# Trolls R Us redux \[Now the argument clinic\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2020, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349 "2020-06-27T06:30:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1207 "2020-10-07T08:49:21Z")
I wouldn’t call that a trolling thread at all - he lays it all out in the OP, and not fighting the hypothetical isn’t an unreasonable request for that kind of thread. He’s right, and “there is no god” replies _would_ be threadshitting. And I say this as someone who thinks **Velocity** is generally crap. If you don’t like his thread setup, just ignore the damn thing. That’s what I did. I do think it should be in IMHO, not GD, though, because it’s just opinions, not witnessing. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1208 "2020-10-07T09:11:16Z")
I agree that Velocity has a habit of starting threads that, while not crossing the line into trolling, are clearly designed to rankle. Lots of “Let’s talk about how terrible the Democrats regarding this particular metric are BUT YOU CAN’T DISCUSS HOW COMPARATIVELY BAD THE REPUBLICANS ARE ON THE SAME METRIC” threads, delivered with a “gee golly gosh I just want to have a polite conversation” faux-innocence in the OP. Any one of those threads might be perfectly fine, but as a trend it starts to look a _wee bit_ like they may not be being posted in good faith. As I said, I wouldn’t classify it as trolling and I certainly have no objections to honest discussions about the failings of the Democratic Party, but I’m not buying the wide-eyed shtick that has been going with them. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1209 "2020-10-07T09:59:24Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > This is the **Fiddle\_Peghead** brand. > > He has seen no evidence that: > > - Trump has ever been involved in money laundering > - Trump is a Russian asset > - The Trump campaign colluded with Russia > - Trump obstructed justice > - Trump pressured Zelensky > - The Trump admin has hamstrung the post office > - Trump cheated on his taxes > - and much, much more > > No. Evidence. …don’t forget the time that Fiddle claimed that they wasn’t defending stop and frisk but perhaps it wasn’t really racist and Mike Bloomberg was just: > [@"Mike" Bloomberg Presidential campaign, 2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-bloomberg-presidential-campaign-2020/844048/145): > > someone is trying to save the lives of people, when he is _literally_ trying to keep people alive who would otherwise be killed due to crime in the city he was elected to protect, that he should get some credit for it That’s how Fiddle\_Peghead contextualised a racist policy that terrorized the lives of hundreds of thousands of people of colour in New York for a decade. Fiddle thinks the guy responsible should get some credit for it. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1210 "2020-10-07T11:01:37Z")
I agree that **Velocity** starts tons of ridiculous threads like that and they usually result in various reasonable people fighting each other. He screwed up this thread though – the discussion has been fun and interesting to me, with no in-fighting. I’m sure he’ll try harder next time to get us all to fight. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1211 "2020-10-07T11:03:37Z")
I think **Velocity** is a very young guy with very little life experience who is assuming he can just “reason out” all of the big difficulties in life and society, relying on stereotypes and the “common wisdom”, while missing the vast majority of the nuance of most issues. I think he means well but comes across as extremely naive and gullible to me. I don’t think he’s trying to troll. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1212 "2020-10-07T12:49:24Z")
I agree he’s not trying to troll, but is _extremely_ naïve. He also has a strawman view of liberals in his head. What most pisses me off about him is that he doesn’t engage in his own threads in any significant way, even to just say, “this is an interesting point” or “I still disagree, but this really does give me something to think about.” In his religious bigotry thread, he never really came back to let us know whether all the posts that disagreed with him affected his thinking, and he never came back to defend his view. That’s why it sometimes comes across as trolling to me – he drops some bomb and then runs away. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1213 "2020-10-07T12:55:20Z")
> [@"Mike" Bloomberg Presidential campaign, 2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-bloomberg-presidential-campaign-2020/844048/157): > > As I said: its almost as if black lives don’t matter. The narrative is crystal clear. And don’t forget the time that Banquet\_Bear put words in my mouth. Here, where he suggests black lives don’t matter to me. You see, when Banquet\_Bear can’t win an argument with evidence, he just makes shit up. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1214 "2020-10-07T12:59:40Z")
Wait. The guy I mentally called ‘For Unwanted CarnalKnowledge’ was banned? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1215 "2020-10-07T13:05:05Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > And don’t forget the time that Banquet\_Bear put words in my mouth. Here, where he suggests black lives don’t matter to me. …but black lives don’t matter to you. You defended the man who continued and escalated a racist policy that terrorized the lives of hundreds of thousands of people of colour in New York for a decade. I didn’t need to put the words into your mouth. You defended Bloomberg. You defended stop and frisk. The thousands of innocent people of colour abused by the system (and who continue, to this day) didn’t matter to you. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1216 "2020-10-07T13:12:30Z")
