# Trouble in Paradise (Mafia Game Thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [October 23, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585 "2015-10-23T22:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/621 "2015-11-19T04:08:42Z")
(Part 3 of 3) **Suburban Plankton** After three Days of game play and Three weeks of actual play, I find I have no better read on **Suburban Plankton** than when we started. This is particularly troubling as **SP** has not been lurking as of late. There was an abbreviated case and vote against **Octarine** , and a good bit of discussion about whether **TexCat** could have used her second shot. But I agree with\*\* Hooker\*\*. There hasn’t been a lot of Scum hunting. Why I think **Suburban Plankton** might be Town: • I like Post #537, which came just as **Mahaloth was about to confess (Post #538). I don’t agree with the assessment of Hooker, but I have been guilty of the “Rah Rah!” I also agree that Day 3 is a bit too early to wonder why experienced players are still around. • I find it interesting that Mahaloth’s confession is in a response to Suburban Plankton saying that his tone of late was out of character. Would wolf Mahaloth confess in reply to wolf Suburban Plankton**? Maybe… but that doesn’t seem so likely to me. Why confess in response to any one poster at all? • He voted for \*\*snfaulkner \*\*on Day 1, the player I now suspect most of being a wolf. Why I think **Suburban Plankton** might be Scum: • Other than the case against **Octarine** and His lengthy Post #537, I don’t see a lot of Scum hunting. Technical information is helpful, but **SP** is, I believe, an experienced player who could add a lot more than he already has. • I didn’t notice until **Hooker** mentioned it that **SP** did not vote for **Mahaloth**? I wonder why not? I don’t think it is necessarily a Scum tell, but it is notable. I await an explanation. • \*\*Hooker \*\*also notes that **SP** didn’t post again after worrying that **Mahaloth’s confession was meant to stifle conversation. So why did it stifle your conversation, SP**? Lean: _Still_ No Read +++++ **snfaulkner:** How can a player have the third most posts in this game, but have so little content? I feel as if snfaulkner has been lurking, so it very much surprises me that he is number 3 behind **Hooker** and the loquacious\*\* Professor P\*\*. in post count. Why **snfaulkner** might be Town: • He voted for Scum\*\* Professor Pepperwinkle\*\* in Post #127 • He voted for Scum **Mahaloth** in Post #519. This comes just 20 minutes after\*\* Texcat\*\* and **Hooker** made their substantial posts accusing **Mahaloth**. Why I think \*\*snfaulkner \*\*is scum: • Both his votes above for wolves come with the caveat that maybe he will change his vote later. However, his post #345 where he votes for **WFTomba** contains no such out clause. • **snfaulkner** ’s vote switch on Day 1 was absolutely key in turning the tide from **Prof. Pepperwinkle** to **Sario**. He claims it was **Prof. P** who convinced him. He also cites **Astral** ’s commentary on\*\* Sario **and Sario’s unfulfilled “rereading” promises. This from snfaulkner, the player _who has been promising reread commentary all game_. But rarely delivering. • snfaulkner never really seemed to be behind his early vote on Prof. Pepperwinkle, calling it a “panic vote” in Post #176. In Post #188, he says “I’m open to suggestions…give me a reason to vote elsewhere.” And he is asking that of **Prof. P\*\*. himself. Hint:** snfaulkner**, if you ask the person you are voting for to give you a reason to vote elsewhere, they probably will. • The “Jester” thing (Post #553) is just weird. It struck me odd the first time I am read it, and more so now. I don’t want to try and read anything into **Mahaloth** ’s return commentary, but why did this come up at all? I still don’t know whether\*\* snfaulkner **was being serious here or not, though in Post#612 he seems to claim he was. • In post #611, snfaulkner says he has been “re-re-r-e-re-re- reading this thread.The “snuggles” spreadsheet is no more. We do get more promises of “more to come.” We have been getting those promises all game. In Post #618, in spite of all that “re-re….reading” he decides to vote based “ONLY on lynch the experienced” and votes for Dante G. With “more to come…” This is a crummy reason to vote for Dante G, because I don’t think anyone would have expected Dante to have been night killed at this point— which is why one lynches the experienced later in the game. _They ought to have been night killed but were not_. Did snfaulkner not get that from rereading as it has been discussed several times? I have been looking for an explanation of what happened on Day 1, and speculating that a wolf other than Mahaloth just about had to be involved in the mislynch switch. I also suspect **Mahaloth\*\* might not have been so quick to confess if he didn’t have a wolf already in there voting for him. I have seen more excuses for not posting and more promises for “more to come from** snfaulkner** than all other players combined. Unless there is something “more to come” of real substance my vote is this: Vote: snfaulkner As I write this \*\*snfaulkner \*\*continues to make his cases. So far he is concentrating on voting for the experienced, which I can’t for the life of me see any sense in at this time. He seems to think we suspected and lynched \*\*Mahaloth \*\*because he was experienced. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/622 "2015-11-19T04:42:13Z")
