# Trip advise - how unsafe is SF & Oakland **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** vacation-travel\ **Created:** [March 10, 2024, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671 "2024-03-10T15:34:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/61 "2024-03-13T22:57:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Which is why California often ends up with the homeless of many other states. Easy enough to drive them off _somewhere_, at least unless you happen to be the mayor of Somewhere. This is another false right-wing trope. Most of the homeless in California, and other places, used to live in those same places, but ran into money trouble. The high (and rising) cost of housing is what sends most people into homelessness, and they don’t go traveling to California to be homeless: > **[4 Charts That Tell Us About Homelessness in America Today](https://time.com/6287597/study-homelessness-findings/)** > > A large new study asked almost 3,200 homeless people from all over California about what would have helped them avoid losing their housing. _…some of the report’s data runs counter to popular perception: most homeless people were not from out-of-state, contrary to the myth that people lacking housing move there because of the weather and policies, for example, and 40% of them were contending with homelessness for the first time._ > **[Where are the homeless coming from? They’re mostly from here, service...](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/king-countys-homeless-are-overwhelmingly-from-here-service-providers-say/)** > > Some people experiencing homelessness in King County are from elsewhere. But most aren’t, according to ZIP code data collected by homeless-services providers. > **[Dispelling myths about California’s homeless](https://www.politifact.com/article/2018/jun/28/dispelling-myths-about-californias-homeless/)** > > Sarah Backus lives in a tent on the streets of Sacramento. The 56-year-old mother of three said she hears these myths an _ **Myth #1:** California’s homeless are from somewhere else – and moved here for the mild weather and social services._ _ **Reality:** Experts say this is one of the most common and inaccurate assumptions about homeless Californians._ _“People when they become homeless, more often than not are from the community in which they’re living homeless,” said Ben Avey, a spokesman with Sacramento Steps Forward, a nonprofit dedicated to ending homelessness in the Capital City. “And they often move to the streets very near where they lived in the past. You may not recognize them. But they are members of your community.”_ Many of the homeless you see camped on the sidewalks of your city (any city) used to live under a roof in that very city. The idea that they are either traveling or being “sent” from somewhere else to leverage California’s “liberal handouts” is just right-wing claptrap. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/62 "2024-03-13T22:58:05Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > This is way overblown, IMO. I’m in San Francisco a lot. Dirt? Absolutely. Homeless people? Lots. But human feces? I’ve never seen it. Sincerely, that’s great for you. I’m confident that most have not. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2024, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/63 "2024-03-13T23:13:19Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Many of the homeless you see camped on the sidewalks of your city (any city) used to live under a roof in that very city. The idea that they are either traveling or being “sent” from somewhere else to leverage California’s “liberal handouts” is just right-wing claptrap. I meant just about the opposite - that right wing policies in other places can make life bad enough for the homeless that they end up leaving. But I didn’t do too much research into that concept, beyond hearing about some specific and cruel policies that cities out East had adopted. If the numbers don’t back up that narrative, I am happy to be corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/64 "2024-03-15T20:18:20Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > It’s not much worse than other cities. Just take precautions against the were-seals, velociraptors, and vampire cats and you should be ok. > [@Bullitt](#): > > Wear garlic Were-garlic is the worst. Expose it to moonlight, and it transforms horribly into cilantro, and all of the sudden your burrito tastes like a bar of Dial. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2024, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/65 "2024-03-15T23:45:34Z")
Were-garlic? There garlic. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/66 "2024-03-16T19:40:46Z")
Where’s garlic? Around Waldo’s neck, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/67 "2024-03-17T11:48:16Z")
As a former resident of The City, having lived there nearly 20 years, to see what’s happened there with the crime, dirt, needles, and proliferating homeless camps is sad. I’ve seen the discarded needles at Buena Vista Park near the Haight. I’m not comparing SF with other big cities. I’m comparing how it used to be with how it has gotten, which is markedly downhill. Yes it is still a gem of a city with a lot of beauty, but the city leaders have done a terrible job there lately. We need Willie Brown again. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/68 "2024-03-17T14:21:31Z")
Trying to learn how unsafe San Francisco is today, I feel like the more I read, the less I know! I’ve read articles, talked to friends who live there, watched videos, and read comments here and elsewhere on the internet. I think it’s fair to say that conditions in parts of downtown have gotten worse since I left SF almost 20 years ago. (Looking at you, Market Street.) But (without recent firsthand experience) it’s hard to be sure _how_ bad they are and how widespread they are. Everyone frames the issue differently! And it feels like, for every narrative, there’s an opposing datapoint, and vice versa. (Even when you discount the obvious right-wing drivel.) It’s a little like the (related) question of to what extent shoplifting has increased in US cities. It’s frustrating. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/69 "2024-03-17T15:40:23Z")
