# Trouble in Paradise (Mafia Game Thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [October 23, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585 "2015-10-23T22:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/541 "2015-11-12T17:34:46Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I am not apathetic and haven’t been in other games. > > However, I am scum in this game, so good work, folks! Thanks! And I would never say that you were apathetic. Trying to hide in the background perhaps? Continuing the search for the remaining wolves, **Octarine,** Could you respond to Suburban and Dante’s votes for you? Do you think that Dante still looks suspicious? And can you explain why? **Hooker** , What about you? Is Dante still on your list for scum? **SNF** , You’ll note that Suburban is struggling with a read on you. Can you help us out? Who are your scum leans? **Biotop** , I’m assuming you’ll put your thoughts on record before EOD? **Dead Cat** , You’ve been pretty on point with your votes. Any thoughts before nightfall? I will certainly post mine before EOD, but it may take a while for me to collect them. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/542 "2015-11-12T17:40:02Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Yes, as the game progresses, it becomes a more viable basis for a vote. I just think you’re a Day or two early in this case. I think we have a pretty good basis for a vote today. No need for a tiebreaker now. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/543 "2015-11-12T17:45:23Z")
Did Mahaloth just out himself as Scum? Don’t often see that in mafia, but then again, I guess we are close to end of Day, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/544 "2015-11-12T17:48:44Z")
Just reread the beginning of Day phase post by Johnny B … the end of Day is Tomorrow at Noon. Why is Mahaloth caving in so early?? Strange days indeed! ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/545 "2015-11-12T17:58:51Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’ll be looking at folks like **snfaulkner** , **Dead Cat** , **HookerChemical** , and **Biotop** , who were the ‘middle-tier’ voters on Day 2, to see if there’s anything that merits closer scrutiny. This is more or less what I was alluding to with my “suspicion peaks in the middle.” I think I have the peak a vote earlier in the pattern than you, Suburban, but it’s the same idea. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m not happy with **HookerChemical’s** voting history. Me either, and I realize it’s suspect, which is why I’m glad to be on the Mahaloth train. I’d be more happy there with everybody on it. > [@TexCat](#): > > **Hooker** , What about you? Is Dante still on your list for scum? I still have Dante near the top with IRConfused. I don’t know which I’d vote for since Dante was assuring snfaulkner that the vote against Mahaloth was a good one, which is townie (and possibly a little self serving, but that’s reasonable). Assuming Mahaloth flips scum (which seems a done deal), snfaulkner will fall further behind those two. I don’t know who my #3 candidate is, but my deduction has been off all game. My gut has been far more reliable than my brain. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/546 "2015-11-12T18:00:36Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > Did Mahaloth just out himself as Scum? That’s how I read it. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/547 "2015-11-12T18:02:29Z")
Here I go again with another long post, and I hope it won’t be my only one before end of Day, but I’ve run out of time today. It’s a selection of quotes from Day One onwards that I am analysing (and in many cases re-analysing). If any of the below contradicts what I have said before, it’s because I’ve changed my mind - the below represents my current views. It only goes up to end of Day One (roughly) so far. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > I’m perfectly ok with a mis-lynch on Day1 with for horrible cheese puns, with no other real information yet. > > So… > > **VOTE PRECAMBRIANMOLLUSC** for this atrocity… We now know that PCM was Town. This vote is not suspicious in itself, though it is for a weak reason, as it was very early in the game. However, see further comments later. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Here is a thread some folks might like to read, now or during the Night when strategy is not allowed. > > [“Let’s improve how we play ‘Mafia’”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=654556) > > It goes over many of our theories of the game. It’s from 3 years ago. I did read this thread, albeit a few days ago, and to be perfectly honest I don’t think I got a great deal out of it. Now, I am aware this is a prime example of assuming guilt and then interpreting evidence in a certain way to support it, but could Mahaloth have posted this in order to seem all helpful and townie, while knowing it likely wouldn’t lead anyone to suspect him of being a wolf? > [@snfaulkner](#): > > I’m still outraged by the cheese travesties from earlier, so I’m not yet going to change my vote. This is weak. At the time there were a few reasons to change. