# Trolls R Us redux \[Now the argument clinic\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2020, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349 "2020-06-27T06:30:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 164
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3270 "2021-04-30T01:14:28Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > If **CarnalK** ’s alter-egos are so obvious to y’all, how come the mod staff can’t see the same thing?. Because the mods are not in the same threads. Some of the threads have been going on for a year. If someone comes in and takes the same stance on multiple threads at the same time, that’s pretty unlikely. And since I’m the one on the other side of the argument, the same arguments by one person becomes obvious. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3271 "2021-04-30T07:02:42Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > The Mods need actual proof like matching IP Addresses. It’s easy enough to mask that. It’s not as easy to change behavior. I know at least that they don’t _just_ use IP addresses. There was on poster I no longer remember who I reported as a possible sock–in a “keep a lookout” way, as they seemed overly familiar with the board. I got a reply back fairly quickly that they didn’t have the same IP address. But, within a day or two after my report, they were indeed banned for socking. I also seem to remember them mentioning at one point that they intentionally don’t reveal all their methods for sock detection, so that people won’t know to try and thwart them. Did CarnalK show any particular technical adeptness, @Heffalump_and_Roo & @DMC? I personally only remember him being a bit of a contrarian on political things. ---
**Author:** ![Enjoy\_Slurm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enjoy_slurm/32/3937_2.png) [@Enjoy\_Slurm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enjoy_Slurm)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3272 "2021-04-30T07:13:33Z")
Six warnings, wow, I can’t believe someone is allowed to get that many warnings and still be allowed to stay around. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3273 "2021-04-30T10:46:48Z")
I can’t tell if you’re jokingly referring to someone else in this thread, but I can see six warnings over a 15 or 20 year stint being OK. I think FN only showed up last year. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3274 "2021-04-30T11:45:17Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > six warnings over a 15 or 20 year stint [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sPMKlEwrIs8/hqdefault.jpg "Lurch - You Rang") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPMKlEwrIs8) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3275 "2021-04-30T11:47:26Z")
That guy’s voice is so great. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3276 "2021-04-30T19:29:07Z")
I mean, I don’t want to promote this topic, but what the holy fuck is wrong with people so they ask questions like this? > [@Who did the paying in the Gaetz affair?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-did-the-paying-in-the-gaetz-affair/941118): > > It certainly doesn’t seem that many people have a whole lot of good feeling about U.S. Rep. Matt Gaetz, but I am wondering if they are getting out the tar and feathers a bit soon. Unless law enforcement has more than what [salon.com](http://salon.com) has reported, the case against looks tenuous. Salon has reported Joel Greenberg wrote in a confession letter Gaetz paid for sex with a 17-year-old girl. [Salon’s article](https://www.salon.com/2021/04/30/matt-gaetz-associate-joel-greenberg-claims-in-letter-that-gaetz-paid-for-sex-with-minor/) Here are some quotes, which I may have chronologically out of order. Greenberg wrote these thing… If you divide your age in half, and both the legal age limit _and_ your girlfriend are within rounding errors of that number, stop being a fucking pedo and date older women. And don’t make arguments for these people. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3277 "2021-04-30T21:55:46Z")
“I don’t see the money put in Gaetz’ hand and it passing to the girls.” Ah cool. So this guy thinks that if you just put the money on the dresser, and the underage girl picks it up, they Hey, you’re in the clear because you did not actually directly give it to her. This gives off a really smelly vibe. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3278 "2021-04-30T21:59:29Z")
“Officer, I swear. I left a C-note on the drivers side and this damned guy grabs it and leaves me this bag of cocaine. Damndest thing I ever saw!” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3279 "2021-04-30T22:05:56Z")
I’m not sure if this thread informs the other one linked here: > [@Where can I find centrist discussion?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/where-can-i-find-centrist-discussion/941103): > > Determining how other people argue their political and publicly oriented decisions is burdensome. I’ve searched for conservative and politicly center message boards so I can read thoughtful posts from each side. So far, I haven’t found one. All I have been able to get when I search for conservative viewpoint are filled with far-right hate, nonsense talking points and name calling. Quite candidly I would rather not read talking points from either side. Instead, I seek thoughtful conservative and… Just leaving it for information. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3280 "2021-04-30T23:10:16Z")
This is a good example of “Enlightened Centrism.” ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3281 "2021-04-30T23:13:49Z")
