# Trolls R Us redux \[Now the argument clinic\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2020, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349 "2020-06-27T06:30:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 96
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1907 "2020-12-17T11:58:15Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Lol. That’ll sure show him he’s wrong about this place being an echo chamber! I don’t give a wet fart about showing him he’s wrong any more. He’s a disingenuous asshole–a bit like you in this respect–and if booting him means that we won’t have anyone arguing the “NO BUT YOUR TEH RACIST FOR SUPPORTING AFFIRMATIVE ACTION” side of issues any longer, somehow we’ll struggle on. The trade-off is worth it, if it means getting rid of disingenuous assholes. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1908 "2020-12-17T12:51:47Z")
See, I know I’m not disingenuous (other people are better placed to judge whether one is an asshole), so chances are you’re wrong about him, too. Like he said, you supposedly believe in structural racism, where something not intended to be racist nonetheless has racist effects, so why is it so hard to believe it might be happening in this case? Because it’s your ‘side’ who’re doing it? Because you don’t really believe what you say about unconcious bias? You _couldn’t possibly_ support a racist policy, because you’re the only person in the world immune to this stuff. 🙄 🙄 🙄 It’s a fucking joke. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1909 "2020-12-17T13:58:03Z")
I love how you claim you’re not disingenuous, and then type that steaming pile of a second paragraph. Chef’s kiss, **Demontree**. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1910 "2020-12-17T14:33:28Z")
Huh? That’s what I believe. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1911 "2020-12-17T14:37:04Z")
So cite the posts that you believe you’re accurately characterizing. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1912 "2020-12-17T14:43:52Z")
Not to mention I deleted the more insulting part! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1913 "2020-12-17T14:45:28Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > That’s what I believe. People who are intellectually lazy often don’t interrogate their own beliefs. Like Trump, they decide on what they’d like to be true and then jump on that as what they believe. It’s far easier than self-skepticism. And it’s so lazy that it’s a form of dishonesty. So sure, you might actually believe that. It’s still incredibly disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1914 "2020-12-17T14:59:15Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > You mean the guy who showed up in the thread solely to needle DA about some words he intended to delete and accidentally posted? > [@Kid gloves for woke posters](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-gloves-for-woke-posters/926840/121): > > I withdrawn my whine. Same sort of whine, different thread. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1915 "2020-12-17T15:00:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > People who are intellectually lazy often don’t interrogate their own beliefs. > > […] > > And it’s so lazy that it’s a form of dishonesty. > > So sure, you might actually believe that. It’s still incredibly disingenuous. What made me become an atheist is a religious person who I greatly respect (on issues other than religion, now) saying something to the effect of, “I realize that if I sat down and looked at the evidence, I couldn’t justify my own religious beliefs, but they are important to me, so I don’t do that”. That was a remarkable bit of introspection that I honestly don’t know if I could have matched unprompted. But once I heard this, I realized two things: 1. I was doing exactly the same thing 2. as you said - willfully refusing to interrogate your own beliefs is tantamount to intellectual dishonesty with yourself, and I couldn’t live with that. If I’m not honest with my own thoughts, what’s the point of having them in the first place? I think that sort of willful suppression of counter evidence in one’s own mind is extremely common, and that it is very important for all of us- myself included - to constantly reexamine our own beliefs. Any belief you won’t critically examine is worse than useless EVEN IF TRUE. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1916 "2020-12-17T17:04:34Z")
Well what you posted was the joke. And I agree with [Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness) [https://wtop.com/education/2020/08/elite-public-schools-in-virginia-elsewhere-seek-diversity/](https://wtop.com/education/2020/08/elite-public-schools-in-virginia-elsewhere-seek-diversity/) > The problem is most pronounced at the state’s two biggest governor’s schools, TJ and the Maggie Walker Governor’s School in Richmond. Out of roughly 1,300 students at TJ, only 31 are Black and 47 Hispanic — less than 2% and 3%, respectively. At Maggie Walker, Blacks make up about 7% of the student body, even though the Richmond-area population it serves has a much larger African-American population. Now, can you explain why it is then assumed that whites will benefit from the changes according to the twisted view of the opponents of diversity? The issue remains that black and Hispanic