[QUOTE=Biotop;18871337 • Both his votes above for wolves come with the caveat that maybe he will change his vote later. However, his post #345 where he votes for **WFTomba** contains no such out clause.[/quote] Day1 I was very unsure of myself, which is why I was convinced to switch my vote. which turned out to be wrong. Day2 I stood my ground, which turned out to be wrong. Day3 My vote was based only on someone else’s idea that I was unsure about, turned out to be right. Tho with only one data point, I’m not sure if i was right for the right reason or dumb luck. ToDay I am trying to combine the “good advise” which worked (maybe) with more sleuthing. Sleuthing that I am unsure about. I give the “might change my vote” clause when I am unsure, which is most of the time. > [@](#): > > • **snfaulkner** ’s vote switch on Day 1 was absolutely key in turning the tide from **Prof. Pepperwinkle** to **Sario**. He claims it was **Prof. P** who convinced him. He also cites **Astral** ’s commentary on\*\* Sario **and Sario’s unfulfilled “rereading” promises. This from snfaulkner, the player _who has been promising reread commentary all game_. But rarely delivering. > • snfaulkner never really seemed to be behind his early vote on Prof. Pepperwinkle, calling it a “panic vote” in Post #176. In Post #188, he says “I’m open to suggestions…give me a reason to vote elsewhere.” And he is asking that of **Prof. P\*\*. himself. Hint:** snfaulkner**, if you ask the person you are voting for to give you a reason to vote elsewhere, they probably will. I’ve addressed this today above and before. > [@](#): > > • The “Jester” thing (Post #553) is just weird. It struck me odd the first time I am read it, and more so now. I don’t want to try and read anything into **Mahaloth** ’s return commentary, but why did this come up at all? I still don’t know whether\*\* snfaulkner \*\*was being serious here or not, though in Post#612 he seems to claim he was. I thought it was a valid question. Especially being new to the game. Why would someone confess to being a wolf? I did some research and I discovered the Jester thing as a potential reason. Now, did I actually think he was a Jester? Ultimately no, that is why I didn’t switch my vote. > [@](#): > > • In post #611, **snfaulkner** says he has been “re-re-r-e-re-re- reading this thread.The “snuggles” spreadsheet is no more. We do get more promises of “more to come.” We have been getting those promises all game. In Post #618, in spite of all that “re-re….reading” he decides to vote based “ONLY on lynch the experienced” and votes for **Dante G.** With “more to come…” This is a crummy reason to vote for **Dante G** I agree, which is why i gave the big “HOWEVER”, because there was more investigation to come. > [@](#): > > because I don’t think anyone would have expected **Dante** to have been night killed at this point— which is why one lynches the experienced later in the game. _They ought to have been night killed but were not_. Did **snfaulkner** not get that from rereading as it has been discussed several times? This is a good point. All of my deductions today have been based on vote orders and experience. And i admitted as such. Which is why there is still more to come once I put everything in context. > [@](#): > > I have seen more excuses for not posting and more promises for “more to come from **snfaulkner** than all other players combined. Unless there is something “more to come” of real substance my vote is this: > > Vote: snfaulkner Either you believe I’m an incompetent boob rookie town, or a genius newbie mastermind wolf. Either way I suppose lynching me helps the town. I’m doing the best i can with the time I have to help root out wolves. > [@](#): > > He seems to think we suspected and lynched \*\*Mahaloth \*\*because he was experienced. Huh? No, I seem to think _I_ suspected and lynched based on experience and it seemed to work, sorta…kinda…a wolf was killed that I voted for finally. I’m trying to hone my technique out loud so you can see my thought processes, which I admit might not make sense to anyone, because it barely does to me. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/623 "2015-11-19T04:54:29Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > **Hooker Chemical** certainly strikes me as having played a lot on here before… I’ve played Mafia once. I’ve played other hidden teams games once on message boards (The Resistance). I’ve played hidden team games dozens of times face to face. I think you have the others correct or close to correct. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/624 "2015-11-19T04:58:51Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > I’ve played Mafia once. I’ve played other hidden teams games once on message boards (The Resistance). I’ve played hidden team games dozens of times face to face. I think you have the others correct or close to correct. Noted. I used to be a huge gamer until about 2000, then stopped cold turkey. But I’ve never ever heard of this game, in face or online until a couple months ago. Oh well, I seem to be making a hash of it. But it’s still fun! ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/625 "2015-11-19T05:34:44Z")
You know what really bothers me, **snfaulkner**? I have spent all day putting these thoughts together. I believed you were the strongest candidate for Scum going in toDay, and I made my commentary based on that. I can’t see how you have come to the conclusions you have reached if you have been rereading and rereading. I think a wolf had to be involved in the Professor P. mislynch. You have been giving off Scum vibes to me all game. So what really bothers me? I went to bed after my last post and read your Post #622 comments on my phone while rubbing my dogs head as he slept between my wife and I. Then I reread your comments again. Sigh. For whatever reason I believe you. That’s what bothers me. Unvote snfaulkner Vote Dante G. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/626 "2015-11-19T05:46:42Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > You know what really bothers me, **snfaulkner**? I have spent all day putting these thoughts together. I believed you were the strongest candidate for Scum going in toDay, and I made my commentary based on that. I can’t see how you have come to the conclusions you have reached if you have been rereading and rereading. I think a wolf had to be involved in the Professor P. mislynch. You have been giving off Scum vibes to me all game. > > So what really bothers me? I went to bed after my last post and read your Post #622 comments on my phone while rubbing my dogs head as he slept between my wife and I. Then I reread your comments again. Sigh. > > For whatever reason I believe you. That’s what bothers me. > > Unvote snfaulkner > > Vote Dante G. You believe I’m town? Or you believe my admittedly shaky reasoning for voting **Dante G**? I like to think I’m good at defending myself, because that is the ONE thing I KNOW in this game, that I am town. But man, I’m having a tough time of being the accuser. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/627 "2015-11-19T07:06:45Z")
I must admit that when I went to bed last night (around 10pm GMT), still waiting for Biotop to complete his thoughts, I was beginning to worry we wouldn’t have enough evidence to go on toDay. So it was great to wake up to a whole slew of analysis by Biotop, Hooker, Octarine, and snfaulkner - thanks guys. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > You believe I’m town? Or you believe my admittedly shaky reasoning for voting **Dante G**? Obviously I can’t answer for Biotop, but i find myself agreeing with a lot of his posts. As you know, I share his suspicion of you. But I also agree with his most recent post. I don’t think you are going about scum hunting the right way, but at least you are trying. As a rookie myself, I did exactly the same things as you Days 1&2 (flipping on Day 1, which was wrong, and standing firm on Day 2, which was wrong). The main thing that convinces me (for now) though is Hooker pointing out that you voted for Mahaloth before his confession, which I had missed in my earlier analysis. I tend to believe you when you said you hadn’t seen the two posts just before your vote at the time you voted, due to the timings. Regardless of that, I think it would be an odd thing for a wolf to vote for another wolf power role rather than make an alternative accusation, especially when there are a few lurkers that could be candidates. Therefore: **UNVOTE snfaulkner** [COLOR=“Blue”] **VOTE Dante G** [/COLOR] As others have said, I’d still like to hear more from Suburban Plankton, and Dante himself. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/628 "2015-11-19T12:55:02Z")
