# Trouble in Paradise (Mafia Game Thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [October 23, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585 "2015-10-23T22:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/401 "2015-11-04T06:55:13Z")
It is taking much more time to put together my analysis than I originally thought it would. I will post what I have tomorrow night after work – with a vote. I will say this. I think we have a lot of good and suggestive information for so early in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/402 "2015-11-04T13:16:12Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > Solid, timely, and on a tablet no less. Thanks for the post. > > For what it’s worth, I find Mahaloth a hard read. His posts are brief and don’t contain deep analysis but they can contain good insights or ask good questions. I have a slight town lean, but with reservation. > > Dead Cat is quickly moving up the townie meter for me. Solid analysis, follow-up on promises, was right in calling for Prof P to be lynched. I always suspect people who think I’m Town. I find support suspicious. > [@Biotop](#): > > I will say this. I think we have a lot of good and suggestive information for so early in the game. We do? Now, I can’t wait to see what you think we have. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/403 "2015-11-04T13:50:04Z")
Wow, I had not idea how _hard_ this game is - I’m putting way more time in to it than I thought I would. Which is great, of course, because it means I’m having a lot of fun with it. More than once now I’ve typed up a post and on review realised I have leaned both scum and town on the same player in that post! This is going to be long so bear with me, but here are some quotes I have picked out pages 3-7 that I think could be important. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Whew. Okay, at the moment the bottom of the post count is: > > WF Tomba 5 > Octarine 5 > Sario 5 > IRConfused 5 > > **If** I was voting now, I would skip over Octarine and IRConfused, since they are new, and new players lurk instinctively, or at least did in the last two games. Both of the others should know not to lurk by now, so I’d probably vote for Tomba, since voting for Sario might look like a retaliation vote. This is interesting - a (now) confirmed scum, pursuing lynch the lurker because it suits his game, listing lurkers. He also says he won’t vote for Sario in case it looks like retaliation, then later votes for Sario anyway and lists retaliation as one of his reasons! But can we read anything into that? Well, my read on it is that “the others should know not to lurk by now” (i.e. WFTomba, as he then excludes Sario) is a hint for them to get on and post lots, because wolf strategy this game is going to be lynch the lurker (as dictated by the Prof’s posting style, really). Obviously being day 1, they can’t have agreed to this in secret (I think - or are wolves allowed to chat privately on night 0?), so this is Prof P explaining to his team-mate WFTomba that this is the way it’s going to go down. Just a theory. > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > I don’t know what exactly there is to address, **Astral**. Obviously there is a plausible innocent explanation for what you’re doing, but for a good Scum player, there always is. From my point of view, it looks like preparation for a later push against me. > > For the record, here is the theory you tried to shoot down: > It’s a suggestion that **Prof. Pepperwinkle** is guilty of “perfect information syndrome”. If this were to be accepted as a clue by other players, it would have the side effect of implying that **Biotop** and I are Town. Your casting doubt on it thus fits the pattern of Scum preparing for a future push to lynch me. As Astral pointed out nearer the time, this is a confusing post. It looks to me like WFT is over-thinking it. Both seem scummy characteristics (confusion and over-thinking) to me. > [@Octarine](#): > > Stuff has happened, but without concrete events (aka kills/lynches) it’s all too easy to overthink yourself into a hole. I wasn’t posting because I wasn’t sure I was right - but seeing as “not being sure” is one of the core tenants of Mafia . . . > > Previously I was leaning towards either the **Prof** or **IRConfused**. The \*\*Prof \*\*mainly due to jumping to Lynch the Lurker (a valid tactic) VERY early in the game, and \*\*IRConfused \*\*due to low post count (not that I can talk), the **Sario** throwaway vote, and general gut feeling. > > **Suburban Plankton** ’s comment about the cheese jokes being a possible tell - trying too hard to seem casual - struck me as discerning, putting **snfaulkner** and **Precambrian** into the mix. Still, for whatever reason my gut is telling me to go for **IRConfused**. So, tentatively . . . > > \*\*Vote IRConfused. \*\* I like this post, and while I may have said so before, on re-reading it still gives me a warm town feeling, coupled with the fact Octarine was named on Prof P’s shortlist above (albeit with a plausible get-out, so nowhere near confirmed town yet). > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > I’m torn about