My comments are based on my own experiences there. They are not based on any data from broad studies. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/70 "2024-03-17T16:06:20Z")
Visiting any large city you need to know where to go and where not to - San Francisco is no different. If you stick to the tourist areas, where most of the iconic sights are anyway, you wont likely see the creeping underbelly of the city. There is more police presence in those areas anyway. Unless you go out of your way, you wont likely need to go to Market St or downtown as a visitor (the area is essentially hollowed-out, compared to what it once was, as @Bullitt notes). Just use your senses as you would visiting any large city in the world. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/71 "2024-03-17T17:52:44Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > Trying to learn how unsafe San Francisco is today, I feel like the more I read, the less I know! I think UNSAFE is the key point here. Its pretty undeniable that san Francisco is not UNSAFE (see above jts [37 on the list of US cities for violent crime](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/22), no one is asking “is it safe to go to Milwaukee?”). You can argue about homelessness, car crime, etc. but it is absolutely not an unsafe city. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/72 "2024-03-17T18:58:35Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > car crime, etc. but it is absolutely not an unsafe city. well…for me, I definitely feel unsafe if my car is likely to be broken into. YMMV. This whole thread reminds me of similar discussions back in the 1970’s with residents of New York. They also claimed that the city was “not unsafe”…you just had to avoid Times Square, stay out of Central Park after 5 pm, never set foot north of 180th street, etc. Today, Manhattan is (I think) a pretty safe city. Back then, not so much. But the residents of any city who love the other stuff, the culture, etc…are always ready to ignore all the bad stuff they see every day. Tourists…not so much. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/73 "2024-03-17T21:47:07Z")
I hope this is not a thread shit, but honestly, there are few places that are unsafe in any city. And I have not visited the US, let alone SF. Perhaps in Brazil. I did get a little scared there, in Sao Paulo, when the cops strongly suggested I should not go down one alley. I drive one of the most hijacked vehicles (Toyota D4D Hilux) in a country with one of the highest (I do not have the stats, but approx 30% on this brand alone) hijacking rates. My city has the highest murder rate in the country, taking (as of 2022) number one in the region and number 12 internationally. > **[List of cities by homicide rate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_homicide_rate)** > > The following article is a list of cities sorted by homicide rates in the world, excluding active war zones. The homicide rate of a city is an imprecise tool for comparison, as the population within city borders may not best represent an urban or metropolitan area with varying rates in different areas. > The following 50 cities have the highest homicide rates in the world of all cities not at war, with a population of at least 300,000 people. This is based on 2022 data from El Consejo Ciudadan... Everywhere is reasonably safe - if you are aware and don’t stand out. I mean, this is impossible in my chosen country, nor in my birth country because of my skin colour, so I stand out regardless. But confidence, friendliness and maybe a little “devil may care” attitude goes a long way. Also, I’m going to need to see the gun if someone wants to mug me. No nambly-pambly knives, shit, I have fought off a knife-weilding mugger with a papier-maché fish (he probably thought I was insane, and just decided to abandon the attempt). I suggest the OP goes, keeps to what he feels comfortable with (not my personal idiosyncrasies) and enjoys the trip. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/74 "2024-03-17T23:27:17Z")
Even if you magically knew that SF was exactly X% less safe than 20 years ago, is that useful info unless you know how other cities or your own area has changed in the same time frame? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/75 "2024-03-17T23:31:14Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > **Myth #1:** California’s homeless are from somewhere else – and moved here for the mild weather and social services. Thanks for the stats. I’m in L.A., but have a lot of the same issues as SF. I would see lots of out of state license plates on vehicles in homeless encampments, but I don’t know if that was just my prejudices causing me to notice them more than the CA ones. I apppreciate getting the dope! ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/76 "2024-03-18T00:15:44Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > I would see lots of out of state license plates on vehicles in homeless encampments, That’s because LOTS of people in LA aren’t from LA. They come here for a multitude of reasons, but “to be homeless” isn’t one of them. Most likely they had a plan that got upended by the pandemic or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/77 "2024-03-18T02:04:56Z")
But what they _really_ want to do is direct. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/78 "2024-03-18T05:58:56Z")
All actors/directors want to be rock stars. All rock stars want to be actors. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/79 "2024-03-18T13:42:18Z")
May the circle be unbroken. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671/80 "2024-03-18T16:58:01Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > Perhaps in Brazil. I did get a little scared there, in Sao Paulo, when the cops strongly suggested I should not go down one alley. Try Colon, Panama. I was on a cruise that docked there. The people at the next table screwed up and didn’t book any excursions, so they tried to walk out of the cruise ship area. They were prevented from leaving by the Panama police, for their own safety. Judging from what it looked like when we returned on the bus, they police were right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trip-advise-how-unsafe-is-sf-oakland/998671.md?page=5)