# tresspassing **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 29, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526 "2001-09-29T21:30:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kevin\_Partida](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Kevin\_Partida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevin_Partida)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/1 "2001-09-29T21:30:34Z")
I grew up under the impression that if someone you do not want on your property (for any reason) steps onto your land you can shoot (and kill) them. Is this true (in texas specifically)? ---
**Author:** ![annalamerino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@annalamerino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annalamerino)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2001, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/2 "2001-09-29T21:38:26Z")
No. It’s murder, unless you can claim self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2001, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/3 "2001-09-29T22:53:04Z")
I wouldn’t want to be a mailman delivering a bill to your house then (or subsequently a cop trying to arrest you for the murder of the mailman). :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2001, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/4 "2001-09-29T23:05:33Z")
You can use varying degrees of force to pursuade someone to leave your land, depending on the state. You cannot just go and bump someone off because they stepped over the fence, however. You would have to be able to prove that the person made you feel your life was in danger. ---
**Author:** ![warmgun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecccb3/32.png) [@warmgun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/warmgun)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2001, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/5 "2001-09-29T23:24:24Z")
…well, actually, once a Texan… Anyway, yes, _technically_ it has to be self-defense in Texas. However having grown up there I can assure you some municipalities define self-defense rather loosely. A couple of examples I recall from the news in Dallas: A man comes home to find his house being ransacked. He gets his shotgun, goes room to room and finally finds a 13 yr old boy cowering in a closet. Shoots and kills him. Doesn’t even get taken in for questioning. A more extreme example. A man gets shot and killed while getting robbed. His best friend since grade school, overcome with grief, hires a PI to find the guy (who had since fled to Houston). He drives to Houston, waits in the parking lot of the bar where the perp was drinking, shoots and kills him in the parking lot when he comes out. Gets off with the self-defense plea. All that grief and all. No, I don’t have cites. This is not _that_ uncommon. Just check out the Dallas Morning News, I’m sure you’ll find some examples. And you don’t even want to know about deep east Texas. I do not condone these acts, just reporting in. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/6 "2001-09-30T11:23:55Z")
In Texas you can use deadly force in self defense, in defense of a third person, to prevent someone from comitting Aggravated Sexual Assault, Robbery, Aggravated Robbery, Arson, Buglary, Theft during the nighttime, and criminal mischief during the nighttime. The law also adds that you can shoot to prevent a person from fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery or theft durig the nighttime, and from escpaing with the property if you believe you cant prtoect or recover the property any other way. Tresspassing is only tresspassing in this state if the owner, or someone with the apparant athority of the owner tells them to leave, or has made it know to them that they are not permitted on the property. Needless to say, you still cant shoot them for coming onto your property. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/7 "2001-09-30T11:33:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > \*\* > The law also adds that you can shoot to prevent a person from fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery or theft durig the nighttime, and from escpaing with the property if you believe you cant prtoect or recover the property any other way. > \*\* So, you get to be judge, jury, and executioner? That’s kinda disturbing… Do these laws lead to less burglary in Texas than in other states? ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/8 "2001-09-30T12:53:34Z")
Here in the UK the law is completely different. With very few exceptions trespass is a civil offence. For example , if somebody takes up residence on your land,your only recourse to remove them is by suing them in court or taking out a court order. Similarly only the minimum of force can be used if you catch a burgler in your house. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/9 "2001-09-30T14:04:46Z")
Where was the incident a few years ago where the homeowner shot and killed the drunk Japanese exchange student? Apparently the student had come to the wrong house for a party and the homeowner was having trouble making him leave the doorstep “felt threatened” and shot him. IIRC he got off. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/10 "2001-09-30T16:05:22Z")
In Texas…if you catch your wife/husband in bed with another…which one are you allowed to shoot? ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/11 "2001-09-30T19:15:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Green Bean \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > > \*\* > > The law also adds that you can shoot to prevent a person from fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery or theft durig the nighttime, and from escpaing with the property if you believe you cant prtoect or recover the property any other way. > > \*\* > > So, you get to be judge, jury, and executioner? That’s kinda disturbing… > Do these laws lead to less burglary in Texas than in other states? \*\* Don’t know. I should point out, that even if you are not guilty of a crime for shooting that 14 year old kid running down the street with your plastic lawn flamingo at 2 in the morning, the kids parents are gonna sue you into poverty for the rest of your life. In other words, it wont be a defense in civil court, and although you may get off in criminal, the legal fees will definately be more than the flamingo. The cops, around here, use this to keep people from actually using this. They will prosecute you, even though they know you will get off. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/12 "2001-09-30T20:27:13Z")