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > There is something off-putting about this post from Biotop. I dunno, it just rubs me the wrong way, I guess. I don’t think it’s a bad idea to look at people’s playstyles from recent games at all and what happened in previous games is not always story-related. It’s game-related. > > The cranky thing at the end bothers me even more. It sounds like an attempt to justify the post. I don’t think it is OOG at all. > > Bah, I’m voting. > > **Vote Biotop** This looks like weak reasoning to me as well. > [@Dante\_G](#): > > To Sub. Plankton - You are right I did not post a vote. I had cast suspicion on Tomba back on post #52, but I neglected to actually vote. That was my mistake. > > As more posts have come along, however, I have a few other ideas to toss out there. Biotops post rant about voting based off of past play styles does not read as Scummy to me. The fact that Mahaloth has all sorts of suspicions regarding it and is in turn voting for Biotop, leads me to see Mahaloth as Scum pretending to jump at a player whoM he “believes” to have Scum’s best interest. > > **VOTE MAHALOTH** Because I have a town read on Biotop and a scum read on Mahaloth, I tend to read this post as townie. That could be a mistake but Dante’s reasoning here is rather similar to my own. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Nope. It’s just my top suspicion on Day 1. Still, your vote on me makes just about as much sense and it is not a particularly bad Day 1 vote. If you feel it, vote it. Until actual evidence starts to mount later in the Days. Well, we now have plenty of evidence but I’m yet to see Mahaloth even attempt to make use of it. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Whew. Okay, at the moment the bottom of the post count is: > > WF Tomba 5 > Octarine 5 > Sario 5 > IRConfused 5 > > **If** I was voting now, I would skip over Octarine and IRConfused, since they are new, and new players lurk instinctively, or at least did in the last two games. Both of the others should know not to lurk by now, so I’d probably vote for Tomba, since voting for Sario might look like a retaliation vote. I think this post is worth highlighting again. Of this list, we now know WFTomba and Sario were Town. It is clearly therefore in the Prof’s interest to highlight them as lynching candidates. Interestingly, he does give an “out” to the other two, so they could still be wolves that the Prof included them for future strategic reasons, or perhaps they are town if the Prof was playing a rather ‘vanilla’ wolf game. We shall see I suppose. > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > I’m torn about Lynch the Lurker. In the last game, I pursued that strategy forthrightly, and it turned out in hindsight to be a decent strategy … yet the lurker I focused on the most was **Mahaloth** , who turned out to be Town. > > But what’s even worse is that I am myself a bit of a lurker, if you go by post counts. I just tend to be succinct, and I can’t generate the extensive verbiage that some players do. I think if you all review my posts in this game, though, you will find that I am doing my best not to hide. > > I still stand behind everything I have said or suggested in this thread: **Astral** and **Mahaloth** are dangerous players, **Astral** appears to be laying the groundwork for a Scum push against me, and **Dante G** ’s confusion over whether he had voted (for me!) might be scummy. > > I am also starting to be suspicious of **Prof. Pepperwinkle**. So, correct to suspect the Prof, incorrect to suspect Astral (Town on Town misunderstanding, we now know). > [@snfaulkner](#): > > **Prof P.** This seems to rub me, and a few others a bit…wrong. Can you explain what you mean by casting a “cover-my-ass vote”? I think I may have said this before (no time to check now), but I get a bit of a ‘wolf on wolf’ read with this post. Not necessarily, of course, but it’s certainly a possibility. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > But NOW I’m thinking, this means you’d hop on a bandwagon and lynch anyone for no good reason other than to save your own skin…Now THAT smells VERY wolfie! > > **UNVOTE PRECAMBRIAN** > > **VOTE PROF PEPPERWINKLE!