# Trick Question: Define a "First Lady" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 24, 2004, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874 "2004-02-24T12:43:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/1 "2004-02-24T12:43:45Z")
At first, this question may seem blatantly obvious. However, did you know some of the Presidents’ First Ladies were sisters or sister-in-laws? And, for the record, they were married. So, why would this be? And, now I ask again: Define “first lady”. - Jinx 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/2 "2004-02-24T13:04:56Z")
Really? Other than James Buchanan, who used his niece as a hostess because he wasn’t married, can you show me even one President whose sister was a First Lady? I know that some of them were distant cousins, as in the case of FDR, but I can’t think of a single President that married his sister. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/3 "2004-02-24T13:18:08Z")
Weren’t a few of the presidents made widowers while in the White House? ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/4 "2004-02-24T13:18:20Z")
Chester A. Arthur, apparently. It looks indeed like several presidents had a stand-in relative (or in the case of Jefferson, friend) for first lady if the president was a widower (or in the case of Buchanan and Cleveland, bachelor). Info hence: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First\_Lady\_of\_the\_United\_States](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Lady_of_the_United_States) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/5 "2004-02-24T13:19:47Z")
Another cite [http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/F/First-Lady-of-the-United-States.htm](http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/F/First-Lady-of-the-United-States.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/6 "2004-02-24T13:23:54Z")
I had forgotten about the widowers. Nice cite, **Achernar**. 🙂 Still, I didn’t see any sisters listed there, **Jinx**. Anybody have a cite for a President marrying his sister? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/7 "2004-02-24T13:25:50Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I had forgotten about the widowers. Nice cite, **Achernar**. 🙂 > > Still, I didn’t see any sisters listed there, **Jinx**. Anybody have a cite for a President marrying his sister? …and that was covered in **BobLibDem** ’s cite. Forgive me, guys. It’s early. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/8 "2004-02-24T13:39:02Z")
Whoa, hey, just to be clear, no president married his sister! If a woman other than “wife” is listed, it means she fulfilled the role of First Lady without actually being married to the President. As to the title of this thread, “First Lady” of the USA is defined as, “The hostess of the White House. If the POTUS is married to a woman, she is the FLOTUS; otherwise some other FLOTUS is appointed.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/9 "2004-02-24T13:58:45Z")
My understanding of the title is that it comes from the traditions of social precedence. The President ranks first in precedence, entering rooms first on social occasions, and so on. The President’s wife similarly is the first in precedence, entering before others, hence “First Lady.” We don’t use any title like that in Canada for our Prime Minister’s wife, because technically she would be “Third Lady.” She ranks behind the monarch’s spouse (Prince Philip) and the spouse of the Governor-General (John Raulston Saul), because the Queen and the GG both take precedence over the Prime Minister. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/10 "2004-02-24T14:16:37Z")
So Prince Phillip is the First Lady of England? ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/11 "2004-02-24T14:23:13Z")
Does there _have_ to be a First Lady ? Is there any precedence of there not being any ? And does the title get affixed to one lady only (within a term) ? What if Hugh Heffner became President ? ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/12 "2004-02-24T14:25:41Z")
This brings to mind a related question I’ve had on my mind for some time: when we in the USA elect our first female president, what will her husband be called? (Besides “Bill”, of course. :eek: ) First Man? First Gentleman? First Lord? ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/13 "2004-02-24T15:31:08Z")
Well, when I was in about third grade, I read a book - I believe it was one of the Bingo Brown series - in which the main character fantasized about his love interest becoming President and referred to himself as the First Husband. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/14 "2004-02-24T15:41:57Z")
I read a book in which there was a female president and her husband was called First Gentleman, which I think is a good term. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/15 "2004-02-24T16:12:14Z")
By tradition, a person is addressed by their highest previous rank, even if it’s no longer held. The first man in that position will still be addressed as “President Clinton”. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/16 "2004-02-24T16:18:18Z")
So, would invitations go out as President and President Clinton? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/17 "2004-02-24T16:30:07Z")
I thought that ex-Presidents were properly addressed by the highest office they held other than president or vice-president. Therefore, we now have Congressman Ford, Governor Carter, Governor Reagan, Ambassador Bush, and Governor Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rex_fenestrarum/32/7265_2.png) [@Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rex_Fenestrarum)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/18 "2004-02-24T16:45:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I thought that ex-Presidents were properly addressed by the highest office they held other than president or vice-president. Therefore, we now have Congressman Ford, Governor Carter, Governor Reagan, Ambassador Bush, and Governor Clinton. I’ve never heard presidents referred to as anything other than “former president”. And for that matter, I believe that “ex-president” is offensive, much like the phrase “ex-Marine”. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/19 "2004-02-24T16:52:42Z")
No, I stand by myself. [Miss Manners](http://www.jsonline.com/lifestyle/advice/dec03/189597.asp) is never wrong about etiquette. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874/20 "2004-02-24T16:55:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I thought that ex-Presidents were properly addressed by the highest office they held other than president or vice-president. Therefore, we now have Congressman Ford, Governor Carter, Governor Reagan, Ambassador Bush, and Governor Clinton. According to Miss Manners, this is correct. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trick-question-define-a-first-lady/230874.md?page=2)