# Trouble in Paradise (Mafia Game Thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [October 23, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585 "2015-10-23T22:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/501 "2015-11-10T19:35:34Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > I’m pretty sure that he only posted the after post because he knew that others would jump on him for the “slip.” Me too. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/502 "2015-11-10T21:35:36Z")
Count me in the group of people wondering “Why **PCM**?” My head wasn’t exactly entirely in the game the first couple of Days, so I may have missed something along the way, but PCM had never even entered my radar. Which may very well be the reason the Scum targeted him. A player flying under often suggests ‘Town power’, so they may have struck for that reason alone. Or they may have simply taken a random shot at someone who hadn’t garnered much attention so far, hoping that we’d spend a good portion of time trying to figure out why he was the target, instead of actually hunting for the shooter…and they just ‘got lucky’ that they killed the Doc. There may still be something to draw from the Day 1 ‘switch’ from **Prof. P** to **Sario** ; unfortunately, I thought yesterDay that all signs pointed to **WF Tomba** …which was a mistake. At first glance, I’d say that the Day 2 votes won’t be very telling, because it was pretty much a runaway from the beginning…but there’s a good chance that there were Scum in there, not necessarily driving the train but at least making sure that it stayed on the tracks. I’ll be looking at folks like **snfaulkner** , **Dead Cat** , **HookerChemical** , and **Biotop** , who were the ‘middle-tier’ voters on Day 2, to see if there’s anything that merits closer scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/503 "2015-11-10T21:46:11Z")
I missed this post in my first read-through of the Day: > [@Octarine](#): > > Precambrianmollusc’s death/Town status certainly doesn’t make Dante look good. Why, exactly? > [@](#): > > Combine that with the fact that Dante voted for WF Tomba (so did I, and probably other townies, but overall it’s fair to assume a higher percentage of people voting for him are wolves than in the general population), and I’m having a hard time thinking of something he could say to convince me otherwise. Combine _what_ with the fact that…? > [@](#): > > To give Dante the benefit of the doubt, there are a myraid of different reasons Precambrian could’ve been targeted, and of course voting for a townie doesn’t mean you’re a wolf. So, Dante is suspicious because of some unnamed thing, combined with the fact that he did a thing that a number of Townies probably did…but there are a bunch of non-Scummy reasons that people could have done stuff, too > [@](#): > > Still, fairly suspicious. Maybe, but not for any of the non-reasons that you point out here. This post sounds to me like someone who’s _trying_ to sound like they’re suspicious of someone, but who’s hedging their bets…maybe because they aren’t really suspicious at all, because they know there’s actually nothing to the accusations that they almost, but not quite, made. **vote Octarine** ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/504 "2015-11-10T22:18:33Z")
In response to Biotops quote - > [@](#): > > Dante G: WFTomba took a chance and voted. And we lynched him for it. You didn’t make a choice, and here you still are today. I am sure it is nice to be alive, but had you maybe dared to voice suspicion of Prof. Pepperwinkle, or even Sario, it could possibly have influenced the outcome of both Days. I noticed you were not on the sidelines yesterday. You were there to join many of us in the WFTomba mislynch. Of course there was no runner-up really yesterDay to worry about how you might look in choosing a side. Taking a stand is always better for Town in the long run, it seems to me. Do the right thing in the future. If you are indeed Town as you claim, please make amends to WfTomba, Sario, and the rest of us. I did not voice any suspicion on **Pepperwinkle** and\*\* Sario\*\* because at the time I had no reason to suspect them. So why would I want to throw out a false suspicion just to fit in? I at the time did not see what all the hoopla was about in regards to either of them, so I’m not gonna join up in a bandwagon vote just because unless I see some merit behind it. As for **Octarine’s** posts regarding me, well, I don’t see what he/she is getting at. I went back and forth with **Precam** about something trivial and **Precam** turns up dead and Town, so that makes me look bad?? I did things in voting that others did and that makes me look bad?? I see no real evidence from **Octarine’s** points and I agree with\*\* Plankton\*\* that they seem like a desperate attempt to look Town. Vote Octarine ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/505 "2015-11-10T22:35:19Z")
Ocatarine’s post made sense to me, even if I don’t really agree with it. PcM voted Dante yesterday, he laid out his suspicions in a post which Hooker quoted in post 484, followed by a vote for Dante. I mentioned that I thought that might be the reason that PcM was killed in post 480. I think Octarine was just continuing on from those posts in 488. **Suburban and Dante** , what do you think of Hooker’s vote? ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/506 "2015-11-10T22:46:13Z")