** > > Please feel free to dissuade me. I thought I smelt a whiff of wolf and this may be a panic vote. This would be an interesting post for a wolf to make. I think I have already said that I believe it could still be wolf on wolf. And then, as if by magic, we have this: > [@snfaulkner](#): > > **Prof. Pep** , you’ve convinced me enough that my vote for you may be better spent somewhere else. > > **UNVOTE PROF PEPPERWINKLE** > > I’ve noticed this too. It seems like the perfect way to attempt to not lurk while lurking. > > **VOTE SARIO** > > Mind you this is only a very slight feeling that could easily be over-ridden. Also note, this has NOTHING to do with his past game wolfscumsihnesseseses. How convenient! Changing vote from a wolf to a townie. Now, could be an honest townie mistake, but this is one of the crucial votes in Day One’s mislynch (yes, I know I was highly instrumental in that - see below). > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > Seems to be a bit of a bandwagon building on **Sario**. I’m torn: on the one hand, I think getting rid of a lurky player would be good. On the other hand, players I’m already suspicious of are joining this bandwagon. Maybe **Astral** and **Prof. Pepperwinkle** are both wolves. Misplaced suspicion on Astral again, correct suspicion on the Prof, reasonable (but incorrect) thoughts about Sario. > [@IRConfused](#): > > OK, here is my leanings at this point and my reasons: > > **Suburban Plankton** > Seems to be a fan of random voting on 1st day. Voted for **Dante G** then switched to **snfaulkner**. Not much substance to posts and was suspicious of **WF Tomba**. No Read > > **Sario** > First voter. Voted for\*\* Prof Pepperwinkle\*\*. Admits that lurkers are very often Scum and then lurks. Does not defend himself even though he has enough votes against him that he could get lynched. I get a Scum Read from **Sario**. > > **Octarine** > Votes IRConfused due to gut feel and low post count (and admits that he also has low post count). Suspicious of Prof and Dead Cat. No Read > > \*\*Precambrianmollusc \*\* > Mentions that the \*\*Prof \*\*may somehow know that \*\*Tomba \*\*and \*\*Biotop \*\*are Town, then goes ahead and votes **Prof Pepperwinkle**. Brings up the possibility that **Prof** , **Tomba** and \*\*Biotop \*\*are masons, then discards the idea as farfetched. When later asked why he voted for Prof, he basically says it is due to the \*\*Prof \*\*snuggling. This just looks to me like an attempt to get rid of an experienced player (and it might work) I get a Scum read from **Precambrianmollusc**. > > **TexCat** > Supports \*\*Astral \*\*and \*\*Mahaloth \*\*early (but just justifies it with a questionable statistical proof.) Votes \*\*Biotop \*\*for a random reason. Shows suspicion of **Biotop** , \*\*Prof \*\*and **IRConfused**. Agrees that \*\*Biotop \*\*is giving good town advice and changes his vote from \*\*Biotop \*\*to **Prof P**. I can see two different reasons for this switch. He is town and is now convinced that \*\*Biotop \*\*is also town and **Prof P** is scum, or he is scum and realizes that \*\*Biotop \*\*won’t get enough votes and piles onto the **Prof P** bandwagon to try to get rid of him. I get a pro town read from **TexCat**. > > **Mahaloth** > Votes \*\*Biotop \*\*due to not liking a summary post (I admit, that I was’t very fond of the post either since it attacked me :smack:) Posts some information regarding improving play. Does a soft support of **Prof P**. No Read > > **WF Tomba** > Supports getting rid of “dangerous players” (specifically \*\*Astral \*\*and **Mahaloth** ). He backs it up with a vote for **Astral Rejection** after he is called out for the post. I really think that this is more advantages to scum than town. He continues to get into it with \*\*Astral \*\*and by association seems to infer that \*\*Prof \*\*and \*\*Biotop \*\*may also be town though he doesn’t come right out and defend them. He then casts suspicion on **Prof P** and **Dante G**. No Read. > > **BioTop** > Posts a bunch of filler then calls out\*\* Prof P\*\* for being too chummy with him and \*\*IRConfused \*\*for placing a vote for a stupid reason. Posts a well written rundown of his current thoughts, supports **Astral** , **Hooker** , \*\*DeadCat \*\*and **Octarine**. Does not like **snfaulkner** , **WF Tomba** , \*\*IRConfused \*\*and **Prof Pepperwinkle.** Votes for **Prof Pepperwinkle**. Comes back after my post and pleads with me to post my thoughts. I get a pro town read on **Biotop** > > **Dead Cat** > First casts suspicion on **Prof P** , **IRConfused** and **TextCat** Votes for **Prof P** and soft supports **Biotop**. Continues to raise suspicion of **Prof P**. Posts a Last will and testament supporting\*\* Dante G\*\*, \*\*Octarine \*\*and **WF Tomba** then cast suspicion on **WF Tomba** (which way is he going here?), **IRConfused** , **Mahaloth** , \*\*Sario \*\*and **Prof P**. I get a pro town read on **Dead Cat** > > **Dante G** > First casts suspicion on **WF Tomba.