# Trolls R Us redux \[Now the argument clinic\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2020, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349 "2020-06-27T06:30:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 239
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4783 "2021-09-11T20:36:25Z")
Yes, exactly like the folks that want the Pit changed! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4784 "2021-09-11T21:26:22Z")
It’s a happy middle ground, well staked out and defended. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4785 "2021-09-11T22:11:05Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Nick Hanauer from 7 years ago, talking to his fellow plutocrats about pitchforks coming for them. Andrew Yang, in his run for the Presidency in 2020, would sometimes say that many of his friends had bunkers. Many rich people are well aware of how things are going. Both Yang and Hanauer are political activists trying to level the playing field so the pitchforks don’t come out, one for UBI (universal basic income) and the other for $15 min wage although both said they would change positions if they thought it was politically feasible. This exposes the problem with the argument that the ultra-rich need to feel threatened for things to change. Those with bunkers are not the ultra-rich. The ultra-rich will get on their private jets (and rockets) and go to their islands, or other countries that will welcome them (and their bank accounts) with open arms. The merely rich will hide in their bunkers until the food runs out. The barely rich and well to do will be eaten first. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4786 "2021-09-11T22:22:52Z")
You continue to misrepresent the point. Good job, I guess, being disingenuous. “It would be nice if the ultra-rich felt threatened, so maybe they’d support change” != “…the ultra-rich need to feel threatened for things to change.” Because the ugly truth–what certain elements in our society are _really_ afraid of–is that if enough of us come to realize that we don’t actually need the ultra-rich to agree to anything, what they "feel "won’t matter at all. Because as Ben Shapiro and his followers are fond of observing, “Facts don’t care about your feelings.” And the fact is they, the ultra-rich, are outnumbered. We don’t need them to be afraid of that. If enough of us get together, we can just snap our collective fingers together and make it so that no one is ultra-rich anymore. All without violence. Except of course in the sense that all political action in favor of one system over another is violence of a sort. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4787 "2021-09-12T12:12:04Z")
You have managed to fit a remarkable amount of nonsense into a tiny white box. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4788 "2021-09-12T12:56:17Z")
My final thought on the discussions of trauma that some people have experienced boils down to this: Many people have said that trauma sufferers can just stay out of the threads that discuss that trauma. But its not always that easy. Even just a thread _title_ being something like “is rape ever justified?” is going to be a trigger to some people. I would imagine that, if I were a sexual assault survivor, I wouldn’t feel comfortable opening a forum that may include a thread about the exact trauma I may be suffering from. And I sure as hell wouldn’t feel welcomed. ---
**Author:** ![Drsunflower1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drsunflower1/32/12711_2.png) [@Drsunflower1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drsunflower1)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4789 "2021-09-12T13:38:15Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Many people have said that trauma sufferers can just stay out of the threads that discuss that trauma. But its not always that easy. Even just a thread _title_ being something like “is rape ever justified?” is going to be a trigger to some people This. And being triggered is not being bothered of being annoyed, it’s involuntarily experiencing the pain and fear and disgust again. However this thread is a good example of how things play out in larger society, with people who are lucky to have never experienced trauma nor are close to someone who has basically not listening to survivors because they don’t want to hear. If they did, they’d have to either mend their ways or concede that they simply do not care enough about someone else’s pain to allow it to interfere with their pastimes. As for the freedom of speech argument, you’re allowed to bring this up as a fun topic of discussion, I’m allowed to thereby conclude you’re a dick who doesn’t get it and doesn’t want to. And if I’m correct that’s exactly what happened here, with the latter POV getting more traction. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4790 "2021-09-12T14:03:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Oh now let’s not start that again! > [@QuickSilver](#): > > You have managed to fit a remarkable amount of nonsense into a tiny white box. That’s twice now (at lest) that you have stopped making substantive arguments and reacted instead by throwing up sand. I guess the clinic is over and I have a clearer understanding of just how much weight to give your arguments in the future. You are not an honest interlocutor. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4791 "2021-09-12T14:15:09Z")
Stop making fatuous comments and perhaps next time there will be something worth discussing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4792 "2021-09-12T15:39:46Z")
I’m sorry, I’m not allowed to argue unless you pay. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4793 "2021-09-12T15:42:25Z")
Yes, you are. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4794 "2021-09-12T15:44:16Z")