You never stop doing it, do you? Anyway, I felt it necessary to respond to your earlier post to defend myself, but I’m not interested in revisiting that thread here. I’ve said all I wanted to say on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1217 "2020-10-07T13:46:31Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’ve said all I wanted to say on the matter. Promises, promises. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1218 "2020-10-07T14:00:41Z")
😕 I’m confused. Banquet\_Bear brought this up again, not me. But rest assured, like all my promises, I will keep this one too. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1219 "2020-10-07T14:01:45Z")
\ ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1220 "2020-10-07T16:36:31Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I agree he’s not trying to troll, but is _extremely_ naïve. He also has a strawman view of liberals in his head. Short of coming out and saying “I’m just trying to get you people riled up,” I don’t know what else he could say. Only noob trolls straight up admit to trolling. Pretty much every “question” he “just asks” in GD in the form of a thread seems like a calculated effort at trolling, and often phrased in a way that seems calculated to force the discussion away from what ought to be the real issue. Of course I suppose I could start my own thread in which I invite Christians and other believers to come together and strive towards some sort of agreement, to all get their shit in once sock before they try and convince _me_, a nonbeliever, that I should believe in _their god_ but not all the others, but then if I did that, I know I’d be trolling. So I wouldn’t. Even if I could phrase it in such a way as to abuse forum rules to force discussion down that particular path with impunity. I hate bad faith arguments. I hate JAQ’ing off more. At least a bad faith argument puts forth a position which can be assailed directly. So there’s another layer of dishonesty to the kind of JAQ’ing off @Velocity appears expert in. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1221 "2020-10-07T16:42:48Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I agree that Velocity has a habit of starting threads that, while not crossing the line into trolling, are clearly designed to rankle. Right, trolling. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1222 "2020-10-07T16:59:44Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > So there’s another layer of dishonesty to the kind of JAQ’ing off @Velocity appears expert in. Well, that’s true. And, I guess someone can be sincere and still be a troll. And, not reengaging in your own threads, except to stir the pot even more is certainly trolling. So, OK, I’ll concede defeat and agree that, while he may not mean to do it, **Velocity** ’s threads are troll-y. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1223 "2020-10-07T17:24:24Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I hate JAQ’ing off more. At least a bad faith argument puts forth a position which can be assailed directly. So there’s another layer of dishonesty to the kind of JAQ’ing off @Velocity appears expert in. I do, too, but they’ve been allowed here forever. You’re expected to explain why they are in fact bad faith arguments. Trolling is restricted to trying to piss people off, not being insincere, or trying to force the direction of a thread. People loved @Bricker, but insincere arguments were his forte. I also even caught a mod making a certain bad faith argument: the one where you argue that people can have different opinions, which doesn’t in any way establish the different opinion as correct. It’s kinda why GD isn’t a fun forum to participate in. And why I hated that trans thread, where posters would make up shit other posters didn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1224 "2020-10-07T18:09:59Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I just really, really hate threads where the OP is a clear effort to abuse the “no threadshitting” rule to force people who would tend to take issue with the OP in some respect if they could discuss it openly to either (a) stay out, (b) accept a ridiculous proposition at face value and just roll with it, or `(c)` invite a warning. Bonus points when it gets people who hold a view distinct from the OP’s to argue amongst themselves, rather than focus on debunking bullshit claims elsewhere. > > @Velocity really is this forum’s apex troll in my book. I’m even willing to risk him seeing this and taking that as a compliment. You’re close, but @urbanredneck2 is the apex troll at this point in time. He’s allowed to take massive shits wherever he pleases, and he gets the usual suspects to engage to try to “correct” or “teach” him. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1225 "2020-10-07T18:35:25Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > You’re close, but @urbanredneck2 is the apex troll at this point in time. He’s allowed to take massive shits wherever he pleases, and he gets the usual suspects to engage to try to “correct” or “teach” him. Which begs the question: who is the greater troll, urbanredneck or urbanredneck2? Yeah, the fucker is too dumb to have got his accounts merged four months after the move to discourse 🤦‍♂️. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1226 "2020-10-07T18:39:31Z")
**octopus** is shitting all over the “woke” thread with ridiculous assertions about the left. His over-the-top rhetoric is distracting from an otherwise reasonable conversation. I’ve always been biased toward him because I love octopods, but that shit is just bonkers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349.md?page=62)