** Votes for \*\*Mahaloth \*\*and supports **Biotop**. Starts the discussion to end the day early. Comments that **Prof P** , **Hooker** , **Astral** , **Dead Cat** , \*\*Biotop \*\*and \*\*TexCat \*\*have all posted substantial info that leans town but does not actually seem to support anyone. No Read > > **HookerChemical** > Starts with a Vote for \*\*Sario \*\*just due to not wanting a no-lynch. Switches vote to **WF Tomba** due to the “Dangerous Player” post. Switches again to \*\*Dead Cat \*\*for being combative and soft supports **Prof P**. Builds on his case for the **Dead Cat** Vote. Breaks down \*\*Biotop’s \*\*analysis and unvotes **Dead Cat based on that post. He believes that Dead Cat** and **Prof P** are town. After he analyses \*\*Biotop’s \*\*potential Scum list he ends up does not like **Sario** , \*\*Precambrinmollusc \*\*and **IRConfused**. Votes \*\*IRConfused \*\*for lurking and bad \*\*Sario \*\*vote. Defends Prof P. I get a pro town read on **HookerChemical**. > > **snfaulkner** > Posts random vote for **Astral Rejection** switches to \*\*Precambrianmollusc \*\*for bad cheese puns. Brings up the possibility that **Dead Cat** bread crumbed that he was the Guardian. Switches to **Prof Pepperwinkle** after he says he smelled wolf. Switches to \*\*Sario \*\*after being convinced by **Prof P** that he is ok. (but still is a bit suspicious) I get a pro town read from **snfaulkner** > > **Astral Rejection** > Votes **Dead Cat** and also cast suspicion on **IRConfused**. Switches his vote to \*\*snfaulkner \*\*because he did not like his vote. Apologizes and then unvotes. Later supports \*\*HookerChemical \*\*as probably Town and brings up still not liking **Dead Cat**. Votes \*\*Sario \*\*for lurking. I get a pro town read from **Astral Rejection** (lots of posts, but not a lot of substance) > > **Prof Pepperwinkle** > Biggest poster, least amount of substance. Talks a lot but basically says 1st day is a crap shoot and he won’t really analysis until later. Votes \*\*Sario \*\*due to lurking. Only substantial posts are in defense of himself. Leaves a last will and testament accusing **Sario**. I get a Scum read from **Prof Pepperwinkle**. This post goes a long way towards giving me more of a townie feeling towards IRConfused. OK, wrong reads on Sario (like a lot of others) and PCM, but correct on Astral and the Prof, and a lot of the above tallies with my own thoughts. > [@Octarine](#): > > Just out of curiosity, why do you think Astral’s scum? He’s one of the most Town-y posters to my eyes, which in turn makes me a little suspicious of you. Agreed, and later proved correct, so a town lean for this post. > [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > I am seriously considering changing my vote to Sario, because as I have already acknowledged, although I still stand by what I said re. Prof P, I could be wrong, and if so that is bad for town. Whereas if we are wrong about our scum read on Sario, he’s not helping town much anyway, so no great loss if we mislynch him (i.e. I’m leaning back towards lunch the lurker). > > Could Sario and the Prof. both be scum? I agree it seems unlikely given they voted for each other fairly early and without a great deal of evidence, which would be odd. So I’m starting to think it’s better for the game maybe if we lynch Sario. If he is revealed as scum, we can probably completely reassess Prof P. If he reveals as town, Prof P remains under serious suspicion. Whereas if we lynch Prof P and are wrong, we haven’t got much useful information and probably still want to lynch Sario next day anyway. > > Absolutely. I don’t like the fact the voting is so close - it makes it too easy for a wolf to jump in just before end of day and create a tie, and if none of us townies is watching (I’ll be working at end of day so won’t be able to keep an eye on things down to the wire) this could result in no lynch when we have a couple of solid suspicions to go on. > > I’m getting more townie towards you now you’ve started posting a bit more. If it was between you and Sario and I had voted for you, I’d change to him, no question. But I don’t know why you’re so confident he won’t get lynched? Lots of time yet for people to change votes. > > Guys, based on the above we need to decide pretty much now which way we’re going to go. Despite the fact it may cast suspicion on me, based on recent posts including this one I’m going to switch, at least for now. “When the facts change, I change my mind.” > > **UNVOTE Prof. Pepperwinkle** > **[COLOR=“Navy”][COLOR=“Blue”]VOTE Sario[/COLOR][/COLOR]** > > If you agree, please consider changing your vote (especially if it’s currently for neither of the above) to create a solid majority one way or the other. I’m quoting myself because this was a key moment in the switch from Prof P to Sario, and I believe I made it for the right reasons, as stated. Multiple players, including me, had asked Sario by name to come and explain himself, and unfortunately for him (and us), real life prevented him from doing so until it was too late. We then got lucky with Prof P’s death that night, so as I’ve said before I’m not too unhappy with how it turned out. > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > **Dead Cat** convinced me. > > **Unvote Astral Rejection** > **Vote Sario** > > I was already thinking of moving my vote to the leading candidate (which at the time was **Prof. P** ) just to make a tie less likely. But you also convinced me that **Sario** is a better choice, my feelings about **Astral** and the **Prof.