Lynch the Lurker. In the last game, I pursued that strategy forthrightly, and it turned out in hindsight to be a decent strategy … yet the lurker I focused on the most was **Mahaloth** , who turned out to be Town. > > But what’s even worse is that I am myself a bit of a lurker, if you go by post counts. I just tend to be succinct, and I can’t generate the extensive verbiage that some players do. I think if you all review my posts in this game, though, you will find that I am doing my best not to hide. > > I still stand behind everything I have said or suggested in this thread: **Astral** and **Mahaloth** are dangerous players, **Astral** appears to be laying the groundwork for a Scum push against me, and **Dante G** ’s confusion over whether he had voted (for me!) might be scummy. > > I am also starting to be suspicious of **Prof. Pepperwinkle**. Getting your excuses in early? The only puzzling thing, if we assume WFT is a wolf, is suspicion of Prof P. But it’s early on day one so I don’t put much weight on that. > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > I just saw there was a new post by **Johnny Bravo** in the Thread Games forum, and clicked on it thinking it was in this thread. Then I realized it was in the Forbidden Thread! I clicked back immediately, and didn’t see anything of note. He was just remarking on how he enjoys being the game moderator. At the time I said this gave me a town lean, but now I’m not so sure. It could be a ploy to look “honest” from someone who by definition is actually not. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > **Prof P.** This seems to rub me, and a few others a bit…wrong. Can you explain what you mean by casting a “cover-my-ass vote”? > [@snfaulkner](#): > > Ok, I still don’t quite get how you casting a vote will stop you from getting lynched if you have the most votes. It’s not like you have voted for yourself. In that case I see recasting a your vote somewhere else would take a vote off of you. > > I don’t _yet_ think you are trying to be deliberately misleading. I’m still fairly certain I’m a rookie and just missing something in your reasoning. However, your willingness to explain does make lean more towards town for you…or at least less wolf-filth… > [@snfaulkner](#): > > But NOW I’m thinking, this means you’d hop on a bandwagon and lynch anyone for no good reason other than to save your own skin…Now THAT smells VERY wolfie! > > **UNVOTE PRECAMBRIAN** > > **VOTE PROF PEPPERWINKLE!** > > Please feel free to dissuade me. I thought I smelt a whiff of wolf and this may be a panic vote. “Please feel free to dissuade me” - because I know you’re my team-mate and I want a good reason to change my vote later? I think these posts could very easily be from a wolf trying to look town. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Well, when you have your choice of lurkers, why not vote for the one that’s the most emotionally satisfying? Or, as it turns out, why not vote for one who is town? Which does cast a slight shadow over the others named in the post above. > [@Dante\_G](#): > > Not sure, but I can almost guarantee it is high. The only people that know for sure who are Scum are the Scum players, so the rest of players left grasping at anything in peoples posts that may seem Scum like. This is the main reason that I was never really for Day 1 lynches, but I don’t make the rules when I play, so I got to go with the program. > > I do think that next time I run a game, I will change up the way a lynch is decided based on what Day it is. Most people seem to agree day one lynches are a net positive for town, so is it a scummy move to argue against it? > [@Dante\_G](#): > > One thing I’ve noticed with some players is not necessarily the quantity of their posts as much as the quality. > > Prof. P, Hooker, Astral, Dead Cat, Biotop and Texcat have all had 1 or more posts that are substantial and full of quotes from other players as well as their own detailed analysis of those posts. Now, to me, that seems like a very Town thing to do. It may or may not be these players usual styles, as I am not sure since I am new to this board. > > My point is that if a player is Scum, it just seems like a lot of work to post these kind of posts so early in the game. I know Scum wants to appear Town and look all innocent, but still, I don’t see why they’d go through sooo much trouble. > > Maybe its because I never really post that way myself that I feel like it is a lot of work. Could be wrong, Lord knows I’ve been wrong before. Making an excuse for why he might not look townie. Smells a bit off to me. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > **Prof. Pep** , you’ve convinced me enough that my vote for you may be better spent somewhere else. > > **UNVOTE PROF PEPPERWINKLE** > > I’ve noticed this too. It seems like the perfect way to attempt to not lurk while lurking. > > **VOTE SARIO** > > Mind you this is only a very slight feeling that could easily be over-ridden. Also note, this has NOTHING to do with his past game wolfscumsihnesseseses. And lo and behold, the vote on the Prof disappears! > [@snfaulkner](#): > > So this is my Friday. And I’m on the west coast. So when end of Day rolls around at 9am my time, I’m fairly certain I’ll be hungover and asleep. I’ll check in periodically on my phone for the next few hours, but unless there is some crazy turn of events, I don’t expect I’ll be chiming in anymore until after end of Day. Good luck to all, except you filthy wolfscum pukes! Making excuses for lurking. > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > If I switched my vote to **Sario** , I would create a tie, which I don’t want to do. Is anybody else thinking that? If you’re a wolf, you certainly don’t want a tie that results in not lynching a townie. > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > **Dead Cat** convinced me. > > **Unvote Astral Rejection** > **Vote Sario** > > I was already thinking of moving my vote to the leading candidate (which at the time was **Prof. P** ) just to make a tie less likely. But you also convinced me that **Sario** is a better choice, my feelings about **Astral** and the **Prof.** notwithstanding. A pity that my incorrect switch gave this excuse for letting the Prof off the hook and lynching the innocent Sario instead. However, maybe this will help us in the long run. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > Setting my alarm for 830am. Though no promises ill actually get up for it. Or read this thread. Or be unbrain dead enough to properly comment. Another excuse for lurking. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I still think it is Biotop, but I see zippo case on Pepper. So I guess I’d prefer Sario. I don’t think we are going to tie, but I will vote to help make sure. > > \*\*unvote Biotop > \*\* > \*\*Vote Sario > \*\* > Sorry, Sario. Scum or not, it always sucks to die on Day 1. Believe me, I know. I’ve died tons on Day 1 both as scum and as town. We really have no clue and are just crossing our fingers. Well, some of us are/were. I’m still not sure if that is true for you. At this point I think several of the posts I had intended to multiquote have gone missing (I guess there is a limit), so this is TBC shortly for now. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/404 "2015-11-04T14:02:30Z")
Actually, further to the above post, I think that’s all I had after all. What it seems to amount to is strong suspicion of snfaulkner and WFTomba, and slight suspicion of Dante G and Mahaloth. In fact, that’s the order I’d put them in, in terms of most likely scum, at this point in the game (actually, maybe I could switch Mahaloth for IRConfused - but that’s fairly immaterial at this stage). Interestingly, these are all the people others have currently voted for (except IRC). The problem with that, of course, is that WFTomba and snfaulkner have voted for each other! If both are wolves, there is now point in them trying to engineer a tie, as that just guarantees one of them gets it. At the moment, and based on toDay’s postings, I’m inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to snfaulkner as a new player. Therefore: **VOTE WFTomba** After that, here’s an unofficial vote count: Dante G 2 (Precambrianmollusc, HookerChemical) snfaulkner 1 [del](Dante G),[/del] (WFTomba) WFTomba 5 (Suburban Plankton, Octarine, Dante G, snfaulkner, Dead Cat) Mahaloth 1 (IRConfused) By my reckoning that leaves three players yet to cast their vote at this stage. I’d be fairly comfortable with any of the above being lynched, so I may not post much more toDay (and certainly today, as I’m going out tonight). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/405 "2015-11-04T14:27:33Z")
\*\* Your official Wednesday morning vote count: WF Tomba - 5 votes: (Sub Plankton 372)(Octarine 377)(Dante G 378)(snfaulkner 384)(Dead Cat 404) Dante G - 2 votes: (Precambrianmollusc 365)(Hooker Chemical 379) Mahaloth - 1 vote: (IRConfused 376) snfaulker - 1 vote: (WF Tomba 386) \*\* ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/406 "2015-11-04T15:13:24Z")
I had time for a re-read yesterday and had a sleep on it. **First** up, the Astral kill I think might be due to his posts at the end of day. It is possible that scum thought there was something there. Plus he’d be in the scum kill pool anyway. [spoiler] > [@HookerChemical](#): > > Dear town, > > I’m interested in who you think would be most beneficial for a role like an investigator to target tonight. I think any of the top posters (me, Astral, Prof P, sfaulkner, WFTomba), would be a good target, but I’m interested if others think a low volume poster might be a better target (Mahaloth). > > (Asking for a friend.) > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m always very hesitant to suggest what our power roles should do. It gives scum a better idea of what might transpire at night as well. I just about always think it’s better just left up to them. > [@HookerChemical](#): > > I can see that for doctor, but I don’t see how they counter investigations. Some can be countered by not acting, but that assumes they have a solid enough read to know they should skip the action and at worst negates that action. Still, I’m interested in the discussion as the day wanes, be it “Hooker needs to be checked out!” or “Asking is a bad