It does beg a related question. What if I chose to post those bright orange signs that say, \*\* POSTED LAND. THIS LAND IS POSTED AND PROTECTED BY IT’S OWNER AND NO TRESPASS IS ALLOWED. PRIVATE PROPERTY. \*\* and so on. Can I shoot someone for trespassing AFTER those signs are posted at reasonable ( read: legally specified) limits? I’m a devout pacifist and so this is a purely intellectual question, I’m not in the sub-sub-sub basement, cramming speedloaders full. Does it vary state by state? I’d think so. County by county?I’m tempted to call the local State Police and ask them but in this environment, I think they’d send a car over with a coupla troopers to do a quick search… Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![Corrvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@Corrvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corrvin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/13 "2001-09-30T20:38:19Z")
\<\\> Both. You have to shoot both to get away with it. You don’t have to KILL both of them, mind you, but the “heat of passion” defense depends on your shooting both of them. IANAL, and that stuff, just heard that from a Texan friend who chose the divorce route instead, and his lawyer joked to him about the situation above. Corr ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/14 "2001-09-30T20:43:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cartooniverse \* > \*\*It does beg a related question. What if I chose to post those bright orange signs that say, \*\* POSTED LAND. THIS LAND IS POSTED AND PROTECTED BY IT’S OWNER AND NO TRESPASS IS ALLOWED. PRIVATE PROPERTY. \*\* and so on. > > Can I shoot someone for trespassing AFTER those signs are posted at reasonable ( read: legally specified) limits? I’m a devout pacifist and so this is a purely intellectual question, I’m not in the sub-sub-sub basement, cramming speedloaders full. > > Does it vary state by state? I’d think so. County by county?I’m tempted to call the local State Police and ask them but in this environment, I think they’d send a car over with a coupla troopers to do a quick search… > > Cartooniverse \*\* In Texas, no you cant. All you can do is call the cops and have them arrest them, and IIRC posting does not constitute a trespass warning, you have to notify them personally. However, I believe a locked fence does constitute a warning, an you can charge someone with tresspass who climbs a fence to get on your property.(I dont hae a cite for this, but that is how it was explained to me). You still cant shoot them though, just call the cops to pick them up. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/15 "2001-09-30T20:44:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Corrvin \* > \*\*\<\\> > > Both. You have to shoot both to get away with it. You don’t have to KILL both of them, mind you, but the “heat of passion” defense depends on your shooting both of them. > > IANAL, and that stuff, just heard that from a Texan friend who chose the divorce route instead, and his lawyer joked to him about the situation above. > Corr \*\* Theres nothing in my copy of the Texas Penal code that says this is true, but IANAL. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/16 "2001-09-30T23:48:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > \*\* Theres nothing in my copy of the Texas Penal code that says this is true, but IANAL. \*\* Oh, that’s because **Corrvin** was quoting the **Texas Penile Code** - the book that pertains to Adultery charges… > [@](#): > > **Section THX-1138, Paragraph 90125: Any spouse who in the process of discovery of the first hand does witness active adultery- including but not limited to intercourse, outracourse, petting, fondling, caressing, stimulating or otherwise behaving in a manner indicative of intimacy- committed by said spouse upon or with another party shall in turn be allowed two fair shots ranging not beyond 10 linear feet. Self-defense, in addition to the new defense of _Heinous Moral Outrage_ is permissible.** Any other questions? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Greenkeys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dec6dc/32.png) [@Greenkeys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenkeys)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2001, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/17 "2001-10-01T00:19:50Z")
In The UK, by law you can use “reasonable force” to restrain a person illegally trespassing on your property until the police arrive. This is known as a “Citocen’s Arrest” If the person in question threatens your life, technically you could kill them in self defence. You would be arrested and detained on the spot and would have to go to court and pleed “Involuntary Manslaughter”. You would have to prove that you were acting in self defence. Please forgive my spelling, but I am dyslexic. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2001, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/18 "2001-10-01T00:21:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cartooniverse \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > > \*\* Theres nothing in my copy of the Texas Penal code that says this is true, but IANAL. \*\* > > Oh, that’s because **Corrvin** was quoting the **Texas Penile Code** - the book that pertains to Adultery charges… > > > [@](#): > > > > **Section THX-1138, Paragraph 90125: Any spouse who in the process of discovery of the first hand does witness active adultery- including but not limited to intercourse, outracourse, petting, fondling, caressing, stimulating or otherwise behaving in a manner indicative of intimacy- committed by said spouse upon or with another party shall in turn be allowed two fair shots ranging not beyond 10 linear feet. Self-defense, in addition to the new defense of _Heinous Moral Outrage_ is permissible.** > > Any other questions? 😃 \*\* My bad… ---
**Author:** ![breaknrun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@breaknrun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breaknrun)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2001, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/19 "2001-10-01T00:34:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*Where was the incident a few years ago where the homeowner shot and killed the drunk Japanese exchange student? Apparently the student had come to the wrong house for a party and the homeowner was having trouble making him leave the doorstep “felt threatened” and shot him. IIRC he got off. \*\* That was Rodney Peairs in Louisiana. They have a more relaxed “shoot the burglar” law than most states. It should be noted that even though Rodney was aquitted on criminal charges, he was sued practically into poverty in civil court. Some states protect a shooter from civil suit if the shooting is justified but LA isn’t one of them. I thought I read somewhere, perhaps on rec.guns, that Texas had recently passed such a law. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2001, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526/20 "2001-10-01T00:37:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by breaknrun \* > \*\* I thought I read somewhere, perhaps on rec.guns, that Texas had recently passed such a law. \*\* If anybody can find a cite on this, I would sure be interested in seeing that. Its quite possible. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tresspassing/84526.md?page=2)