** notwithstanding. Regardless of whether you believe me, we now know this post was genuine, not a wolf jumping on a bandwagon. > [@HookerChemical](#): > > **Unvote IRConfused > Vote Sario** > > Let’s widen that gap a bit. I’ve stated the evidence. IRConfused has responded, Sario hasn’t. That’s not proof, but it certainly moves the needle enough to move my vote. This sounds genuine to me as well, but it’s hard to tell. I do have a solid town read on HookerChemical though for his well thought out posts. If he is a wolf, he is playing it very well at the moment. > [@HookerChemical](#): > > I tried for IRConfused, but the consensus didn’t form and I’m now very slightly leaning Sario. If it’s a mis-lynch, I’m probably on the IRConfused train again. > > Though Mahaloth’s silence is worrying as well. I agree that it needs a :dubious:. Indeed. To summarise the above, I currently believe the remaining wolves are Mahaloth, snfaulkner, and A. N. Other - but that’s just based on the first half of the thread, I now need to re-read the second half to gather further thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/548 "2015-11-12T19:00:31Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > Did Mahaloth just out himself as Scum? Don’t often see that in mafia, but then again, I guess we are close to end of Day, correct? I don’t know if he did, or not…but I hate it when people post something like that. Either he’s Scum and is therefore telling the truth, in which case he should be lynched…or else he’s Town and is just ‘giving up’. In the latter case, I think there are arguments for just lynching him now to get him out of the way, and for leaving him alone and making the Scum deal with him. But either way, it puts Town in a bad position, because they have to spend time deciding what to do with a Townie, instead of looking for Scum. If he’s Scum, then the only reason I can come up with to give himself up at this point in the Day would be to stymie further conversation; once the Town has a ‘slam dunk’, discussion tends to stop. So where would toDay’s discussion be going if we weren’t all talking about \*\*Mahaloth \*\*right now? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/549 "2015-11-12T19:17:46Z")
Sitting down for lunch and… \*that \* was unexpected. unvote snfaulkner Vote Mahaloth I will post more thoughts tonight as I try to wrap my mind around this. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/550 "2015-11-12T20:57:38Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I missed this post in my first read-through of the Day: > Why, exactly? > > Combine _what_ with the fact that…? > > So, Dante is suspicious because of some unnamed thing, combined with the fact that he did a thing that a number of Townies probably did…but there are a bunch of non-Scummy reasons that people could have done stuff, too > > Maybe, but not for any of the non-reasons that you point out here. > > This post sounds to me like someone who’s _trying_ to sound like they’re suspicious of someone, but who’s hedging their bets…maybe because they aren’t really suspicious at all, because they know there’s actually nothing to the accusations that they almost, but not quite, made. > > **vote Octarine** Sorry, it seems my original post wasn’t clear enough. Precamb’s death was a bad thing for Dante because Precamb was one of the handful of posters who repeatedly attacked Dante and, per Johnny’s 442 vote count, the only one who voted for him. A few examples: > [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > Still here , still think DanteG is our best bet , more substantive stuff this evening > [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > Sweet I get two votes ! > JB you have 2 votes on DanteG ( which he deserves) but only me listed . > [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > Why I think Dante G is scum > > Day one we have Dante G forgetting he had not voted. > He votes for Mahaloth, staying out of the Prof vs Sario debate > > Day two > Post 360 > Well, at the expense of a Townie, we at least know that we also have either a Vigilante or an SK. Hopefully this will work out in Towns favor. > > Why ‘towns” favor and not “our” favor. > > Post 362 > We did however, lose a Scum player in Pepperwinkle > > Again WE DID LOSE > I just don’t see a town person phrasing it that way, Both of those sentences indicate he lost something and town is another group of people. > Sure I could be reading too much into things, but it keeps happening. > > After some back and forth ( poor choice of word excuse given ), he jumps on SNFFaulkner, but no mention of Deadcat who was in a similar position. > Strikes me as an opportunistic poke as SNF and an attempt to get some votes building anywhere else but on him. Also IF DanteG turns out scum, it is interesting that the line of attack is to look at who switched votes. Maybe no scum were involved in vote switching, or