# Trotsky. For the lack of God, Trotsky. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914 "2007-05-29T14:36:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/101 "2007-05-29T17:01:54Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] Name one leftist here that would slit someone’s throat. [/quote] Yeah, like a leftist physician with a patient needing a tracheotomy would even hesitate. Throat-slitting bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/102 "2007-05-29T17:02:23Z")
[QUOTE=Trotsky] I gave a source, what you got? [/QUOTE] I’ll see your Iraqi intelligence officer, and [raise you a US Major General](http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/05/06/09/168406.html): > [@](#): > > A senior US military chief has admitted “good, honest” Iraqis are fighting American forces. > > … > > “I think there is a small core of foreign fighters. I don’t know how big that is but there is some kind of capability here, and it’s being replenished.” > > … > > General Taluto said “99.9 per cent” of those captured fighting the US were Iraqis, but was also adamant most people in Iraq wanted a free, democratic and independent country. Read the[well-documented Wikipedia article on foreign fighters in Iraq](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_insurgency#Foreign_insurgents): > [@](#): > > While it is not known how many of those resisting the U.S. occupation in Iraq are from outside the country, it is generally agreed that foreign fighters make up a very small percentage of the insurgency. Major General Joseph Taluto, head of the 42nd Infantry Division, said that “99.9 per cent” of captured insurgents are Iraqi.[21] The estimate has been confirmed by the Pentagon’s own figures; in one analysis of over 1000 insurgents captured in Fallujah, only 15 were non-Iraqi.[4] According to the Daily Telegraph, information from military commanders engaging in battles around Ramadi exposed the fact that out of 1300 suspected insurgents arrested in five months of 2005, none were non-Iraqi, although Colonel John Gronski stated that foreigners provided money and logistical support: “The foreign fighters are staying north of the [Euphrates] river, training and advising, like the Soviets were doing in Vietnam”[5] In September 2006, the Christian Science Monitor reported, “It’s true that foreign fighters are in Iraq, such as the late Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. But they are a small minority of the insurgent force, say administration critics. Most Iraqi mujahideen are Sunnis who fear their interests will be ignored under Iraq’s Shia-dominated government. They are fighting for concrete, local political goals - not the destruction of America.” The paper quoted University of Michigan history professor Juan Cole: “If the Iraqi Sunni nationalists could take over their own territory, they would not put up with the few hundred foreign volunteers blowing things up, and would send them away or slit their throats.”[22] It is not just left wing opinion, check out the cites for all the claims made. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/103 "2007-05-29T17:04:39Z")
This guy’s so comically overblown that I have a hard time believing he is what he says he is. If I’m wrong, well, then, it isn’t like we don’t already have posters who offer contentless posts, saying nothing but their opinion about how awfully liberal the board is. At least he doesn’t offer faux regards with each post. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/104 "2007-05-29T17:04:39Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] No, it i… OK, I’m noting a disturbing trend lately. The next person to blow the setup on a Monty Python straight line gets warned. :mad: [/QUOTE] Oh, you’re no fun anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Trotsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@Trotsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trotsky)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/105 "2007-05-29T17:06:06Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] _Jesus_. Anyway, **Trotsky** , you seem to have inadvertently missed my cites. Could I ask for a response? [/QUOTE] Well, I can’t see much of interest. I’m not a libertarian. I like some small government support systems for the populace. About 1/5 or so of what we have, and mostly at the state level, but.. I like the movements that France seems to be taking lately. Dunno what more I can say on the global economic market in this context. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/106 "2007-05-29T17:06:39Z")
The Internet: Nobody knows if you’re a dog. Everybody knows if you’re a jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Trotsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@Trotsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trotsky)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/107 "2007-05-29T17:07:34Z")
[QUOTE=Steve MB] The Internet: Nobody knows if you’re a dog. Everybody knows if you’re a jackass. [/QUOTE] Everyone knows the score within a few dozen posts, that is for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/108 "2007-05-29T17:08:41Z")
[QUOTE=Trotsky] Well, I can’t see much of interest. I’m not a libertarian. I like some small government support systems for the populace. About 1/5 or so of what we have, and mostly at the state level, but.. I like the movements that France seems to be taking lately. Dunno what more I can say on the global economic market in this context. [/QUOTE] You seem to have missed the point. My argument was that all liberal countries have capitalist systems. Thus, I would claim that “liberalism” and “capitalism” are actually very closely linked. Now that I have provided cites for my claim, would you tend to agree or disagree with it? ---
