# Tropic of Sir Gallahad **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2000, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550 "2000-03-29T13:19:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/61 "2014-04-04T19:53:47Z")
I realize this is an old thread but I would like to pit Train against America for the title of “Most Stupid Lyrics”. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/62 "2014-04-04T19:54:40Z")
> [@Mr.Zambezi](#): > > Not to mention that Miller ripped off several songs and later refused to give vcredit to the original artists. Very bad form. Which songs in particular? The “pompatus of love” bit was lifted from an earlier R&B song, but appropriating one line and referencing it isn’t the same as ripping off an entire song. (Cecil wrote a [column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/972/in-steve-millers-the-joker-what-is-the-pompatus-of-love) on this that gives the entire back story…and also spells the word in question correctly.) For ripping off entire songs and refusing to give credit (or remuneration) to the originals, see Led Zeppelin. In the world of rock, they have no equal for this. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/63 "2014-04-04T20:56:40Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > Which songs in particular? > > The “pompatus of love” bit was lifted from an earlier R&B song, but appropriating one line and referencing it isn’t the same as ripping off an entire song. (Cecil wrote a [column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/972/in-steve-millers-the-joker-what-is-the-pompatus-of-love) on this that gives the entire back story…and also spells the word in question correctly.) > > For ripping off entire songs and refusing to give credit (or remuneration) to the originals, see Led Zeppelin. In the world of rock, they have no equal for this. Can you give a short list for LZ, or provide a link? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/64 "2014-04-04T21:11:59Z")
“The Tropic of Sir Galahad” sounds like the long-lost sequel to Henry Miller’s _Tropic of Cancer_, the notoriously sexually open book that was banned in the US for many years. Maybe it concerned the exploits of Sir Galahad in Castle Anthrax, years before _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_ was even conceived of. There is a sorta weird connection, in that the title of the novel “Tropic of Cancer” doesn’t really make much sense, either. Miller wasn’t connecting it to the geographical feature with that name which marks the most northerly extent at which the sun can be directly overhead > [@](#): > > Miller gave the following explanation of why the book’s title was Tropic of Cancer: "It was because to me cancer symbolizes the disease of civilization, the endpoint of the wrong path, the necessity to change course radically, to start completely over from scratch.”[ > **[Tropic of Cancer (novel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropic_of_Cancer_(novel))** > > Tropic of Cancer is an autobiographical novel by Henry Miller that is best known as "notorious for its candid sexuality", with the resulting social controversy considered responsible for the "free speech that we now take for granted in literature." It was first published in 1934 by the Obelisk Press in Paris, France, but this edition was banned in the United States. Its publication in 1961 in the United States by Grove Press led to obscenity trials that tested American laws on pornograph I am liv... In other words, Miller liked the sound of it, and had in mind the disease, not the astronomical and astrological sign and its astronomical significance. The only way he’s an improvement on “America” is that there really IS something called the Tropic of Cancer, while there isn’t an actual Tropic of Sir Galahad. ---
**Author:** ![Marks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce73a5/32.png) [@Marks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marks)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/65 "2014-04-04T22:29:42Z")
America songlyrics`s finest trick is to provide a secret to the listener’s perception. Albums “Silent Letter”, “Alibi”, “View from the Ground” and “Your Move” are good examples of that. Steve Miller does the same. Album “Book of Dreams”. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/66 "2014-04-04T22:54:39Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Can you give a short list for LZ, or provide a link? Just curious. Led Zeppelin stole the following: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JyvLsutfI5M/hqdefault.jpg "Led Zeppelin Plagiarism Part 1") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvLsutfI5M) ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/67 "2014-04-04T22:56:16Z")
There might actually be a real answer to this. Alfred Lord Tennyson wrote a poem called “Sir Galahad,” a great deal of which is a description of a strange vision that Galahad has, not unlike the vision that is described in the rest of the song “Tin Man.” Sir Galahad is moved to go on a quest by his vision, just like the Tin Man was on a quest for a heart (which he didn’t have-- the reference is to the MGM movie, not the original book). Anyway, the song is a series of free associations regarding visions and quests inspired by visions, and an invitation to stick with the narrator if you believe him, and he’ll take you somewhere. Maybe into the desert on a horse with no name. ---
**Author:** ![Marks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce73a5/32.png) [@Marks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marks)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/68 "2014-04-05T01:06:46Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > There might actually be a real answer to this. Alfred Lord Tennyson wrote a poem called “Sir Galahad,” a great deal of which is a description of a strange vision that Galahad has, not unlike the vision that is described in the rest of the song “Tin Man.” Sir Galahad is moved to go on a quest by his vision, just like the Tin Man was on a quest for a heart (which he didn’t have-- the reference is to the MGM movie, not the original book). Anyway, the song is a series of free associations regarding visions and quests inspired by visions, and an invitation to stick with the narrator if you believe him, and he’ll take you somewhere. Maybe into the desert on a horse with no name. * * * Perfect, RivkahChaya. ---
**Author:** ![madmac17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@madmac17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmac17)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/69 "2016-05-02T16:59:46Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Steve Miller Band sucked ass. They had the best intros and the worst lyrics I’ve ever heard. The only halfway decent tunes they did were “Fly Like An Eagle”, and _maybe_ “Keep On Rockin’ Me Baby”, although I suspect the musicians were drunk or high when they recorded. Or maybe not drunk or high enough. I disagree. I think SMB had many good songs even better than the ones you mentioned: Living in the USA, My Dark Hour, Your Saving Grace, Going to Mexico, Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around, Evil, and an excellent cover of Come On in My Kitchen. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/70 "2016-05-02T17:45:24Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > This group may have the worst all-around set of lyrics for their body of work of any group, ever. > just read the lyrics to ‘Horse with No Name’ ‘Ventura Highway’, 'Tin Man". Gah. They may have been stoned, or more likely just hooked up with terribly poor writers. Songs were catchy tho. Back in college, I did photography for the student paper, so I saw a lot of concerts. Most of them suffered from the usual rock concert problems – over loud, muffled lyrics, crappy sound systems (with a special shout out to Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes who not only sucked, but had a roadie who threatened to smash my camera). America, on the other hand, had the cleanest production I’ve ever heard for a concert. Very enjoyable and I didn’t have tinnitus afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/71 "2016-05-03T00:12:09Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Originally posted by Jinx: > Well, there is that line about “The pompatus of love.” > > There there’s accusations he ripped off - I mean, was heavily influenced by a lot of other artists. Who did he rip off? Steve Miller made lots of great music if you were listening. Kow Kow Calculator Babys callin me home ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/72 "2016-05-03T00:13:12Z")
[![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5lp7x6rmHgM/hqdefault.jpg "Steve Miller Band - Kow Kow") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lp7x6rmHgM) [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg69ZICiqBE) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/73 "2016-05-03T00:24:47Z")
Steve Miller did indeed have many good songs – but next to nothing after _Number 5_. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/74 "2016-05-03T01:04:58Z")
Regarding the ‘alligator lizards in the air’ lyric, IIRC the song’s writer said it refers to cloud formations he watched as a boy while his father changed a flat tire. Apropos of nothing much, I was one of the first people in the country to hear music by America. A high school friend had joined the army and just prior to his discharge was stationed in Germany, where America was becoming popular after becoming known in the Netherlands, where they had moved from England to hone their craft. This was somewhere around early '71. My friend brought their album home to the U.S. and played if for me, telling me that they were being groomed to become the next big thing in music in the U.S. I liked their sound but thought it was kind of lightweight and didn’t pay much attention to his claims of their impending success. I was wrong. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/75 "2016-05-03T01:08:14Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Steve Miller did indeed have many good songs – but next to nothing after _Number 5_. Agreed. But I want you to listen to this: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt1eQnNwIF0) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/76 "2016-05-04T08:34:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > My friend brought their album home to the U.S. and played if for me, telling me that they were being groomed to become the next big thing in music in the U.S. I liked their sound but thought it was kind of lightweight and didn’t pay much attention to his claims of their impending success. That first album was really good. And commercially perfect in the post-CSN world. (Never understood why anybody thought they sounded like Neil Young.) Three writers, three lead singers, solid harmonies, lots of guitar with Stills as a big influence, and hooks all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/77 "2016-05-04T11:49:55Z")
“There were plants and birds and rocks and things”. _THINGS_, I tell you! **Unspeakable** things, beyond the ken of mortal man! Out there, in the desert! Mark my words, young man, and beware! ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/78 "2016-05-05T16:57:35Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That first album was really good. And commercially perfect in the post-CSN world. (Never understood why anybody thought they sounded like Neil Young.) Three writers, three lead singers, solid harmonies, lots of guitar with Stills as a big influence, and hooks all over the place. ? Horse with no name sounded exactly like Neil Young fronting CSN. Not even an asterisk there. ---
**Author:** ![GeeWillickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@GeeWillickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GeeWillickers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/79 "2018-12-25T16:20:52Z")
Tropic of Sir Galahad aside, I mean I understand from personal experience the effects of the ingestion of illegal substances on conversations much less the writing of song lyrics. The 70’s were definitely a unique era. So I don’t really have an answer for that particular lyric, nor probably does the writer. At any rate I did want to use this discussion to mention a couple of my personal favorites out a long list of awesome lyrics. The first being a Bob Seger line from Night Moves as follows: “Working on mysteries without any clues.” Another one would be from Bob’s song Against the Wind as follows: “I wish I didn’t know now what I didn’t know then.” Clever word plays both. His lyrics are one of the reasons his songs endure as classics. His passion in performance being another. His songs evoke such such strong memories for me. Which is what great songs do. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550/80 "2018-12-26T01:10:56Z")
Whoa, a zombie hijack! That’s a pretty interesting first post, **GeeWillickers**! (It’s a zombie because this thread hasn’t been posted in for over 2.5 years. It’s a hijack because it’s not discussing the subject of the original thread.) Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board, **GeeWillickers**. Have fun poking around and posting! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tropic-of-sir-gallahad/9550.md?page=5)