# Tresspassing on property you own **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 4, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994 "2009-12-04T16:12:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/1 "2009-12-04T16:12:34Z")
There is a certain amount of recreational outrage to this, but I figured it was too lame for The Pit. [Man arrested for tresspassing on his own property.](http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/153801) ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/2 "2009-12-04T16:18:05Z")
Sorry, got that from the Drudge Report, and I can’t get to it now without a login. ETA: I flushed my cache and deleted cookies, so I can get to it now. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/3 "2009-12-04T17:43:16Z")
You can get arrested for all kinds of things. That doesn’t mean you are guilty of them; the judge may throw it out. But, it does sound like he should have been charged with something else. It also sounds like a can of worms, regarding the status of the easement. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/4 "2009-12-04T18:58:04Z")
Harpo Marx said in his autobiography that he was once arrested for impersonating Harpo Marx. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/5 "2009-12-04T20:08:01Z")
For those who don’t want to register with the Duluth Whatever: > **[Man arrested for trespassing on his own land](https://www.twincities.com/2009/12/03/man-arrested-for-trespassing-on-his-own-land/)** > > SUPERIOR, Wis. — A northwestern Wisconsin man who confronted a work crew building a pipeline across his land was Wednesday arrested for trespassing on his own property. Jeremy Engelking of Su… > [@](#): > > SUPERIOR, Wis. — A northwestern Wisconsin man who confronted a work crew building a pipeline across his land was Wednesday arrested for trespassing on his own property. > > Jeremy Engelking of Superior is expected to appear in Douglas County Circuit Court today. > > The 27-year-old Engelking told workers they had no right to be on his property because he hadn’t been compensated by the pipeline builder, Enbridge Energy Partners, for an easement. > > A Douglas County sheriff’s deputy arrived on the scene as the confrontation continued. Engelking said the deputy drew his Taser gun and ordered him to the ground. Engelking was handcuffed, taken to jail and later posted bond. > > The confrontation is the latest episode in a long-running dispute between Enbridge, Engelking and his father, who owns property next door. And: > [@](#): > > Jeremy Engelking will appear in Douglas County court this afternoon to face a trespassing charge. But here’s the kicker: The Superior man allegedly trespassed on his own property. > > Engelking, 27, aimed to hunt deer Wednesday morning when he noticed a pipeline crew on his land. He hopped on his ATV and told workers they had no right to be on his property because he had received no compensation from Enbridge Energy Partners L.P. for an easement. > > Engelking said workers told him he was in an unsafe place and asked him to come to an equipment staging area, where he continued to argue his case. > > But just as he was turning to leave, Engelking said an officer from the Douglas County Sheriff’s Department arrived on the scene and approached with a Taser drawn. > > “He ordered me to ‘get down on the ground now!’ And he said that I was being arrested for trespassing,” Engelking said. > > When Engelking protested, pointing out that he was on his own property, he said Sgt. Robert Smith told him: “It doesn’t matter. You’re going to jail. You can tell it to a judge tomorrow.” > > Engelking offered no resistance, but Smith placed him in handcuffs then transported him to the Douglas County Jail. After posting a $200 bail bond, Engelking was released that afternoon. He also had to pay about another $100 to recover his impounded ATV. Which why I’m guessing that it’s confronting the work crew while in possession of a hunting rifle that got him arrested, regardless of the actual charge. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/6 "2009-12-04T21:41:17Z")
Now, I don’t know all the facts of the case, but I think the Superior police department may have behaved stupidly. ---
**Author:** ![palindromemordnilap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/db5fbb/32.png) [@palindromemordnilap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palindromemordnilap)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/7 "2009-12-04T21:45:53Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Which why I’m guessing that it’s confronting the work crew while in possession of a hunting rifle that got him arrested, regardless of the actual charge. I missed the part in the story where he had his gun in his hand. In the vehicle would be a different thing altogether. I also kind of wonder why an officer would approach with his Taser out if the guy was holding a rifle–that doesn’t seem like a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/8 "2009-12-09T22:28:28Z")
> [@palindromemordnilap](#): > > I missed the part in the story where he had his gun in his hand. In the vehicle would be a different thing altogether. I also kind of wonder why an officer would approach with his Taser out if the guy was holding a rifle–that doesn’t seem like a good idea. In fact, it pretty much proves they didn’t actually think there was a danger of him using it. And I doubt, in that jurisdiction, that brandishing a gun is illegal in that situation–they would have arrested him for that if they could. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/9 "2009-12-10T17:24:50Z")
The trespassing charge was because the utility company had established a work zone on his property. So he was trespassing in the work zone not trespassing on his property, even though the two were the same piece of ground at the time. And that seems like a reasonable idea - a work zone is an unsafe area to have people moving around in and it’s reasonable to ban people from entering it. Is this any different from the fire department prohibiting you from entering your home when it’s on fire? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/10 "2009-12-10T18:34:05Z")
Not sure about Wisconsin law, but in Virginia, I think the guy would be safe. A defendant who can show a bona fide claim of right as an affirmative defense is not guilty of trespass. “[A] bona fide claim of right is a sincere, although perhaps mistaken, good faith belief that one has some legal right to be on the property. The claim need not be one of title or ownership, but it must rise to the level of authorization.” (Quoting _Reed v. Commonwealth_, 6 Va. App. 65 (1988)). ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/11 "2009-12-10T19:06:25Z")
Why the heck was his ATV impounded? ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/12 "2009-12-10T19:15:35Z")
I Googled ‘Jeremy Engelking’ just now, and saw nothing new. Anyone know how things went with the judge? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing-on-property-you-own/519994/13 "2009-12-11T18:13:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Not sure about Wisconsin law, but in Virginia, I think the guy would be safe. A defendant who can show a bona fide claim of right as an affirmative defense is not guilty of trespass. “[A] bona fide claim of right is a sincere, although perhaps mistaken, good faith belief that one has some legal right to be on the property. The claim need not be one of title or ownership, but it must rise to the level of authorization.” (Quoting Reed v. Commonwealth, 6 Va. App. 65 (1988)). Does the decision make the distinction between somebody who is unaware of a law and somebody who disputes the validity of that law? It appears Engelking had been disputing Enbridge’s access to his land. This would appear to make it difficult for him to argue he was unaware that they were asserting a legal claim to be on his property. But if Engelking is allowed to base his defense of a supposed “sincere good faith belief” that the law, while it exists, is wrong then how can any trespassing law hold up in a Virginia court?