw. :dubious:
---
### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/15 "2005-05-05T19:55:29Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#):
>
> All the Catholic priests arrested for buggering little boys were Christians. What conclusion should we draw?
Heh-heh. Don’t get me started.
---
### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/16 "2005-05-05T19:58:01Z")
Pedophiles and trekkies have the commonality of being misanthropic and emotionally stunted. They might be going after young children because they are more closely their emotional, if not intellectual and physical equals.
Personally I don’t like Star Trek because I think the writing is juvenile and the characters are flat and uninteresting. I liked it more when I was younger though.
It wouldn’t surprise me that a pedophile is a trekkie. Not that I think a trekkie is more likely to be a pedophile, only that I think a pedophile is more likely to be a trekkie.
To use the SDMB as an example, I have seen a lot of the geeks of the SDMB who suddenly found a community of their peers in the Straight Dope going forth into social gatherings and running up and just grabbing women’s breasts without permission. While it’s a lesser form of the behavior it’s an example of the stunted emotional growth that keeps people from socializing.
Then again there are probably a fair number of different types of pedophile as well. But if we look at Michael Jackson, he’s very trekkie-like even if Star Trek isn’t his particular fetish.
Erek
---
### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/17 "2005-05-05T20:12:24Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#):
>
> In Star Trek, the government is enlightened, following the rules of society leads to good results, and fantasies (the holodeck) become deadly if they break out of their narrow restrictions.
Sure, but isn’t it possible that a molestor might skew such visions to serve their own world view? The Star Trek philosophy of IDIC, Infinate Diversity through Infinite Combinations for the less nerdy among us, could certainly attract those who feel marginalized by society for whatever reason. Maybe pedophiles see themselves as in the right and an “enlightened” government would accept them for who they are. After all, IDIC applies right?
Disturbed individuals don’t always see things the same way others do. Jeff Dahmer was trying to build his own little throne like the Emperor from Return of the Jedi. I’m not entirely convinced that a large number of pedophiles might be attracted to Star Trek fandom but I wouldn’t be entirely surprised either. Star Trek has a fanatical fan base that tends to be very accepting of almost anyone who shares their hobby with the same level of enthusiasm.
Marc
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/18 "2005-05-05T21:09:22Z")
> [@](#):
>
> On one wall is a “Star Trek” poster with investigators’ faces substituted for the Starship Enterprise crew. But even that alludes to a dark fact of their work: All but one of the offenders they have arrested in the last four years was a hard-core Trekkie.
>
> Det. Constable Warren Bulmer slips on a Klingon sash and shield they confiscated in a recent raid. “It has something to do with a fantasy world where mutants and monsters have power and where the usual rules don’t apply,” Bulmer reflects. “But beyond that, I can’t really explain it.”
This passage has chilling echoes of the whole “Dungeons & Dragons are Satanic mindtraps that will lead your children to kill each other in the sewers with lead pipes” hysteria of the 80s.
---
### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/19 "2005-05-06T03:10:00Z")
> [@jayjay](#):
>
> This passage has chilling echoes of the whole “Dungeons & Dragons are Satanic mindtraps that will lead your children to kill each other in the sewers with lead pipes” hysteria of the 80s.
Hey, don’t criticize Tom Hanks! 😃
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545/20 "2005-05-06T03:32:06Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Hey, don’t criticize Tom Hanks! 😃
And you get it in one! Yes, I was thinking Rona Jaffe there…
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trekkies-and-child-molestors-correlated/302545.md?page=2)