Well personally, I can honestly say that if I was **Hooker** and I was looking for anything I could grab a hold of that I could use to point a finger at a potential Scum, then I would probably vote for **Dante** (me) as well, based on the evidence he used. However, being Town and knowing that I never meant to come off as Scummy, I still decree that the evidence is very flimsy. I mean really, the main points are revolving around a poor use of grammar. To me, that’s just not strong enough of evidence to put a vote on. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/507 "2015-11-10T23:25:45Z")
I stand by my vote, but am OK with an Octarine lynch. My back up suspect is becoming Texcat for his response to my vote, but also for his response to the Octarine situation. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/508 "2015-11-10T23:32:22Z")
Ok, finally caught up with the last few days. Sucks to lose the Doc, and certainly curious as to why only 1 night kill lastNight. I was sick and off work yesterday so I need catch up here at work before I can do a complete re-read with the new info. Expect an analysis from me later in the week, hopefully tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/509 "2015-11-11T01:18:20Z")
**Mahaloth** , Why are you OK with an Octa lynch? Is your OK based solely on post 488, like Dante’s and Suburban’s appears to be? ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/510 "2015-11-11T01:22:19Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > Well personally, I can honestly say that if I was **Hooker** and I was looking for anything I could grab a hold of that I could use to point a finger at a potential Scum, then I would probably vote for **Dante** (me) as well, based on the evidence he used. > > However, being Town and knowing that I never meant to come off as Scummy, I still decree that the evidence is very flimsy. I mean really, the main points are revolving around a poor use of grammar. To me, that’s just not strong enough of evidence to put a vote on. So you understand Hooker’s vote on you, but when Octarine doesn’t even vote, but expresses suspicion of you, you think it’s enough to vote Octarine on? I’m not getting it. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/511 "2015-11-11T03:22:56Z")
I am not going to do a super long wall-of-text posting this evening because when I stay up after midnight rambling on, I end up putting out something that looks like PIS to **Mahaloth** , or maybe lashing out unfairly at someone undeserving of it like **Suburban Plankton**. I’ll try and keep it shorter and hopefully not tick anyone off too much. And maybe get some sleep. I also hope we can still take some more time to examine what happened with the **PP** to **Sario** mislynch. Questions there are still very much unanswered, IMHO. So this is my current thinking: \*I think **TexCat** is Town, though it somewhat bewilders me that she is alive and not **Precam**. \*I lean Town on **DeadCat** because of his several thoughtful postings. Yes, the **Precam** “wary” suspicion is in the back of my mind…but it is not in the forefront. \*\*DeadCat’\*\*s **P.P** to **Sario** vote switch is bothersome, but I still can’t understand a wolf making such a strong case for another wolf so early on Day 1. I certainly don’t see a wolf risking the "die on a hill” post on Day 1. Why would a wolf do that… and to another wolf? I do not think they would. - I think **Octarine** is probably Town, but I do wish he would post more. I don’t really see the case made toDay against\*\* Octarine\*\*.\*\* Octarine\*\*’s suspicions of **Dante G** are not entirely unjustified, and the **PCM** night kill is murky at best. My impression of **Octarine** is of a new player who is somewhat shy but trying to contribute. Scum **Prof P.** gave **Octarine** and \*\*IRConfused \*\*a pass for being new in post #147, when he was going on again about lurkers. I suppose it is possible there is something there. - I have no real read still on\*\* Suburban Plankton\*\* and wish he would post more. Most of **SP** ’s postings do I suppose, seem Townish to me, though I think today’s case against **Octarine** is too much of a stretch considering **Octarine** is new. - I have a neutral read on **HookerChemica** l. His posts seem detailed and very well thought out. But something bothers me. On one hand he was too easily dismissive of the case against **Prof. P**. On the other hand he jumps in mighty fast with a vote on **Dante** \*\*G \*\*today. **Hooker** does not seem shy about voting. - I have a neutral to slightly scummy read on **Mahaloth**. I don’t want to let his suspicions of me cloud my judgement, but I don’t understand **Mahaloth** ’s not seeing any (“zippo”) case against\*\* PP\*\* and none against **Tomba**. Sure we now know the case against **Tomba** was wrong. But there _was_ a fair case and it was based on both \*\*WFTomba’\*\*s voting and his commentary. I wish when **Mahaloth** doesn’t see a case others are pointing out, he would give some details as to where we are wrong. Maybe we would have “seen the light” with commentary less terse than that which was given on **WFTomba**. - I have a somewhat scummy read towards **IRConfused** for reasons mentioned earlier. Nothing