Look, I’m not arguing until you pay. (tum tee tum de dum) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4795 "2021-09-12T16:07:43Z")
What centrists like Quicksilver ignore about the many anti-intellectual positions of the right wing of today. [![](https://www.climateactionreserve.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/climate-abyss-color.jpg) ](https://www.climateactionreserve.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/climate-abyss-color.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4796 "2021-09-12T16:26:03Z")
Which anti-intellectual right wing position have I ignored? Put another way, which intellectual progressive position litmus test have I failed in order to be considered a card carrying member of the club? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4797 "2021-09-12T17:52:24Z")
:sigh: It is not that you miss the positions, you miss the clear chasm that is there. It is time to realize also that the right wing is convincing many centrists that it is not their fault that that chasm is there. So in your attempt to continue to fall down, I have noticed that you claim to understand that both sides can be bananas, but then you maintain that positions from nutpicks from many on the left apply to all of the left. The result is a constant refusal to see the harm the current anti-intelectalism that most of the right currently causes, it is like when you hang to a CRT opinion of Kendi as it would apply to all the papers published that showed evidence about the systemic racism that is still present in the US in an attempt to dismiss the whole of CRT, while ignoring what the right (and usually white) governors and congress guys are listening to the extreme right to make laws that do cause harm to teachers or professors that are involved in it. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4798 "2021-09-12T18:08:36Z")
I choose to believe this is you boxing his ears. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4799 "2021-09-12T20:08:14Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > …it is like when you hang to a CRT opinion of Kendi as it would apply to all the papers published that showed evidence about the systemic racism that is still present in the US in an attempt to dismiss the whole of CRT… Who is “you” in this example? Me, or the generic “you”? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2021, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4800 "2021-09-12T20:26:08Z")
That was you in the “Another Critical Race Theory thread” and then, it is sad to see you fall into that missed middle elsewhere. The point here is that, most of the trolls are also of the anti-intellectual kind, and one has to also reject the framework that they use to also confuse centrists, leading centrists into inaction against the ones that are actually causing harm in the US right now, while pretending that they are not using ignorance in their arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4801 "2021-09-13T09:47:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You’d be at home in Afghanistan, North Korea, China, and a myriad of other places where expression is limited by the state and rabble. You don’t have to go that far afield. Right now in America, politicians are actively working to make it illegal to teach significant elements of America history in schools because it doesn’t support their hyperpartisan agenda. Demanding a state-approved version of history is pretty oppressive. > [@octopus](#): > > No, I don’t think people who disdain fundamental freedoms such as freedom of expression actually are that comfortable with the Western notion of freedom of expression If you say so. > [@octopus](#): > > I probably don’t have the endurance to span decades and multiple websites obsessing on the one true way to have a Woke board. I dunno - no one has obsessed over “Wokism” here more than you, and you’ve shown no signs of flagging. > [@DemonTree](#): > > What I don’t understand is why you support ideas and policies that seem so counterproductive to that end. Like, you’ve literally got 10’s of millions of people (and they are hardly all fatcat billionaires) in the USA who hate and fear progressives and the policies you’re talking about, so… you want to do that more? Congratulations - you’ve just given the standard excuse for oppressors to justify their oppression. They block every constructive and peaceful means for oppression to be ended, and then when - inevitably - less constructive and peaceful means are employed they blame the victims, claim this proves they were right to oppress such violent scofflaws…and then they double down. And thus it has always been - rich against poor, white against black, etc etc etc until something breaks. **iiandyiiii** is, as already repeatedly stated, merely pointing out a rather common historical trend - that if oppression does not end by peaceful means, it will inevitably end by violent ones. The threat comes not from him but from history, and some would do well to learn it. The result may rarely be what the mob wants, but it also tends not to end too well for the people the mob come for. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4802 "2021-09-13T10:15:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > **iiandyiiii** is, as already repeatedly stated, merely pointing out a rather common historical trend - that if oppression does not end by peaceful means, it will inevitably end by violent ones. The threat comes not from him but from history, and some would do well to learn it. The result may rarely be what the mob wants, but it also tends not to end too well for the people the mob come for. Well then, I suppose it will end by violent ones. Be sure to tell the mob their grievances aren’t legitimate when they come for you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349.md?page=238) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349.md?page=240)