idea.” > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > There’s a role called the “watcher,” which is usually (but not always!) town-aligned. If we suggest that the investigator check out that scummy-looking **Johnny Bravo,** a potential scum watcher could decide that keeping an eye on whoever visits JB is a good idea. > > Similarly, if scum have to pick a killer to perform the kill, and we ask a town tracker to track that scum, they can make a different choice instead. I think there are a lot of downsides to collectively suggesting what our powers do. [/spoiler] **Second** , the Prof P voters. I’m putting **Biotop** in the firm town column. And I’m putting **PcMollusc and DeadCat** in the soft town column. I do note that DeadCat was the vote switch that moved the count from 5-4 for Prof P to 5-4 for Sario. And I note Burby’s comment (that he taught me the hard way during our last game together!) > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Scum can and will bus each other early on Day 1; don’t discount anyone on that account. I found DeadCat’s impassioned arguments for Prof P to be townie. I’m less sure of PcM who voted early and decided not to switch. \*\*Third \*\*are the ones who were never going to vote Prof P: **Mahaloth** and **Hooker**. They both claim that they just never saw the professor as scummy at all. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’m hardly Prof. P’s advocate, but I don’t get the scummy vibes at all. Are these just townies who had blinders on? Or scum subtly trying to protect their mate? I’m particularly leary of Hooker who attacked DeadCat with some theory about combativeness. Both of them seemed reluctant to support Prof P, but isn’t attacking his attackers the same as supporting him? **Fourth** are the Sario voters. **Tomba** stood out for me. > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > If I switched my vote to **Sario** , I would create a tie, which I don’t want to do. Is anybody else thinking that? Encouraging someone else to move to Sario. > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > **Dead Cat** convinced me. > > **Unvote Astral Rejection** > **Vote Sario** > > I was already thinking of moving my vote to the leading candidate (which at the time was **Prof. P** ) just to make a tie less likely. But you also convinced me that **Sario** is a better choice, my feelings about **Astral** and the **Prof.** notwithstanding. And then blaming DeadCat. I haven’t decided where to vote yet. I’d like to see Biotop’s thoughts first, but it will likely be Mahaloth, Hooker, or Tomba. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/407 "2015-11-04T16:19:34Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I always suspect people who think I’m Town. I find support suspicious. I don’t think I fall far from you on this one. I think it’s naive to not suspect everybody but confirmed (or practically confirmed) town. I’m shocked it took until TexCat’s post 406 to finally throw some suspicion my way after I missed the call on Prof P so badly yesterday. Good on TexCat for the paranoia. (It’s misplaced, but paranoia is good.) Speaking of paranoia, Dead Cat is making a compelling case for WF Tomba. I wanted us to put on the breaks and take a look at him earlier, but I’m satisfied that the case has been made on the following elements: [ol] [li]Paranoia about veteran players and proposing to off them early (especially Astral)[/li][li]The abundance of thin reasons not to get in on the Prof P/Sario discussion and lynch, which included suspicion of Astral, wanting to avoid a tie, thinness of Day One evidence.[/li][li]The timing of his vote. It made it 6-4 for a Sario lynch and making the Prof P lynch much more difficult (and potentially allowing him to throw suspicion on anybody who moved it to 6-5, but that was probably a side benefit).[/li][/ol] **UNVOTE DANTE G VOTE WF TOMBA** ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/408 "2015-11-04T17:01:54Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > As Astral pointed out nearer the time, this is a confusing post. It looks to me like WFT is over-thinking it. Both seem scummy characteristics (confusion and over-thinking) to me. _Au contraire!_ If there’s one thing I’ve learned from reading and playing Mafia on this board, it’s that confusion and over-thinking are townie characteristics. What do the wolves have to be confused about? I feel a responsibility to defend myself, and to try to prevent the mislynch that’s looking here. I’ve already explained my reasons for everything I’ve done in this game so far. I can’t force you to believe them. However, I can make the following additional points: First, it was sheer luck that we initially looked at **Prof. Pepperwinkle** as our first lynch target. I was slightly suspicious of him, but I never really got on board with the case against him, because there simply wasn’t much of a case. Second, the unpopular idea that I floated at the start of the game has taken on an interesting life. I would encourage you all to go back and read the actual post, to see what I actually proposed, and then compare it to how other posters have described my idea later. It’s been fascinating watching the idea get twisted and mutated. Is that Scum manipulation, or just Town sloppiness? ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/409 "2015-11-04T17:02:59Z")
