# Trolls R Us redux \[Now the argument clinic\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2020, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349 "2020-06-27T06:30:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 241
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4823 "2021-09-13T20:00:02Z")
No you didn’t. You said they “overstate the issue”, but what issue do they overstate? You say other things are important, and there are “additional systemic issues”, but how is this a criticism of BLM? This is true of literally every movement, cause, and organization. You mentioned a couple of names, but what have they said? You haven’t actually said what BLM, or supporters, have said or done that you think is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4824 "2021-09-13T20:00:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > BLM started several years before last year, and the issue has been around much, much longer. This is a totally irrelevant data point. So far as I know there were few changes in policing before last year. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4825 "2021-09-13T20:02:54Z")
Ahh, I didn’t understand what you are getting at. “BLM has made crime worse” is certainly a criticism common among Trumpists, white supremacists, and similar, but I’ve seen absolutely zero evidence of it. Correlation is not causation (and there have been plenty of changes before last year – most notably body cameras being much more commonly required). ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4826 "2021-09-13T20:10:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You mentioned a couple of names, but what have they said? Yeah, sorry… not walking into that _gotcha ya_. If this issue is important to you - and I know that it is - spend whatever time you feel is warranted in finding out what they have to say on various current topics including BLM, CRT, anti-racism, etc… Or don’t. But don’t ask me to summarize it for you and then be the de facto advocate for all their views and opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4827 "2021-09-13T20:22:45Z")
You won’t expand on your cites because they’re a gotcha ya? I do not understand that, unless they don’t actually support your position. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4828 "2021-09-13T20:30:55Z")
I won’t do them justice. And I’m not 100% in agreement with all their opinions. We both know how it goes around here though, don’t we? If any of them are found to have eaten a puppy, someone will be along to demand to know why I support the eating of puppies. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4829 "2021-09-13T20:35:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’ve stated what I think is BLM’s shortcoming and I’ve referenced the sources on which I based my opinion. As far as I can tell from your posts, the shortcoming of BLM is that there are other issues, which isn’t a shortcoming at all. You say that Black leaders have called out the need for changes in the “Black community,” but that has fuck all to do with BLM. Black leaders calling out issues is great and they are right to do it, but it doesn’t mean there are shortcomings in BLM and it doesn’t absolve or reduce the need for white people to address systemic racism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4830 "2021-09-13T20:47:02Z")
You haven’t said anything. You didn’t make any claims, except something about “overstating” and the existence of other issues. I’m just curious what you were getting at, but you appear unwilling to expand upon it at all. I think basically you said nothing except “I’m gonna be mildly contrary but very lazy”. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4831 "2021-09-13T20:50:41Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > As far as I can tell from your posts, the shortcoming of BLM is that there are other issues, which isn’t a shortcoming at all. BLM supporters make the mistake of thinking that those others issues can’t be fixed until the external issues are addressed and resolved: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So that’s why BLM is so important – for the “black community” to even have a chance of addressing each and every issue it might face, we need to stop the mistreatment from broader American society. I think that’s misguided and an overstatement of why BLM is important. Recall that BLM started primarily in response to the mistreatment of black people by law enforcement. It’s scope has crept since then, largely because it’s a movement, not a formal organization with a clear mission statement. So saying that things can’t be fixed inside black communities until BLM goals are accomplished is wrong-headed, IMO. > [@TroutMan](#): > > …and it doesn’t absolve or reduce the need for white people to address systemic racism. And I never claimed otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4832 "2021-09-13T20:54:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think basically you said nothing except “I’m gonna be mildly contrary but very lazy”. I suggested a homework assignment for you. Do it or don’t do it. I don’t care. But don’t call _me_ lazy for not wanting to write a Coles Notes (ETA: Cliffs Notes in the US) version for you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4833 "2021-09-13T21:27:34Z")
Cliff Notes of what? I’d be happy if you just actually wrote a criticism. You haven’t done that. You haven’t said anything. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4834 "2021-09-13T21:35:44Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I dunno - no one has obsessed over “Wokism” here more than you, and you’ve shown no signs of flagging. Well, if wokism and wokusts weren’t a plague upon modern Western society I wouldn’t be so worried about the dystopian future they are working towards: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4835 "2021-09-14T08:12:35Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Well, if wokism and wokusts weren’t a plague upon modern Western society I wouldn’t be so worried about the dystopian future they are working towards: So you’re worried about an imaginary dystopian future based on an imaginary threat. Yet somehow you never seem to express any worry about the dystopian present being implemented _right now_ by the right, complete with the erosion of rights you keep claiming the left want. Restricted access to voting, support for sedition, “cancelling” the teaching of actual history, implementing laws designed to hurt women and transpeople, and that’s not to mention the whole “doing everything possible to encourage the spread of COVID” thing. Not even the dystopian future you keep positing is as bad as what the right are already putting in place… I guess IOKIARDI. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4836 "2021-09-14T19:45:54Z")
Waiting for “bzzzz” instead of a substantive response. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4837 "2021-09-14T19:49:25Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > that’s not to mention the whole “doing everything possible to encourage the spread of COVID” thing. He’s fighting the plague of wokism. Why would he worry about something trivial like COVID? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2021, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4838 "2021-09-14T20:49:58Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So you’re worried about an imaginary dystopian future based on an imaginary threat. Yet somehow you never seem to express any worry about the dystopian present being implemented _right now_ by the right, complete with the erosion of rights you keep claiming the left want. Restricted access to voting, support for sedition, “cancelling” the teaching of actual history, implementing laws designed to hurt women and transpeople, and that’s not to mention the whole “doing everything possible to encourage the spread of COVID” thing. Not even the dystopian future you keep positing is as bad as what the right are already putting in place… > > I guess IOKIARDI. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > He’s fighting the plague of wokism. Why would he worry about something trivial like COVID? Hey now! I can tolerate a lot, but don’t lump me in with the nutty anti-science wing of either party. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4839 "2021-09-15T00:16:21Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > don’t lump me in with the nutty anti-science wing of either party. The difference is that on the left, the “nutty anti-science wing” is a small and comparatively quite ineffective fringe of the party. On the right, the “nutty anti-science wing” IS the party. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4840 "2021-09-15T00:49:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > nutty anti-science wing of either party. Don’t blame you, I wouldn’t want to be either. BTW, is there an anti-science wing of the Democratic Party? Who are they so I can avoid them? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4841 "2021-09-15T01:26:27Z")
There’s not really a wing… But the original anti vaxers (the ones that said it causes autism) were more likely to be liberals. Same for the anti GMO crowd. Flat earthers are split 50/50, which is not a good look for liberals. Only 67% of Democrats believe in evolution. And about a quarter of those believe that evolution was guided by god. So…Americans in general have a less than stellar appreciation of science. It’s not the bailiwick of any party in particular. Eta: let’s not forget about crystals, and new age stuff, and reiki, and homeopathy… ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/4842 "2021-09-15T01:29:46Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Flat earthers are split 50/50 Where are you getting that from? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349.md?page=240) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349.md?page=242)