For those of us (me) who didn’t know what that was – [Enlightened Centrist](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Enlightened%20Centrist) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3282 "2021-05-01T21:15:17Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > This is a good example of “Enlightened Centrism.” Excellent reference, thank you (and to @Heffalump_and_Roo for providing the cite). The poster under discussion here (@cincinnatus) seems to be in search of a discussion forum that promotes conservative values but is not insane. This would have been a perfectly reasonable thing to ask for a few decades ago, but as long as Republicans are now the presumed standard-bearers of “conservative values”, any such discussion is by definition going to be insanity vs. reality: Trump, Jim Jordan, Marjorie Taylor Green, Matt Gaetz, Lauren Boebert, Mitch McConnell, and dozens of others of their ilk who would be more at home in a lunatic asylum instead of the US Congress, versus what remains of fact-grounded sanity in American politics. So the discussion forum that this poster fantasizes about is not going to exist. It might exist in a purely academic discussion of conservative vs liberal principles in general, but not in any discussion of contemporary American politics. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2021, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3283 "2021-05-01T21:20:45Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > So the discussion forum that this poster fantasizes about is not going to exist. It might exist in a purely academic discussion of conservative vs liberal principles in general, but not in any discussion of contemporary American politics. I mean, I can’t say. I can say that I have many reasonable conservative friends and I’d love listening to them debate among themselves all day. So I hope such a place exists. Maybe a libertarian community? I know a lot of folks alienated by Republicans who have turned to libertarianism. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3284 "2021-05-01T21:39:23Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > … I have many reasonable conservative friends and I’d love listening to them debate among themselves all day. So I hope such a place exists. Maybe a libertarian community? Not in my view. I consider conservatism and progressive liberalism to both be principled and well-established political philosophies, and while I generally tend to side more with liberalism these days, both are philosophically defensible. The problem with contemporary Republicanism, especially in the Trump era, is that it no longer reflects conservative values except as a pretext for its real values, the promulgation of an oligarchy and corporatocracy along with a hefty dose of bigotry tinged with white supremacy. Republicanism, IOW, is a bat-shit crazy corruption of conservatism. Whereas libertarianism, in my view, is bat-shit crazy at its core (cite: Ron Paul & son). There are apparently reasonable people who have claimed to be libertarian. One example that comes to mind is Dave Barry, a bright and insightful humourist who has written a lot of funny articles about government waste and incompetence. He’s remained politically neutral in the public eye for most of his career, but eventually acknowledged that he was more or less a libertarian. I think many of these people are just carelessly using the term as a euphemism for their belief that less government is usually a good thing. As I’ve said before, there has never been a true libertarian society in history (for good reason), but the closest contemporary example we have is Somalia prior to the transitional governments that followed the civil war. I don’t think any reasonable person would want to have lived there. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3285 "2021-05-01T22:25:12Z")
I’m not clear why this discussion (the previous three posts, at a minimum) is taking place in this thread about trolls. Unless someone is suggesting that the OP of that centrist thread is using it for trolling purposes, this (completely worthwhile) discussion seems like it should be a separate thread in another forum. Just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3286 "2021-05-01T23:00:28Z")
OK, I tried. New thread on centrists is here. > [@What's a centrist?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-centrist/941183): > > Continuing the discussion from [Trolls R Us redux](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux/913349/3281): This thread in IMHO is sparking all kinds of political discussions all over the board so I thought I’d start a thread for everyone to discuss their views on the political part of the question. I put it in the Pit because there have already been several mod actions in IMHO. It might work in P&E but my guess is that it wouldn’t last long there. Some of the other discussions that were spawned by this thread were and this discussion So. .… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3287 "2021-05-01T23:12:16Z")
Thanks, good forking of the topic. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3288 "2021-05-02T01:12:33Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > For those of us (me) who didn’t know what that was – [Enlightened Centrist](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Enlightened%20Centrist) 1st cousin of **Friendly Curmudgeon**? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/3289 "2021-05-02T02:10:56Z")
And a 2nd cousin of **Undergraduate Libertarian** … lasts as long as you can stay in your dorm. Leave, and the real world smacks it out of you. . (Why, yes, I suppose you could interpret that as autobiographical…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349.md?page=163) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349.md?page=165)