\*mislynch that’s _building_ here. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/410 "2015-11-04T17:27:35Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > Second, the unpopular idea that I floated at the start of the game has taken on an interesting life. I would encourage you all to go back and read the actual post, to see what I actually proposed, and then compare it to how other posters have described my idea later. It’s been fascinating watching the idea get twisted and mutated. Is that Scum manipulation, or just Town sloppiness? Here’s the quote in its entirety. > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > I think it would be good to start picking which players are the most dangerous, based on their past history. By “dangerous” I mean not that they are likely to be Scum – there is obviously no basis for suspicion at this point – but that _if_ they were Scum, it would be hard to detect them. > > I believe **Astral Rejection** and **Mahaloth** are both dangerous players: the former because he played such a brilliant game last time, and the latter because he tends not to post much, apparently. I think you’re getting at fact that the above post doesn’t advocate “lynching” them, only “picking” them. I also interpreted it to refer to them as experienced players, though my initial response isn’t explicit about that either. Really, I’m not sure what implication your early post is trying to make if not those two things. I don’t see how “picking” a players is different from advocating a lynch. If you were trying to voice some generalized wariness about them (as I did Astral, and let me voice wariness of Mahaloth explicitly here), it doesn’t come across that way. How do you see your suggestion as being mischaracterized? ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/411 "2015-11-04T17:42:26Z")
I agree with Hooker on this analysis of Tombas old post. The way I always interpreted it, and still do upon reread, was that Tomba wants to bring attention to the players that are very good players of Mafia. To me it seems like a way for a Scum player to figure out his biggest threats and try to push for a lynch or in other ways to target them at night for Blocks or Kills. The thing is though, that by trying to get us to focus on other players, he instead got us focusing on him. Sticking to my Scum lean of Tomba. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/412 "2015-11-04T18:04:41Z")
I’m now going to take a look at **TexCat**. > [@TexCat](#): > > As Suburban and Hooker have pointed out, this is a bad idea, especially on Day One. Without any other indication, odds are that Astral and Mahaloth are both town. > > \*\*vote: Biotop \*\* > for his large Go Town! Piles on my idea, though apparently not understanding it. Fairly arbitrary Day 1 vote. Neutral post. > [@TexCat](#): > > We’re never going to have a lynch that’s 100% guaranteed. And I think we do have evidence. We have the evidence of Biotop trying a little too much to look town with his Go Town. We have the evidence of Prof P maligning Sario based on some reverse gambler’s falacy(?). We have the evidence of IRConfused agreeing with him and accusing Dead Cat of defending Sario. I think any of those 3 would make a better D1 vote than a LTL vote. This post seems slightly townie to me, although it wouldn’t be out of the question for a wolf to throw a little suspicion at a fellow wolf early on. > [@TexCat](#): > > Any thoughts on the game, Mahaloth?? Neutral. Encouraging lurkers to post more is pro-town, but this is also a risk-free participation post. > [@TexCat](#): > > I agree that we should remember it, but I’ve seen many a wolf try to use this to get a good townie killed. Talking strategy, avoiding taking a strong position. Slightly scummy. > [@TexCat](#): > > Yep. Generally, if you catch a breadcrumb, you should keep it to yourself and not point it out to scum. But in this case, I just think you’re wrong and that it’s not a breadcrumb. Neutral strategy post. > [@TexCat](#): > > I guess it really comes down to a judgement of whether the info is more use to town or to scum and how likely it is that scum actually did notice it. I still think in the case of a doctor crumb that the info is invaluable to scum and of not much use to town, and so I would remain mum about it. > Yep. I find this amazing in real life as well. > What’s that thing that all mutual funds say? _Past Performance is Not Necessarily Indicative of Future Results._ But what else do you have to judge a mutual fund with besides past performance. > > I agree that Prof P is giving off scum vibes. His buddying/mason post early in the game, his continued LTL posts. But I remember his play in Storyteller’s game. There were several people in the dead thread that thought that Prof P was scummy, scum, scum. Prof P could not possibly be a townie. But he was. And based on that scale, I don’t think he’s quite as likely to be scum this game. > Yea, I’m not sure that combative is the best