# Tribeca Film Festival to screen Wakefield anti-vac film.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [March 22, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890 "2016-03-22T21:15:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/61 "2016-04-13T23:52:02Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> De Niro was [on the Today show this morning](http://jezebel.com/robert-de-niro-promotes-all-kinds-of-anti-vaccination-n-1770709195) peddling his anti-vax bullshit and continuing to support the film.
It’s obvious Bob doesn’t work well without a script.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/62 "2016-04-13T23:54:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> Hey now, don’t be hating on the Bigtrees, who are not collectively responsible for the kooky notions of this particular, er, scion.
>
> Though the name does rather remind me of the character in the John Sandford thrillers named Del Capslock, which **is** admittedly a silly name.
Del BigTree? Sounds like his parents were Database managers… 🙂
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### Author:  [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/63 "2016-04-14T00:08:41Z")
> [@friedo](#):
>
> FWIW, they four-walled it at the Angelika for a day or two. A friend of mine bit the bullet and wrote a [review](http://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/apr/02/vaxxed-from-cover-up-to-catastrophe-review).
I like how DeNiro said he wasn’t a doctor on the Today show. According to the review, Wakefield currently isn’t one either:
> [@](#):
>
> At no point does the movie address or deflect the elephant in the room: that the British gastroenterologist and researcher has been struck off as a licensed doctor.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/64 "2016-04-14T00:23:12Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> De Niro was [on the Today show this morning](http://jezebel.com/robert-de-niro-promotes-all-kinds-of-anti-vaccination-n-1770709195) peddling his anti-vax bullshit and continuing to support the film.
What I got out of that summary is (a) DeNiro only wants “the truth”, and (b) the fact that he’s mad as hell and sitting there on the Today show frothing at the mouth is, somehow, proof that the truth is not being told. Actually, it seems to be proof that emotion can drive delusions even in people who might otherwise be reasonably bright.
I think the first comment after the article nailed it: “I truly feel for parents desperate to find something to blame for their child’s disorder, but once you cross the line into spreading dangerous untruths because you want the conspiracy to be true so badly, you must be told to sit down and shut up.”
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### Author:  [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/65 "2016-04-14T00:44:41Z")
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> I think the first comment after the article nailed it: “I truly feel for parents desperate to find something to blame for their child’s disorder, but once you cross the line into spreading dangerous untruths because you want the conspiracy to be true so badly, you must be told to sit down and shut up.”
Hear, hear, to that comment!
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/66 "2016-04-14T01:40:48Z")
> [@friedo](#):
>
> Also, WTF kind of name is “Del Bigtree?”
[Johnny’s brother](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em9PtzQzWOg&t=1m6s)? 😃
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/67 "2016-04-14T12:00:34Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> De Niro was [on the Today show this morning](http://jezebel.com/robert-de-niro-promotes-all-kinds-of-anti-vaccination-n-1770709195) peddling his anti-vax bullshit and continuing to support the film.
So now we know it wasn’t a matter of trying to give a platform to an antivax film to because DeNiro was leaning in that direction. He’s revealed himself to be firmly in the antivax camp, complete with classic tropes (“I’'m not antivaccine, I’m pro-safe vaccine” “they turned autistic overnight after the shot” and “you can’t trust Big Pharma”).
[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/04/14/raging-bullsht-robert-de-niro-is-the-latest-celebrity-antivaccinationist-to-spew-pseudoscientific-nonsense-to-the-world/](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/04/14/raging-bullsht-robert-de-niro-is-the-latest-celebrity-antivaccinationist-to-spew-pseudoscientific-nonsense-to-the-world/)
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### Author:  [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/68 "2016-04-14T14:20:45Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> So now we know it wasn’t a matter of trying to give a platform to an antivax film to because DeNiro was leaning in that direction. He’s revealed himself to be firmly in the antivax camp, complete with classic tropes (“I’'m not antivaccine, I’m pro-safe vaccine” “they turned autistic overnight after the shot” and “you can’t trust Big Pharma”).