students are not represented well in the school. And then, why resort to bogeymen like CRT when schools do agree that changes are needed and there is no reason to reach for “scary” conspiracy theories? What is happening is really the reverse, whites are not the ones the proponents of change are looking to help, minorities that are not represented are. Accusations of that being racism are in reality a projection. And this is based on history and the still current racist administration and well funded groups that oppose change. History that tells us that there are white bigots that are manipulating a number of Asians so as to keep their status quo in a few schools. > **[Asians are being used to make the case against affirmative action. Again.](https://www.vox.com/2018/3/28/17031460/affirmative-action-asian-discrimination-admissions)** > > We are cast as victims in a pernicious story about race. > In short, conservatives are taking another swing at dismantling affirmative action — hoping the case makes it to the Supreme Court, where a new conservative majority could rule broadly and outlaw affirmative action. And, yet again, they are centering the debate around Asian Americans. > > This story, of racial bonuses and penalties due to affirmative action, has created an internal tension for Asian Americans: Many of us know race-conscious policies are necessary to remedy systemic racism. But we are also told that Asian Americans are penalized for those same policies. > > It’s a tension white affirmative action opponents have exploited, time and again, to make their argument against race-conscious policies and to seek a broader coalition for their movement. > > But if Asian Americans have long resisted being recruited to their cause, this latest campaign has a new wrinkle. “This time around, there is a wealthier, very small, and extremely vocal group of Asians who are on board — and very willing to play the part,” said Colorado State University education professor OiYan Poon, who has been studying this group. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1917 "2020-12-17T17:13:48Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > One of the main rules of this board is “Don’t be a jerk”, You need to realize that a jerk that agrees with you is still a jerk. Noone seems to follow that rule with respect to you. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > He’s a disingenuous asshole–a bit like you And you are a racist. You don’t think you are because your racism is hurting a group that you think is is doing well enough to handle a little racism. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The trade-off is worth it, if it means getting rid of disingenuous assholes. What you are trying to do is purify the echo chamber. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I love how you claim you’re not disingenuous, and then type that steaming pile of a second paragraph. Chef’s kiss, **Demontree**. Do you treat your asian students with the same contempt you show to the asian community in general? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > People who are intellectually lazy often don’t interrogate their own beliefs. Like Trump, they decide on what they’d like to be true and then jump on that as what they believe. It’s far easier than self-skepticism. And it’s so lazy that it’s a form of dishonesty. OMG the fucking irony ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1918 "2020-12-17T17:19:01Z")
If everyone you meet is an asshole, maybe you’re the asshole they are all part of a Librul Hivemind, Groupthink, 1984, Echo Chamber, STALIN EDITING PHOTOS, WOKE IS THE NEW NAZIAAAAAAAARGH _HEAD EXPLODES_ ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1919 "2020-12-17T17:24:15Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > Do you treat your asian students with the same contempt you show to the asian community in general? Are you so disingenuous to not know what the PIT is? Come to think of it that is the same disingenuousness that you show by denying where are you guys getting the unsupported declarations about CRT or the dog whistle insults that you are using. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1920 "2020-12-17T17:28:35Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Now, can you explain why it is then assumed that whites will benefit from the changes according to the twisted view of the opponents of diversity? The issue remains that black and Hispanic students are not represented well in the school. You are without a doubt one of the dumbest posters on this site. You are the poster child for how this site coddle stupid progressives. Everyone knows how dumb you are so they don’t chime in to support your arguments but they don’t point out your idiocy either because you are “on their side” You writing is incomprehensible half the time and your cites are fucking jokes. They are mostly opinions you find on the internet that you agree with. You have never displayed independent thought of any kind. You have never exhibited the ability to reason or analyze anything. The only reason i keep engaging with you is because your arguments reveal the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of position and your character. You are literally defending a policy that would replace 200 asians with mostly unqualified white kids and you call that a victory because it will also increase the number of unqualified black and hispanic kids. That is racism. You are a racist. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And then, why resort to bogeymen like CRT when schools do agree that changes are needed and there is no reason to reach for “scary” conspiracy theories? CRT is a lot of what is driving the race focused policies in education today. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And this is based on history and the still current racist administration and well funded groups that oppose change. History that tells us that there are white bigots that are manipulating a number of Asians so as to keep their status quo in a few schools. So you think white bigots are the ones creating schools that are 70%+ asian and 20% white? But it is the opponents of racism that want to turn the school 30% asians and 40% white? GFTOH. At some point you have got to do more than simply cite to internet opinion pieces. Pick out an argument raised in the article and defend it if you lack the intellect or imagination to come up with one of your own. But stand for something that can clearly be debated because serially linking internet opinions is fucking meaningless. This Alvin Chang guy is no more of an expert on any of this than any other random internet journalist. Make an argument. Defend it and see if it can withstand logic and reason. > [@Babale](#): > > If everyone you meet is an asshole, maybe you’re the asshole they are all part of a Librul Hivemind, You are about 2 steps above GIGObuster in that at least you make some independent observations from time to time, so you probably don’t need others to tell you what to think. But you are another poster that has never really made any arguments and defended them. You mostly jump on bandwagons and into dogpiles. You can safely be ignored. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Are you so disingenuous to not know what the PIT is? > > Come to think of it that is the same disingenuousness that you show by denying where are you guys getting the unsupported declarations about CRT or the dog whistle insults that you are using. Once again, noone understand what the fuck you are saying. I once thought maybe english was your second language or something but nope. You’re just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1921 "2020-12-17T17:29:20Z")
Anyway. Done with the pit for now. I don’t think the pit is useful for anything other than dogpiling on anyone that disrupts the echo chamber. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1922 "2020-12-17T17:30:41Z")
snowflake. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1923 "2020-12-17T17:31:24Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > Anyway. Done with the pit for now. I don’t think the pit is useful for anything other than dogpiling on anyone that disrupts the echo chamber Good work, bzz bzz. We have driven the heretic from our hive’s territory, bzz bzz. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1924 "2020-12-17T17:33:10Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > But you are another poster that has never really made any arguments and defended them. You mostly jump on bandwagons and into dogpiles. You can safely be ignored You’re right, I don’t make arguments and defend them; all I do is throw around alt-Right buzzwords like “echo chamber” or “critical race theory” with the fig leaf of “bOtH sIdEs Do iT”. No, wait, that’s YOU! I guess all these echoes damaged my memory. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1925 "2020-12-17T17:35:10Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Now, can you explain why it is then assumed that whites will benefit from the changes according to the twisted view of the opponents of diversity? The issue remains that black and Hispanic students are not represented well in the school. Because white students are also notably underrepresented at the school according to share of the population, the lottery will replace a lot of better qualified Asian students with less qualified white ones. What do you call the sort of ‘affirmative action’ that does that? And what’s this from your article? > Many families take extraordinary early steps to get into TJ. Principal Ann Bonitatibus told the task force that some overseas elementary and middle schools even market themselves on their ability to prepare kids for the magnet school. ‘Foreigners stealing our school places’? I thought that sort of thing was the other party’s shtick… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349/1926 "2020-12-17T17:36:26Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > > He’s a disingenuous asshole–a bit like you > > And you are a racist. You don’t think you are because your racism is hurting a group that you think is is doing well enough to handle a little racism. Well, there it is **LHoD** , I will have to thank damuriajashi for admitting that yep, he does think that all others complaining about how he “discusses” things are racists. So much about his fig leaf in GD when he said that we are just following racist “policies”. Why no, we are not being called racists. 🙄 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349.md?page=95) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trolls-r-us-redux-now-the-argument-clinic/913349.md?page=97)