word either, but in any case, I’m not sure that it’s indicative of scumminess. IIRC Plumpudding was town. And thin evidence on D1 may be the best we get. No reason not to have a strong opinion about it, in my book. Weakly defending **Prof. P** ; maybe a little scummy. > [@TexCat](#): > > **unvote Biotop** > > Thanks for that very nice post. > > I didn’t realize that I was against Lynch The Lurker. I went back to reread my post 62 and see that it does seem to say that. > > I was bothered by Prof P claiming that everything was guesswork and that it would be 2 or 3 Days (Days! meaning game Days, not days meaning 24 hours) before we had evidence. Prof P seems to be using this as an excuse not to analyze posts, not to make a real case, not to actually participate. > No consideration for the content of the posts? And being worried about how a vote might “look”? These are not the actions of a townie. And when Prof did vote and chose Sario instead, it was not based on some argument that Sario was more likely to be scum, it was emotionally satisfying. > > Prof. P does not seem to be interested in finding or lynching scum. > > **Vote: Prof P** Now this is a post I have a hard time imagining a wolf making. Why would they throw a comrade under the bus so early? Very townie post. > [@TexCat](#): > > ☹ I am in favor of more frequent vote counts, especially towards the end of Day. Neutral. Everyone likes more post counts. > [@TexCat](#): > > The thing is that even if you are determined to vote a lurker, I think you should still be looking for scum. You are a lurker IMHO, even though you are posting quite a bit. Actively lurking. You’re here, but not participating by looking for scum, examining and questioning posts. More pressure on a now-known wolf. > [@TexCat](#): > > Aaawww. Thank you! 🙂 Buttering up the mod? Neutral. > [@TexCat](#): > > I’m still thinking Prof P is scum and am leaving my vote there. I’ll check back in a few hours to see how we did. Still hammering on the Prof. This is either a Town player or a very ballsy wolf. > [@TexCat](#): > > I’m pretty sure we don’t have a third party serial killer. The win conditions in the OP don’t mention anything about a third party. General commentary on game setup is neutral. > [@TexCat](#): > > I had time for a re-read yesterday and had a sleep on it. **First** up, the Astral kill I think might be due to his posts at the end of day. It is possible that scum thought there was something there. Plus he’d be in the scum kill pool anyway. > > **Second** , the Prof P voters. I’m putting **Biotop** in the firm town column. And I’m putting **PcMollusc and DeadCat** in the soft town column. I do note that DeadCat was the vote switch that moved the count from 5-4 for Prof P to 5-4 for Sario. And I note Burby’s comment (that he taught me the hard way during our last game together!) > I found DeadCat’s impassioned arguments for Prof P to be townie. I’m less sure of PcM who voted early and decided not to switch. > \*\*Third \*\*are the ones who were never going to vote Prof P: **Mahaloth** and **Hooker**. They both claim that they just never saw the professor as scummy at all. > > Are these just townies who had blinders on? Or scum subtly trying to protect their mate? I’m particularly leary of Hooker who attacked DeadCat with some theory about combativeness. Both of them seemed reluctant to support Prof P, but isn’t attacking his attackers the same as supporting him? > **Fourth** are the Sario voters. **Tomba** stood out for me. > Encouraging someone else to move to Sario. > > And then blaming DeadCat. > > I haven’t decided where to vote yet. I’d like to see Biotop’s thoughts first, but it will likely be Mahaloth, Hooker, or Tomba. Pretty good post, slightly townie vibe, even though it casts suspicion on me. Conclusion: likely Town. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/413 "2015-11-04T18:09:40Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > I think you’re getting at fact that the above post doesn’t advocate “lynching” them, only “picking” them. I also interpreted it to refer to them as experienced players, though my initial response isn’t explicit about that either. Really, I’m not sure what implication your early post is trying to make if not those two things. I don’t see how “picking” a players is different from advocating a lynch. If you were trying to voice some generalized wariness about them (as I did Astral, and let me voice wariness of Mahaloth explicitly here), it doesn’t come across that way. How do you see your suggestion as being mischaracterized? If I had meant lynching, I’d have said lynching. (Why would you think I wouldn’t say what I mean, unless you’re assuming I’m scum?) “Generalized wariness” is a good way to sum up what I was trying to express. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/414 "2015-11-04T18:13:06Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > I agree with Hooker on this analysis of Tombas old post. The way I always interpreted it, and still do upon reread, was that Tomba wants to bring attention to the players that are very good players of Mafia. To me it seems like a way for a Scum player to figure out his biggest threats and try to push for a lynch or in other ways to target them at night for Blocks or Kills. The thing is though, that by trying to get us to focus on other players, he instead got us focusing on him. > > Sticking to my Scum lean of Tomba. A player who plays exactly the same way no matter which side he’s on is only a good _scum_ player. The ideal Townie would be someone whose manner changes blatantly depending on his alignment, so that the Town knows when they can trust him. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/415 "2015-11-04T18:31:38Z")