has much has changed. I hope he posts more to help clarify my opinion. Here’s one thing I would like to see: In Post #242 **IRConfused** tells us he is “trying to chart who seems to be protecting who.” Can you show us what you have so far on this,\*\* IRConfused\*\*? - I have a scummy read on **Dante** for the reasons already posted. However, he doesn’t get my vote right now because part of me _can_ imagine him playing as he has while still being Town. I don’t like the play, but I can sort of see it. And would the wolves really telegraph a fellow wolf by killing **PCM**? They have to know we’d go back and look at **PCM** ’s posting and votes looking for clues to a surprising night kill. Many of us were already suspicious of **Dante G** before. I guess I still am. - I was certain yesterDay that at least one of two Sario voters ( **snfaulkner** or **WfTomba** ) was Scum based on the first Day mislynch. **snfaulkner** voted for **PP** first, and then changed his mind, thus turning a tide that eventually swept away **Sario**. I think Scum had a hand in the that turn. We know it wasn’t **WFTomba**. We know it wasn’t **Astra** l. Who’s left? For a process of elimination and a general scummy vibe I have been getting all game: Vote snfaulkner ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/512 "2015-11-11T03:38:51Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > **Mahaloth** , Why are you OK with an Octa lynch? Is your OK based solely on post 488, like Dante’s and Suburban’s appears to be? I guess I’m OK with it because Octarine falls in the middle for me. I have no strong read as Town or Scum. I’d rather you or Biotop die, but I can not argue much either way for Octarine. I guess I didn’t say that clear enough initially. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/513 "2015-11-11T04:20:59Z")
Thanks. Do you have any town leans? Biotop certainly seems to be trying. He did vote for Prof P. He’s probably my strongest town lean. Do you think he’s pulled the wool over my eyes? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/514 "2015-11-11T12:56:46Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > 1. Do you have any town leans? > > Biotop certainly seems to be trying. He did vote for Prof P. He’s probably my strongest town lean. 2. Do you think he’s pulled the wool over my eyes? 1. Me. Ha ha. I only seem to have people I suspect as scum and people I don’t have much thoughts on either way. I guess everyone I don’t have strong thoughts on constitute my town leans. 2. Yes, unless you are both scum. Or if you are and he isn’t. However, if you are town and he is scum, then yeah, he’s fooling you. Duh. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/515 "2015-11-11T15:28:42Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Ocatarine’s post made sense to me, even if I don’t really agree with it. PcM voted Dante yesterday, he laid out his suspicions in a post which Hooker quoted in post 484, followed by a vote for Dante. I mentioned that I thought that might be the reason that PcM was killed in post 480. I think Octarine was just continuing on from those posts in 488. > > **Suburban and Dante** , what do you think of Hooker’s vote? I don’t have a problem with **Hooker’s** vote; it seems like the reasoning is sound (which doesn’t necessarily make it correct…just sound). Hooker doesn’t really add anything to the discussion in his post, which is not ideal, but since he’s quoting someone who is no longer able to speak for himself. Looking back, it does appear that **Octarine** might be referring to Hooker’s post. Or maybe he’s not. And if he is, then he’s referring to a post that refers back to a different post, so he’s basically just agreeing with a third-hand assessmemt, and then waffling about it. So my vote stands. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/516 "2015-11-11T23:09:34Z")
**A brief review of Mahaloth** **Day One** Mahaloth tells us that Day One is mostly luck. ([155](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18805929&postcount=155)) And because of that he doesn’t mind LtLurker votes ([106](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18804168&postcount=106)) or voting on vibe or feel ([106](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18804168&postcount=106), [192](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18807614&postcount=192)) He votes Biotop for his cranky post ([124](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18805128&postcount=124)), and defends himself against Dante’s vote by saying ([142](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18805546&postcount=142)) “It’s just my top suspicion on Day 1. Still, your vote on me makes just about as much sense and it is not a particularly bad Day 1 vote. If you feel it, vote it. Until actual evidence starts to mount later in the Days.” After the Prof gets up to 4 votes, Mahaloth tells us ([206](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18809487&postcount=206)), “I’m hardly Prof. P’s advocate, but I don’t get the scummy vibes at all.” Later when Astral suggests that that anyone with a preference between Sario and the Prof should vote it, Mahaloth does([303](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18817157&postcount=303)). > [@](#): > > I still think it is Biotop, but I see zippo case on Pepper. So I