>
> [http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/04/14/raging-bullsht-robert-de-niro-is-the-latest-celebrity-antivaccinationist-to-spew-pseudoscientific-nonsense-to-the-world/](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/04/14/raging-bullsht-robert-de-niro-is-the-latest-celebrity-antivaccinationist-to-spew-pseudoscientific-nonsense-to-the-world/)
From the link:
> [@](#):
>
> Whenever someone feels the need to assert that he’s “not antivaccine” and claims he is “pro-safe vaccine,” that person is antivaccine—or at least antivaccine-sympathetic. If he were not, he wouldn’t feel the the need to pre-emptively assert his purity, his state of not being “antivaccine.”
This is probably the equivalent of "I’m not a racist, but black people \<_insert stupid comment here_\>.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/69 "2016-04-14T14:23:36Z")
Robert De Niro has always come across as one of those idiot-savant actors with no real personality of his own - an empty vessel waiting for a script. I guess someone handed him one.
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### Author:  [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/70 "2016-04-14T14:32:04Z")
It the same article, Alicia Silverstone tweets:
> [@](#):
>
> Alicia Silverstone
> ✔
> @AliciaSilv
>
> Check out Robert De Niro speaking from his heart, passionately, about an important issue for our children [Robert De Niro debates autism's link to vaccines on TODAY Show](http://www.today.com/popculture/robert-deniro-debates-autism-s-link-vaccines-today-show-t86136) …
> 9:44 PM - 13 Apr 2016
I didn’t realize she was method acting in _Clueless_, but it makes sense if she’s a fan of DeNiro.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/71 "2016-04-14T16:42:38Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#):
>
> I didn’t realize she was method acting in _Clueless_, but it makes sense if she’s a fan of DeNiro.
Alicia Silverstone is a walking advertisement for the Unified Theory of the Crank (a.k.a. Crank Magnetism).
Not only is she antivaccine, she also claims that tampons cause infertility, thinks new moms should eat the placenta and also appeared in a video in which she chewed up food she then gave to her baby (arguing that “pre-mastication” is a valuable ancient feeding technique.\*
\*thankfully she has not come out in support of vomiting up food to give the baby, something that also occurs “naturally” in the animal kingdom.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/72 "2016-04-14T17:13:37Z")
I am never sure whether I am supposed to vomit up my pre-digested infant food from my second stomach or my third one.
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### Author:  [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/73 "2016-04-14T17:26:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> I am never sure whether I am supposed to vomit up my pre-digested infant food from my second stomach or my third one.
Do it from both–it’s the only way to be sure.
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### Author:  [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/74 "2016-04-14T17:44:45Z")
Dogs lick each other’s butts and have sex with strangers on the front lawn, so it’s natural and we should do it too.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/75 "2016-04-14T19:11:14Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> Not only is she antivaccine, she also claims that tampons cause infertility, thinks new moms should eat the placenta and also appeared in a video in which she chewed up food she then gave to her baby (arguing that “pre-mastication” is a valuable ancient feeding technique.\*
>
> \*thankfully she has not come out in support of vomiting up food to give the baby, something that also occurs “naturally” in the animal kingdom.
:dubious: One of these things is not like the others. Claiming that vaccines and tampons cause autism and/or infertility is sheer pathological gibberish, and placentophagy among humans has always been rare and of dubious value at best.
But pre-mastication or “mouth mush baby food” has been a very widespread and valuable practice for huge numbers of people throughout human history. I wouldn’t care to do it myself, and there’s no practical or medical reason that modern people with access to other methods of food mushification **need** to do it, but for healthy mothers and babies there’s no real reason **not** to do it unless it happens to gross you out.
It certainly is not comparable in any way to regurgitation-feeding or other parental behaviors exclusive to non-humans. Let’s not let our righteous fulminations against antivax nuts lead us into unDoperly illogic here.
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### Author:  [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/76 "2016-04-14T19:21:16Z")
Pre-mastication can transfer caries causing bacteria if the mom (or whomever is doing the chewing/licking off a pacifier/sharing drinks or utensils) has it. I wish that had been known back when my kids were little. Mistermage has maybe 2 cavities and I have had a ton. All 3 boys have had tiny cavities starting from age 2 (their first dental visits).