Rereading the thread, I noticed this early post from our lurkiest player: > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > OK, I’m caught up. First a housekeeping note: if I fall afoul of Rule 5, I’m a big fan of Pliny the Elder. > > Second, \*\*vote Dante G \*\*, because [random.org](http://random.org) told me to. > > I’m casting a sideways glance at **WF Tomba** for preparing a “people we ought to think about lunching, 'cause they would be really dangerous if they were Scum, ya know” list. Rule 5 is the rule that encourages participation. I wouldn’t say he’s fallen afoul of it yet, but he hasn’t been posting much. I am perplexed by the reference to Pliny the Elder. Is he saying that if he doesn’t participate enough, he wants to be killed by a volcanic eruption? ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/416 "2015-11-04T19:07:14Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > Rereading the thread, I noticed this early post from our lurkiest player:Rule 5 is the rule that encourages participation. I wouldn’t say he’s fallen afoul of it yet, but he hasn’t been posting much. I am perplexed by the reference to Pliny the Elder. Is he saying that if he doesn’t participate enough, he wants to be killed by a volcanic eruption? > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > 1. Please participate. Active participation – several posts per Day, and voting at least once – is the lifeblood of the game. Multiple methods may be used to handle nonparticipatory players – replacement, modkill, **bribes with beer** – but these will be according to the discretion of the moderator. Emphasis added. [Pliny the Elder](http://russianriverbrewing.com/brews/pliny-the-elder/). ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/417 "2015-11-04T19:55:55Z")
My spidey-senses told me that someone was in here talking about beer… I’ll be the first to admit that my participation wasn’t as good as it should have been on Day 1…I blame ‘real life’ for that. As for Day 2…we’ve still got plenty of time left, and I’ll be back later today (real world time) with any new revelations that I might glean from the Day’s posts But really, I think that the most important factors in considering other payers’ guilt or innocence comes from their voting records (unless you get lucky with an investigation of some sort) and so far those are still pretty sparse. I expect there will be more to say as the game progresses, when there’s more evidence to build on, and fewer people left to consider. For the moment, I’m happy with my vote as it stands. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/418 "2015-11-04T23:15:01Z")
So I’ve been trying to get through another re-read. And everytime I get to this: > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > Hmm. Is it scummy to forget that you haven’t voted for anyone? it pings my wolfdar harder and harder. I’m not sure how experienced a player **WF Tomba** is, but certainly more than I am. Might it be a legitimate question? possibly. But every time I read it, I hear my wife trying to manipulate me into doing some tedious chore. “don’t you think the trash needs to go out?” or “wouldn’t it be nice if the patio was cleaned?” or “Isn’t it great when all the bills are paid?”…yeesh, no wonder I agreed to come on this 3 hour tour to this island paradise. But anyway, personal issues aside, even when I try my hardest to read his posts as if he’s town, I can’t seem to do it. Today’s post all seem a bit flaily to me now. My vote for him is solid. **Dead Cat** , you made some compelling arguments today. I wasn’t quite paying attention when i first read them, since i had just gotten to work and had to deal with some stuff. But I was thinking to myself "if i wasn’t so solid on **WF Tomba** , I’d totally be looking more into this guy, **snfau** … OH SHIT, that’s ME! I’ll see if I can address your concerns later toDay, or even Today. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/419 "2015-11-04T23:23:52Z")
I will say that if you can’t catch scum, there are worse mislynches than me. I have no special powers and have already been notably wrong in this game. You won’t be losing a valuable player if you lynch me. You’ll just be missing a chance to possibly hang a wolf. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/420 "2015-11-04T23:47:39Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > You’ll just be missing a chance to possibly hang a wolf. What do you mean? We’ll still have the next Day phase and probably more. So we’ll still have chances. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585.md?page=22)