guess I’d prefer Sario. I don’t think we are going to tie, but I will vote to help make sure. > > Sorry, Sario. Scum or not, it always sucks to die on Day 1. Believe me, I know. I’ve died tons on Day 1 both as scum and as town. We really have no clue and are just crossing our fingers. **Day Two** Mahaloth starts the day with a mea culpa of sorts([358](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18825497&postcount=358),[381](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18826417&postcount=381)). wonders why Astral was killed ([387](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18826882&postcount=387), [389](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18827097&postcount=389)). In response to Biotop’s comment, “I think we have a lot of good and suggestive information for so early in the game.”, Mahaloth says, “We do? Now, I can’t wait to see what you think we have.” ([402](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18830756&postcount=402)) Eight votes accumulate on Tomba. Then Hooker defends his position on Prof P in [435](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18834697&postcount=435) and Mahaloth votes him for it. ([436](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18835051&postcount=436)). > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I don’t believe you, even though I kind of felt some of that as well. > > I think Tomba is no better than chance, either. > > **Vote HookerChemical** **Day Three** Mahaloth votes Biotop for PIS, knowing that we started with 4 scum. ([495](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18847094&postcount=495)) **Some thoughts on Mahaloth** Rereading, I was struck by how many times Mahaloth mentioned that we don’t have anything to go on, it’s all luck. He even questions Biotop on Day Two when he says that we now have something to go on, a dead scum. This was exactly what made me think that Prof P was scum, his insistence that there was nothing to go on and that we should just vote a lurker. I was also struck by the two times that Mahaloth exclaimed on Day One that he didn’t see any case on the Professor. Why did he bother telling us that? He’d already said that everything on Day One was luck. He’d already said he was OK voting lurkers, he was OK voting cranky, he was OK with voting a gut feeling. Why did he think there needed to be an actual case on the Professor? I found his vote for Hooker very odd. There was not much of an explanation or a case made, just that Mahaloth didn’t believe him. We don’t know exactly what he didn’t believe or why. Maybe Hooker sounded cranky? Today he voted on the PIS. Hooker speculated there were 4 scum as early as [post 30](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18800761&postcount=30). Biotop speculated the same thing to get to his starting 71%. ([211](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18810541&postcount=211)). So I hardly consider it PIS, but I do consider Mahaloth’s pointing it out and voting for it a scum tell. (I just wish I remembered who to credit.) **vote: Mahaloth** ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/517 "2015-11-11T23:10:38Z")
Biotop didn’t do the analysis I wanted him to, so I’ll do it myself and not piggyback again. Sorry this is coming later than I’d hoped, but it’s been a weird week for me. Here’s the final list of those voting for Sario: [ul][li]IRConfused[/li][li]Prof P[/li][li]snfaulkner[/li][li]Astral[/li][li]Dead Cat[/li][li]WF Tomba[/li][li]HookerChemical[/li][li]Mahaloth[/li][/ul] And here’s the list for WF Tomba: [ul][li]Suburban[/li][li]octarine[/li][li]Dante G[/li][li]snfaulkner[/li][li]Dead Cat[/li][li]HookerChemical[/li][li]Biotop[/li][li]TexCat[/li][/ul] I think I got the order correct, and corrections are welcome. As I’ve said before, I think the suspicion profile more or less peaks in the middle. There are three people who show up on both lists: snfaulkner, Dead Cat, and me (HookerChemical). There was obviously enough suspicion on WFT and Sario to get townie buy-in for the lynch, but the three people voting for the mis-lynch both times have to be viewed with suspicion. (Yes, that means me.) I’m not saying they’re scum (I’m not) but you have to be raising an eyebrow at them. I still have a townie read on Dead Cat, but snfaulkner is suspect. Snfaulkner is pretty casual in his dsmissal of Prof P’s ability to manipulate him in Post 380 (“The Prof certainly hornswaggled me!”) and Post 425 (“I fell for the Bamboozel”). There’s nothing outright scummy about those, but they ring insincere and too quickly dismiss the issue. On the other hand, some of his clearly innocuous posts are a bit whimsical as well (Post 445 “Thanks for the count, good sir!). I’m leaning more scum on snfaulkner than I was, but I have better candidates for now. We’re also pretty in mid-game. The PCM night kill doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. It could have been the result of a Night One scum watcher who saw he was a power role, but that’s unsupported speculation. Maybe PCM was riding the right level of staying off the radar to get on the scum radar (i.e. “He’s doing well at not attracting attention. He might be a power role, so let’s kill him.”). He also has a good voting record. PCM wasn’t part of either mis-lynch. We’re now at the point where WFT’s premature