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/77 "2016-04-14T19:29:43Z")
“X has been a very widespread and valuable practice for huge numbers of people throughout human history” is a lousy justification for doing anything (“valuable” is highly debatable - you could find plenty of people who even to this day think that female genital mutilation is valuable. It is still practiced in 30 countries and affects hundreds of millions of women).
While not as destructive, it would not surprise me if a great deal of infection and mortality has accompanied “pre-mastication”.
For starters, what if Mom is carrying oral herpes or human papillomavirus and transmits it to her baby that way (both of these viruses are quite common, even in developed countries)?
Alicia Silverstone is an ass, and I fear **Kimstu** is letting her instinct to defend Indigenous Cultural Practices override her common sense.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/78 "2016-04-14T19:52:13Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> “X has been a very widespread and valuable practice for huge numbers of people throughout human history” is a lousy justification for doing anything (“valuable” is highly debatable - you could find plenty of people who even to this day think that female genital mutilation is valuable
:rolleyes: Dude. Pre-mastication has been “valuable” in the sense that **it provides weaning infants with solid food in a form they can eat**. We really don’t have to get into a cultural-relativism debate about whether there’s any objective “value” in baby food.
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
While not as destructive, it would not surprise me if a great deal of infection and mortality has accompanied “pre-mastication”.
[/quote]
Sure, **most** parental behaviors have **always** been accompanied by a great deal of infection and mortality. But AFAIK there’s no medical evidence that among healthy mothers and children there are any significant risks from pre-mastication. And researchers have noted that [even among unhealthy populations, e.g., with high HIV infection rates, the benefits of pre-mastication may be greater than the dangers](http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/51/2/252.full).
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
Alicia Silverstone is an ass, and I fear **Kimstu** is letting her instinct to defend Indigenous Cultural Practices override her common sense.
[/QUOTE]
I am in no way attempting to deny that Alicia Silverstone is an ass, but I think **Jackmannii** is letting his not-unjustified spluttering rage at her assishness override his capability for logical distinctions.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/79 "2016-04-14T20:57:23Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#):
>
> Dogs lick each other’s butts and have sex with strangers on the front lawn, so it’s natural and we should do it too.
Ahhh, yes, my college days!
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tribeca-film-festival-to-screen-wakefield-anti-vac-film/749890/80 "2016-04-14T21:16:58Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> Pre-mastication has been “valuable” in the sense that **it provides weaning infants with solid food in a form they can eat**.
I’m pretty sure Alicia Silverstone and other worshippers of supposedly utopian primitive cultures have access to utensils to cut up food into infant bite-sized pieces.
> [@](#):
>
> Sure, **most** parental behaviors have **always** been accompanied by a great deal of infection and mortality. But AFAIK there’s no medical evidence that among healthy mothers and children there are any significant risks from pre-mastication. And researchers have noted that [even among unhealthy populations, e.g., with high HIV infection rates, the benefits of pre-mastication may be greater than the dangers](http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/51/2/252.full).
Not sure where you’re getting that. From your own link:
_“the transfer of infectious particles coated by a food bolus into the immature gut of the child has been linked to transmission of human herpesvirus 8 and HIV from infected mothers to their offspring [16, 23], which may be further enabled by coincident enteric infections and malnutrition…Compared with exclusive breastfeeding, it seems biologically plausible that premastication may be an incremental HIV risk factor for a substantial number of infants given mixed feedings.”_
And that’s just in reference to HIV infection. As previously noted, other infectious agents (including herpesvirus and HPV) might be transmitted in this way.
I’m just not seeing “benefits” to this practice that outweigh the risks of disease transmission.
Remember when there was a dust-up in this forum about mohels transmitting herpes infections to the genitalia of infants as part of ritual circumcision? One could try to defend this practice on the grounds that it has ancient roots, and has been commonplace and considered valuable by many.
But one would be stupid to do so considering the potential for harm.
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