# ...Trevor Noah. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 27, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650 "2018-07-27T00:56:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/221 "2018-08-03T20:23:38Z")
Just put him on ignore and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/222 "2018-08-03T21:30:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The “yet” - the non bigoted answer would be “that’s a bigoted stereotype” or “yes, there are plenty of lovely aboriginal people”. His “yet” implies that it’s a reasonable belief. And I think that’s the basis of the joke. I don’t understand your reasoning here. He’s talking to the bigots who presumably don’t think there are any attractive aboriginal women, right? How is acknowledging their belief implying that it’s a reasonable belief. Am I implying that when I acknowledge a Scientologist’s belief in Xenu? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/223 "2018-08-03T21:37:38Z")
Missed the edit window by seconds: How about when I acknowledge a person’s belief that homosexuality is evil and gays are going to hell and should be killed? Am I implying that’s a reasonable belief by acknowledging that they hold it? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/224 "2018-08-03T21:40:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I don’t understand your reasoning here. He’s talking to the bigots who presumably don’t think there are any attractive aboriginal women, right? How is acknowledging their belief implying that it’s a reasonable belief. Am I implying that when I acknowledge a Scientologist’s belief in Xenu? Because he didn’t challenge that belief in any way, and in fact seemed to legitimize it with the “yet” and porn star thing. It was meant as a joke, and I don’t think he really believes that, but IMO he was semi-legitimizing a very ugly and bigoted stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/225 "2018-08-03T21:42:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Missed the edit window by seconds: > > How about when I acknowledge a person’s belief that homosexuality is evil and gays are going to hell and should be killed? Am I implying that’s a reasonable belief by acknowledging that they hold it? :dubious: If they said “I haven’t met any gays who deserve to live” and you said “yet… And maybe it’s not all about deserving to live… Maybe they got some amazing skills that you could use”, or something like that, you’d be implying legitimacy to their bigoted belief. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/226 "2018-08-03T22:13:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because he didn’t challenge that belief in any way, and in fact seemed to legitimize it with the “yet” and porn star thing. It was meant as a joke, and I don’t think he really believes that, but IMO he was semi-legitimizing a very ugly and bigoted stereotype. I’m sorry, but I don’t see it that way. “Yet” is directly challenging them, their experiences and their perceptions. Acknowledging something does not mean endorsing it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/227 "2018-08-03T22:19:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If they said “I haven’t met any gays who deserve to live” and you said “yet… And maybe it’s not all about deserving to live… Maybe they got some amazing skills that you could use”, or something like that, you’d be implying legitimacy to their bigoted belief. No, I wouldn’t. “So you believe in Xenu” doesn’t endorse their belief in Xenu. “So you think gays should be shot” doesn’t endorse the idea that gays should be shot. Acknowledging something does not amount to endorsing it, legitimizing it, or implying it is reasonable. “So you don’t think you should have to bake a cake for a gay wedding” doesn’t imply that it’s reasonable; it simply acknowledges that the belief exists. Do you think there are people who think there are no attractive Aboriginal women? Do you think this prejudice exists in real life? How is acknowledging their belief legitimizing it? Are you legitimizing a Klan member’s racism when you discuss it with them? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/228 "2018-08-03T22:34:22Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, I wouldn’t. > > “So you believe in Xenu” doesn’t endorse their belief in Xenu. “So you think gays should be shot” doesn’t endorse the idea that gays should be shot. Acknowledging something does not amount to endorsing it, legitimizing it, or implying it is reasonable. > > “So you don’t think you should have to bake a cake for a gay wedding” doesn’t imply that it’s reasonable; it simply acknowledges that the belief exists. > > Do you think there are people who think there are no attractive Aboriginal women? Do you think this prejudice exists in real life? How is acknowledging their belief legitimizing it? Are you legitimizing a Klan member’s racism when you discuss it with them? He did more than just acknowledge it in the joke. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/229 "2018-08-03T22:49:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He did more than just acknowledge it in the joke. I disagree, and you’re not refuting my argument, you’re simply restating your position. “Yet” directly challenges the bigot’s attitude, perceptions and ideas. Look at this example: “All ice cream sucks! I’ve never tried a flavor of ice cream that I like!” “Have you tried pistachio?” That exchange in no way validates the claim that “all ice cream sucks”; in fact, it directly challenges it. Do you disagree? Also, the sentence “Women from all races can be beautiful” directly contradicts what you claim he’s implying. What do you think the point of the joke was? Was it “your bigoted perceptions are perfectly reasonable and valid”, or was it something else? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/230 "2018-08-03T23:02:29Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I disagree, and you’re not refuting my argument, you’re simply restating your position. > > “Yet” directly challenges the bigot’s attitude, perceptions and ideas. Look at this example: > > “All ice cream sucks! I’ve never tried a flavor of ice cream that I like!” > “Have you tried pistachio?” > > That exchange in no way validates the claim that “all ice cream sucks”; in fact, it directly challenges it. Do you disagree? > > Also, the sentence “Women from all races can be beautiful” directly contradicts what you claim he’s implying. What do you think the point of the joke was? Was it “your bigoted perceptions are perfectly reasonable and valid”, or was it something else? I disagree, your example is fundamentally different and uncomparable, IMO. The first sentence in the joke doesn’t invalidate the bigoted part (and suggesting that looks aren’t everything directly implies support for the bigoted belief about looks). I think the point of the joke was to get a laugh with a weird and non challenging response to a bigoted belief. It’s okay to disagree. Sometimes people disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/231 "2018-08-04T00:40:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I disagree, your example is fundamentally different and uncomparable, IMO. The first sentence in the joke doesn’t invalidate the bigoted part (and suggesting that looks aren’t everything directly implies support for the bigoted belief about looks). I think the point of the joke was to get a laugh with a weird and non challenging response to a bigoted belief. > > It’s okay to disagree. Sometimes people disagree. I didn’t say it wasn’t okay to disagree; what a weird non-sequitur. Unless this is a passive-aggressive way of attempting to end the conversation; was it? If it was not, perhaps you could explain in what way you think pointing out a possible exception is confirmation of reasonableness? You aren’t being at all clear on this point, prolly because you have “yet” to try and address this: “yet” directly challenges the bigot’s attitude, perceptions and ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/232 "2018-08-04T00:50:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the point of the joke was to get a laugh with a weird and non challenging response to a bigoted belief. I forgot to address this in my previous post. I think your notion of the point of the joke is not at all connected to the words present in the joke or the spirit of the delivery. To think that this joke is doing anything other than poking fun at bigots and their attitudes is, IMO, not at all supported by the actual words used nor the sentiments overtly expressed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/233 "2018-08-04T01:00:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I forgot to address this in my previous post. > > I think your notion of the point of the joke is not at all connected to the words present in the joke or the spirit of the delivery. To think that this joke is doing anything other than poking fun at bigots and their attitudes is, IMO, not at all supported by the actual words used nor the sentiments overtly expressed. Okay, so we disagree. I think your notion of the point of the joke is not at all connected to the words in the joke or the spirit of the delivery, and I’m not sure what the point of further discussion on it would be. Pointing out an exception, rather than challenging the entire basis of the bigoted belief, implies legitimacy for the bigoted belief. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/234 "2018-08-04T01:09:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’m sorry, but I don’t think you’re correct; that’s why I called out the comments. Trevor Noah never said “No one deserves an apology for this.” IIRC, he never used the word apology or the word deserve. I don’t recall him saying “no I will not apologize” at all, perhaps you could quote that? First off, don’t think I didn’t notice your change of antecedent. This is about whether he thinks these particular people deserve an apology. And, quoted from the OP: Asked if he would apologise for any hurt caused, Noah said: "Well, my question is, how many times will people ask for the same thing? "This is a thing I realised … as a comedian, you are going to make jokes that some people like and some people don’t like. "I always go back to intention. If you are trying to hurt people, then you would carry on doing the joke. If you are not trying to hurt people, then you don’t do the joke … you change the joke to work. Right there. That’s where, when asked if he would at least apologize for hurting people, he makes excuses for why he should never have to apologize. He lies and pretends this is about people not liking a joke, rather than being hurt by it. When asked to apologize for hurting the Aboriginal people who were offended by his joke, he refused. He does not think the Aboriginal people deserve an apology. And that’s what you originally asked to be proven. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/235 "2018-08-04T02:41:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, so we disagree. I think your notion of the point of the joke is not at all connected to the words in the joke or the spirit of the delivery, and I’m not sure what the point of further discussion on it would be. Pointing out an exception, rather than challenging the entire basis of the bigoted belief, implies legitimacy for the bigoted belief. Yeah; that’s what I thought: your comment there _was_ a passive-aggressive way of dismissing the conversation, just like your re-iteration of my words. If you could defend your position, I’m sure you would. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/236 "2018-08-04T03:15:07Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Do you think the joke supported the bigoted belief that aboriginal women are ugly? > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > “By implication”? Could you describe that implication? > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I don’t understand your reasoning here. He’s talking to the bigots who presumably don’t think there are any attractive aboriginal women, right? How is acknowledging their belief implying that it’s a reasonable belief. Am I implying that when I acknowledge a Scientologist’s belief in Xenu? > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Missed the edit window by seconds: > > How about when I acknowledge a person’s belief that homosexuality is evil and gays are going to hell and should be killed? Am I implying that’s a reasonable belief by acknowledging that they hold it? :dubious: > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’m sorry, but I don’t see it that way. “Yet” is directly challenging them, their experiences and their perceptions. > > Acknowledging something does not mean endorsing it. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, I wouldn’t. > > “So you believe in Xenu” doesn’t endorse their belief in Xenu. “So you think gays should be shot” doesn’t endorse the idea that gays should be shot. Acknowledging something does not amount to endorsing it, legitimizing it, or implying it is reasonable. > > “So you don’t think you should have to bake a cake for a gay wedding” doesn’t imply that it’s reasonable; it simply acknowledges that the belief exists. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I disagree, and you’re not refuting my argument, you’re simply restating your position. > > “Yet” directly challenges the bigot’s attitude, perceptions and ideas. Look at this example: > > “All ice cream sucks! I’ve never tried a flavor of ice cream that I like!” > “Have you tried pistachio?” > > That exchange in no way validates the claim that “all ice cream sucks”; in fact, it directly challenges it. Do you disagree? > > Also, the sentence “Women from all races can be beautiful” directly contradicts what you claim he’s implying. What do you think the point of the joke was? Was it “your bigoted perceptions are perfectly reasonable and valid”, or was it something else? > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I didn’t say it wasn’t okay to disagree; what a weird non-sequitur. Unless this is a passive-aggressive way of attempting to end the conversation; was it? > > If it was not, perhaps you could explain in what way you think pointing out a possible exception is confirmation of reasonableness? You aren’t being at all clear on this point, prolly because you have “yet” to try and address this: “yet” directly challenges the bigot’s attitude, perceptions and ideas. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I forgot to address this in my previous post. > > I think your notion of the point of the joke is not at all connected to the words present in the joke or the spirit of the delivery. To think that this joke is doing anything other than poking fun at bigots and their attitudes is, IMO, not at all supported by the actual words used nor the sentiments overtly expressed. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Yeah; that’s what I thought: your comment there _was_ a passive-aggressive way of dismissing the conversation, just like your re-iteration of my words. If you could defend your position, I’m sure you would. …you sure seem invested in defending a racist-as-fuck joke. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/237 "2018-08-04T03:16:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > First off, don’t think I didn’t notice your change of antecedent. This is about whether he thinks these particular people deserve an apology. And, quoted from the OP: > > Asked if he would apologise for any hurt caused, Noah said: "Well, my question is, how many times will people ask for the same thing? > > "This is a thing I realised … as a comedian, you are going to make jokes that some people like and some people don’t like. > > "I always go back to intention. If you are trying to hurt people, then you would carry on doing the joke. If you are not trying to hurt people, then you don’t do the joke … you change the joke to work. > > Right there. That’s where, when asked if he would at least apologize for hurting people, he makes excuses for why he should never have to apologize. He lies and pretends this is about people not liking a joke, rather than being hurt by it. > > When asked to apologize for hurting the Aboriginal people who were offended by his joke, he refused. He does not think the Aboriginal people deserve an apology. > > And that’s what you originally asked to be proven. …Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/238 "2018-08-04T04:29:16Z")
> [@Trafalgar\_Laura](#): > > I had actually grown to really like the new Daily Show, so this whole joke and then Noah’s response have been a big disappointment for me. I don’t get the “it’s a cultural barrier” idea that the joke would be funny if I were South African. Humor doesn’t always travel well, but I don’t think that’s the argument. In South Africa (and the US), Aborigines are an abstraction, just as Eskimos are. There are less than 1 million Aborigines in Australia today, and I’m guessing there are very very few who live abroad. So nobody in the crowd would have been an Aborigine, or _more important_ would have personally known an Aborigine. Not a lot of scope for discrimination in that context. It’s a little like joking about Eskimo kisses. Except more toxic. It’s more like Japanese music groups performing in blackface. Which some do. And is arguably worse, as there are a small number of African Americans who live or pass through Japan. (There’s blackface in the Netherlands as well: I don’t want to pick on the Japanese.) Of course in the US, blackface is about as offensive as you can get. Anyway, it sounds like Noah made a mediocre joke, without ill intent. > [@](#): > > I wish he’d issue an honest apology. There’s nothing wrong or shameful in admitting you did something wrong in the past. It was noted upthread that as a comedian he could face an avalanche of apology requests. But guess what? You Tube knows no borders. They’ve taken the video down, but a famous guy simply can’t say it’s all in the past and leave it at that. Because it’s not: video is forever and everyone is in the room now. I concede that apology management is more difficult than it looks for a comedian, but methinks it’s worth the effort. Make a mediocre joke with no ill intent about blackface in Japan, and I think it’s fair to expect some commentary and pushback if you want to extend your career into the US. Stay local and we can and do ignore you. I think Trevor was riffing on “All women are beautiful”, and that Aborigenes were pulled in as a prop. But once your prop wanders into the room, you really need to apologize. Yes, yes, no apology will typically satisfy 80-90% of those who comment on it on twitter. Deal with it Noah: you’re a pro with a staff. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I’m one of the people that “wants Noah to offer a proper apology”. (But more than an apology I want Noah to simply acknowledge that he perpetuated an ugly damaging stereotype that has been used to attack indigenous Australians for decades) Door #2 I think would be easier to pull off. It’s really not good to stomp on people’s feet and knee them in the groin, even if it’s an accident. And as I noted upthread, the attack is pretty unfair as well as being targeted at a group that doesn’t need the extra abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/239 "2018-08-04T04:31:17Z")
…very proud of my Prime Minister, and very proud of my country today. > ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/240 "2018-08-04T06:26:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > It seems clear to me that he was telling other people, other people who say they’ve never met a beautiful Aboriginal woman, that they just haven’t met one “yet”. If even if they don’t meet an Aboriginal woman who they find beautiful, maybe something else about her is beautiful besides how she looks. That is pathetic. > [@](#): > > And I know some of you are sitting there now going, ‘Oh Trevor, yeah, but I’ve never seen a beautiful Aborigine’. Yeah, but you know what you say? You say ‘yet’, that’s what you say; ‘yet’. Because you haven’t seen all of them, right? > > “Plus it’s not always about looks, maybe Aboriginal women do special things, maybe they’ll just like, jump on top of you and be like,” he continues, before cupping his hands to his lips and imitating the sound of a didgeridoo. “All women of every race can be beautiful.” Aboriginal women are predominantly, perhaps even exclusively unattractive, but they might jump you in bed or give great head, so that’s all right. Attempting to pass this one off as anything else is trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650.md?page=13)