suggestion of asking why experienced players are still around is a good idea rather than a likely self-inflicted wound. I know Mahaloth, Suburban Plankton, and TexCat are pretty experienced on SDMB. I think Dante G is experienced, but on other boards. Dante G is getting plenty of suspicion, so if he’s not scum it’s clear why he wasn’t night killed. Rereading PCM yesterday and the posts today, I’m sticking with my Dante G vote on the basis that PCM was killed for charging so hard for Dante G. I reiterate that I cannot reconcile the multiple gaffes with his posts from other games, where his posts were much clearer and didn’t appear to have such massive slips. I’ve said before that I don’t think a slip is a good basis for suspicion, but we have a pattern of sloppy wording from Dante that I’m more comfortable voting. As I said in Post 379, I thought there was a scum between WFT and Dante G. I backed the wrong lynch Day Two, but I still feel that I was right about one of the two being scum. As I’ve said previously, I think Mahaloth’s a hard read, and as time has moved on, I’ve moved to a scummier read on him. Initially, I thought his posts were mostly targeted at getting more information out of other players without having to develop much himself, but I’m growing more and more wary of him. Rather than trying to generate information/analysis, his posts are destroying information and muddying the waters. Post 402 is almost entirely dedicated to discrediting others’ information/suspicions. Post 459 sees no reason for it to be unfortunate and asks why IRConfused feels that it’s unfortunate that WF Tomba (who IRC believes to be town) is about to be lynched, when it’s obvious why that would be (somebody believed to be a townie about to be lynched). Post 437 is a nonsensical vote against me for explaining why I didn’t buy the case against Prof P, _when Mahaloth was being asked the very same question and still hasn’t offered much explanation_. Post 459 does nothing to contribute to the discussion but rather dismisses a reasonable concern. Post 495 accuses Biotop of perfect knowledge when discussing the number of scum, but it was established very early that four was the most likely number of scum and several previous posts has used that as a basis for discussion. As Biotop puts it well in Post 511 “I wish when Mahaloth doesn’t see a case others are pointing out, he would give some details as to where we are wrong.” As it is, I feel his posts have muddied things rather than adding to the discussion. Right now, he’s sitting with a vote on Biotop, after he felt strongly enough in Post 437 to throw away a vote on me (meaning that there was no chance of a consensus being built to lynch me at that point). Mahaloth is rising quickly up my list of scum candidates. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/518 "2015-11-11T23:19:05Z")
TexCat, reading your post it’s clear that I’m not reading too much into Mahaloth’s posts. We’re looking at the same posts and getting similar things out (but your formatting is far better). I was afraid I was seeing the worse in a person who voted for me, but I don’t think that’s the case. **UNVOTE DANTE G VOTE MAHALOTH** ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/519 "2015-11-11T23:30:24Z")
Ok, I’ve started a complete re-read…however I’m getting pulled away by life soon. So right now, here’s what I’ve got. Hopefully more later today/night… So Day 1, I did NOT trust my gut when I smelled wolf’s breath on **Prof P** , and switched my vote with horrendous results (might even cause ME to get lynched)… So Day 2, I decided TO trust my gut and voted for **WF Tomba** , with horrendous results… So here we are on Day 3 and we have only one wolf carcass to claim, but only thanks to some unknown benevolent force. And we are town 4 townies, including our doctor. So I think instead of going WITH or AGAINST my gut, I’m going to follow what seemed/s to be great advice we got from the beginning… > [@Biotop](#): > > … > > 1. Experienced players deserve our attention, but not our immediate votes. Experienced players on our side are critical in guiding us newbies in the right direction. Thing is, the Scum know this and therefore will try to kill them off as swiftly as possible. Whose side is an experienced player on? Most likely an experienced player is on our side because there are only a few Scum. Therefore, unless they make a slip (unlikely with the experienced) we are more likely to kill one of our own going after an experienced player early. However, if an experienced player is NOT night killed in the first few rounds, we then can reasonably start wondering “why not?”… …and so I must **VOTE MAHALOTH** for he seems to be the most experienced, what with the “let’s improve how we play mafia” writings…And also, he seems to be a bit lurkery, or was in early Days of our island internment. Again, I still need to completely re-read everything. And once I finally do, I may have better reasoning and/or a different vote. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/520 "2015-11-11T23:35:59Z")
Ah jeeez, in the space of 20 minutes, There seems to have been a **MAHALOTH** wagon train leaving the station just as I was trying to do the reread and my above post…now i look totally bandwagony… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585.md?page=27)