even voting for the Prof or Sario. > > Then in post 378, once he was called out by Suburban Plankton for the SNFaulkner vs Deadcat choice , he jumps on the bandwagon building against WFT and skates out of the limelight. > To me this is just trying to deflect the attention any where else but on him. Sure, it’s not enough to base a vote on - but, combined with Dante’s vote for WF Tomba, it stuck out to me. When Precamb died, I went through the last few pages and tried to asses his relationships with various posters; Dante’s seemed noteworthy enough to make a passing comment about. While I understand the confusion, voting for me solely off that post seems strange. I’m uncomfortable that I’ve spent all this time talking about Dante because I _don’t_ actually think he’s scum - all of the above puts him farther “wolf” on the spectrum, but not enough for me to vote for him. My post may have sounded more accusatory than intended. With all that said, it’s pretty hard to argue with this: > [@Mahaloth](#): > > However, I am scum in this game, so good work, folks! Vote Mahaloth. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/551 "2015-11-12T22:03:29Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > Did Mahaloth just out himself as Scum? Don’t often see that in mafia, but then again, I guess we are close to end of Day, correct? I thought it was obvious. You guys got it right! ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/552 "2015-11-12T22:37:57Z")
I think we should continue debating tonight, because we might actually have a chance at a\*\* double wolf lynch\*\*. First we get **Mahaloth** , and if our Vigilante has another shot, we can recommend a candidate. Perhaps today can be a “two-fer.” If our Vigilante can kill again and will listen to us, then not giving him an opinion toDay is almost the same as advocating a “no lynch,” isn’t it? And “No Lynch,” we agreed, is bad. I will post my thoughts on that score later tonight after I figure out what those thoughts are. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/553 "2015-11-12T22:50:04Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I thought it was obvious. You guys got it right! So what are the chances Mahaloth is a Jester? > **[Jester](https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jester)** ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/554 "2015-11-12T22:55:23Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > I think we should continue debating tonight, because we might actually have a chance at a\*\* double wolf lynch\*\*. First we get **Mahaloth** , and if our Vigilante has another shot, we can recommend a candidate. Perhaps today can be a “two-fer.” If our Vigilante can kill again and will listen to us, then not giving him an opinion toDay is almost the same as advocating a “no lynch,” isn’t it? And “No Lynch,” we agreed, is bad. > > I will post my thoughts on that score later tonight after I figure out what those thoughts are. Agreed. We have candidates. We don’t necessarily agree who they are, but shutting down the discussion isn’t wise. I’ve voiced my “next best” candidates (Dante G and IRConfused with snfaulkner significantly behind). I have a “town” group as well, but I’ll refrain from stating it given that it would read like a wolf kill list and won’t shock anybody. I’ll take a look again and see if I want to adjust my scum listing, but I think I’m comfortable where it’s at. PCM was a surprise pick last night, so nobody should feel safe from the wolf night kill. If you’re holding your cards close to the vest, they won’t do any good if you don’t put them on the table. (Though if you’re an investigatory role, I don’t think toDay is the Day to reveal your findings as a claim. I suspect tomorrow we may want some direction.) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/555 "2015-11-13T01:38:21Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > So what are the chances Mahaloth is a Jester? > > [Jester - MafiaWiki](http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jester) I wish. That role would be awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/556 "2015-11-13T03:13:19Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > So what are the chances Mahaloth is a Jester? > > [Jester - MafiaWiki](http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jester) Awww, damn. I completely forgot about that role. That would make for a short game though. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/557 "2015-11-13T03:36:09Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > Awww, damn. I completely forgot about that role. That would make for a short game though. How often does such a role come up in these games? mafiascum gives the impression that it is pretty rare, and/or a bastard thing for a Moderator to do, so I’m ok with leaving my vote on him. And as I must every Thursday, since i don’t want to look like a lurker when EOD comes around, I’m leaving work for the week soon and off to drunkenland til Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/558 "2015-11-13T03:41:48Z")