**Author:** ![Trotsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@Trotsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trotsky)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/109 "2007-05-29T17:11:16Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] You seem to have missed the point. My argument was that all liberal countries have capitalist systems. Thus, I would claim that “liberalism” and “capitalism” are actually very closely linked. Now that I have provided cites for my claim, would you tend to agree or disagree with it? [/QUOTE] Sigh.. A capitalist system in some way is _required_ for human economy. No matter how communist a system may want to be, the capitalist system will creep back in and take over. Now, people may try to fight it, foolishly. That is what I bitch about. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/110 "2007-05-29T17:12:00Z")
[QUOTE=Trotsky] I prefer some sources and facts, thanks. [/QUOTE] Well, since you didn’t read the cites, I guess I’ll step up and spoonfeed you facts. Major General Joseph Taluto said that “99.9 percent” of those he captured fighting Americans were Iraqis. [Cite.](http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/05/06/09/168406.html) He also said he could understand why “good, honest” Iraqis would want to try to force the US out of Iraq through violent means. Commie! There’s a commie in the armed forces! Whoops. Now I see that this has already been quoted. That’s what happens when I take 10 mins to write a post while eating lunch. A _Marxist_ lunch. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/111 "2007-05-29T17:12:12Z")
[QUOTE=Trotsky] I’m not a libertarian. [/QUOTE] Words cannot express my levels of satisfaction and gratitude. ---
**Author:** ![Trotsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@Trotsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trotsky)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/112 "2007-05-29T17:14:28Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] Well, since you didn’t read the cites, I guess I’ll step up and spoonfeed you facts. Major General Joseph Taluto said that “99.9 percent” of those he captured fighting Americans were Iraqis. [Cite.](http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/05/06/09/168406.html) He also said he could understand why “good, honest” Iraqis would want to try to force the US out of Iraq through violent means. Commie! There’s a commie in the armed forces! Whoops. Now I see that this has already been quoted. That’s what happens when I take 10 mins to write a post while eating lunch. A _Marxist_ lunch. [/QUOTE] I’m not overly surprised either way, frankly. Doesn’t matter. heh.. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/113 "2007-05-29T17:15:04Z")
[QUOTE=Trotsky] Sigh.. A capitalist system in some way is _required_ for human economy. No matter how communist a system may want to be, the capitalist system will creep back in and take over. Now, people may try to fight it, foolishly. That is what I bitch about. [/QUOTE] Then I point out to you China and North Korea. Both are conservative nations. Neither are capitalist in nature. Thus I suggest to you that in fact conservatism is _less_ likely to be linked to capitalism than liberalism. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/114 "2007-05-29T17:15:31Z")
[QUOTE=Trotsky] I like the movements that France seems to be taking lately. [/QUOTE] You call yourself a conservative, and yet you’re here saying nice things about France? Phoney. ---
**Author:** ![Trotsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@Trotsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trotsky)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/115 "2007-05-29T17:15:40Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Words cannot express my levels of satisfaction and gratitude. [/QUOTE] Me too, liberaltarians are about as bad as marxist-leninists. One has to be thankful for not being involved in pure idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/116 "2007-05-29T17:16:03Z")
[QUOTE=Trotsky] Now, people may try to fight it, foolishly. That is what I bitch about. [/QUOTE] Liberals DON’T try to “fight it,” moron, that’s the point. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/117 "2007-05-29T17:16:27Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] Well, since you didn’t read the cites, I guess I’ll step up and spoonfeed you facts. Major General Joseph Taluto said that “99.9 percent” of those he captured fighting Americans were Iraqis. [Cite.](http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/05/06/09/168406.html) He also said he could understand why “good, honest” Iraqis would want to try to force the US out of Iraq through violent means. Commie! There’s a commie in the armed forces! Whoops. Now I see that this has already been quoted. That’s what happens when I take 10 mins to write a post while eating lunch. A _Marxist_ lunch. [/QUOTE] Stop confusing him with facts. Facts are inherently Islamic and radical, therefore they are to be avoided. We are fighting the facts over there so Trotsky doesn’t have to here. ---
**Author:** ![Trotsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@Trotsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trotsky)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/118 "2007-05-29T17:16:58Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Then I point out to you China and North Korea. Both are conservative nations. Neither are capitalist in nature. Thus I suggest to you that in fact conservatism is _less_ likely to be linked to capitalism than liberalism. [/QUOTE] You’re playing with the definitions. I can call Nazi Germany liberal, since they were for socialism and central planning. I don’t care to get into such trollish sophist debates. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/119 "2007-05-29T17:17:58Z")
[QUOTE=Trotsky] Me too, liberaltarians are about as bad as marxist-leninists. One has to be thankful for not being involved in pure idiocy. [/QUOTE] Uh-oh. Don’t. Poke. the Bear. ---
**Author:** ![Trotsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@Trotsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trotsky)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914/120 "2007-05-29T17:18:02Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] Stop confusing him with facts. Facts are inherently Islamic and radical, therefore they are to be avoided. We are fighting the facts over there so Trotsky doesn’t have to here. [/QUOTE] Wow, so mature. I admire you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trotsky-for-the-lack-of-god-trotsky/405914.md?page=7)