Rah! Rah! We now have another Scum player known, and the game is back to looking very winnable indeed . If our vigilante can kill a wolf tonight, we will be close to ending the trouble in Paradise. ( **Note to self: STOP! Don’t be a Cloying Cheerleader!** ):smack: I think we should nominate someone for our vigilante to kill, because not doing so is akin to a “no lynch” as far as I can tell. If the vigilante was “one-shot,” there was no harm done in making the suggestions. Here are my two Vigilante kill candidates: \*\* IRConfused.\*\* We have heard little if anything from this player in two days.\*\* Professor Pepperwinkle \*\*had \*\*IRConfused \*\*as one of his lurker posters, but one that he argued we shouldn’t really pay attention to because he ( **IRC** )was new. \*\*IRConfused **was first to vote for Sario, but then said he became “more convinced” and kept his vote there. He said he was trying to “chart” players who were protecting other players, but never posted anything more about it. He smudged DeadCat in Post #60 for supposedly defending Sario when** DeadCat \*\*was doing nothing of the kind. **IRConfused** has not contributed much either toDay or yesterDay. Very little to pick through except… He did vote for **Mahaloth** on Day 2 in Post#376, so I guess that is a point in his favor. **Mahaloth** responded in post #381. So perhaps I am wrong about **IRConfuse\*\*\*\*d**. But someone has to be Scum. \*\* Dante G\*\*. I think his surprise reaction to **Mahaloth** ’s confession seemed genuine, but I can’t shake the feeling that other parts of his play are scummy. He misrepresents himself in post #504, where he says he had no reason to suspect either **Sario** or **Prof. Pepperwinkle** and thus did not vote. But, back in post #271, \*\*Dante \*\*says: **“I know I should probably be choosing between Sario and Prof. Pepperwinkle, but I think I would do better for myself if I stay firm with my vote as it is. Either one could be Scum based on the evidence and bandwagon votes tend to make those on the wagon look bad.”** That sounds to me like **Dante G** sees evidence against both, but doesn’t want to risk himself. Compare Post #271 with Post #504: **“I did not voice any suspicion on Pepperwinkle and Sario because at that time I had no reason to suspect them. So why would I throw out a false suspicion just to fit in? I at the time did not see what all the hoopla was about in regards to either of them, so I’m not gonna join up in a bandwagon vote just because unless I see some merit behind it.”** “I should…(271)” or “no reason (504)”… which is it? I think the first unguarded statement was the truth. Post #504 is revisionist history. If we look for a simple explanation of the **PCM** night kill, it may be partly because he was voting for **Dante**. I am very suspicious of **Dante G**. * * * - **snfaulkner** gets credit for voting against **Mahaloth** before the confession. I realize if I abandon my suspicion of **snfaulkner** , then I have no wolf to blame for the tide turn on day 1. I therefore keep a fair amount of doubt. Yet **snfaulkner** voted early for Scum **Prof. Pepperwinkle** and joined the wagon against Scum **Mahaloth**. I now can’t see killing him at this time. Perhaps **Hooker** is right and we should not post whom we think are the most Towny players right now. So I have deferred my further commentary. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/559 "2015-11-13T04:13:16Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > Awww, damn. I completely forgot about that role. That would make for a short game though. Yeah, you win, but the Town or Scum team can still win later. It’s a loner role. ---
**Author:** ![IRConfused](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/76d3ee/32.png) [@IRConfused](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IRConfused)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/560 "2015-11-13T05:51:57Z")
Yes, I have been awful quiet. First, lets get the vote out of the way. **VOTE MAHALOTH** I voted for him last week and I don’t have anyone else that I could point to and say that they are definitely a wolf. That’s not so say that I don’t have any other suspects, but at this point nothing jumps out and screams “wolf” to me. My current top three suspects in order are: (assuming 2 more wolfs to go after **Mahaloth** ) **Snfaulkner** (the jester comment certainly looks like FUD to me) **Dante G** (did I miss something? Where is his vote. He knows that **Mahaloth** outed himself. Is he really afraid of the Jester role?) **Octarine** (only jumped on after **Mahaloth** admitted being scum. Yes, the same can be said for me but I have voted for him before) I think that the only truly confirmed town right now is **Biotop** since **Mahaloth** has been trying to get rid of him from the start. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585.md?page=29)