Ok, well, in regards to Faulkner’s recent posts and Biotop and Dead Cats recent changes towards voting for me, let me a few things. First off, we have the fact that Falukner’s vote for me is based mainly on the notion that I am an experienced player. That is true, I am an experienced player, as are others in this game, so why me in particular? Is it because of my play style sounding more cryptic than Town? A fair assessment. I have explained numerous times that the mafia games on The Dope are played a bit differently than the games I was used to. Dopers are way more analytical and thorough, relying only on the players posts for information. The board I am from played games more for the fun of the story and the mystery of who was who. The mod dropped subtle hints in the narrative about the nights activities and Role Claiming was discouraged and rarely done at all. I can honestly tell you that the way alot of players here post and requote other players with long well thought out posts - that is something you will probably never see from me. Thats just not my style, sorry to say. Something else. Snfaulkner drops his vote for me and gives his reasons, again, the reason being mainly because Iam experienced. Soon after, Biotop and Dead Cat both change their votes to me. Stranger still is the fact that both of them had been voting for Faulkner before he dropped my name. Now I’m willing to bet that of these 3 players, Bio, Dead and Faulkner, one of them at least is Scum. I’ve already got my vote going for Hookerchemical, but I think I am going to change it. Unvote HookerChemical Vote Snfaulkner Besides the fact that I don’t trust his logic, there is the little gem he posted in post 619. In speaking of my vote patterns he says : > [@](#): > > Day3 > 2nd vote on Octarine. Again, easy to vote on a townie to try and get a lynch going. Big thing that stands out to me is that we have no confirmation that Octarine is Town. Aside from Octarine himself (if he is Town), the only ones that would know who is Town are Scum. So why would Faulkner say that about Octarine as if it’s known?? ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/629 "2015-11-19T13:06:34Z")
Oh and here is a Vote Count, since our Mod is away … Dante G = 4 (Dead Cat,Octarine,snfaulkner,Biotop) snfaulkner = 2 (HookerChemical,Dante G) ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/630 "2015-11-19T14:47:33Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > You believe I’m town? Or you believe my admittedly shaky reasoning for voting **Dante G**? > > I like to think I’m good at defending myself, because that is the ONE thing I KNOW in this game, that I am town. But man, I’m having a tough time of being the accuser. Your reasoning for voting for **Dante** is certainly wrong. I just think you sound like a new player who is struggling a bit. I am not voting for \*\*Dante \*\* based on your reasoning, but on mine and that of others who have been posting. Try rereading this thread again, because all that rereading is something I don’t really believe you have been doing, at least with critical thought. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/631 "2015-11-19T15:31:55Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > Big thing that stands out to me is that we have no confirmation that Octarine is Town. Aside from Octarine himself (if he is Town), the only ones that would know who is Town are Scum. So why would Faulkner say that about Octarine as if it’s known?? **Dante** , this is a fair point. In the cold light of day I may have to reassess again. I have not been making my best decisions at midnight during this game. I will be at work today and thus only able to check in by phone. I hope our two non-voters will weigh in. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/632 "2015-11-19T15:42:35Z")
Dante, I agree with a lot of what you just posted, but like Biotop I am voting for you because you are currently my top scum candidate, not because I was swayed by snfaulkner’s arguments. What snfaulkner did (in his recent posts and his vote for Mahaloth) was give me enough reasons to not vote for him, and you (Dante) were next on my list. At the moment, that hasn’t changed. If you die and flip town, I’ll go after snfaulkner next Day if I can. If you die and flip scum, I’ll be hunting among Suburban Plankton, Octarine, and IRConfused for the last (hopefully) remaining wolf. If you (Dante) and snf both end up being town (which seems very unlikely to me given the current evidence, but you never know), I agree that makes me and Biotop look bad, but I know I’m town and I have strong town feelings on Biotop. Nevertheless, I don’t have anyone as confirmed town at this stage, it could be that those who I believe look very town (and have consistently done so since the start), namely Hooker and Biotop, are in fact wolves playing a very good game. I am itching to find out, actually - I think there is a wolf among us who is playing a very good game and could yet triumph almost singlehandedly. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/633 "2015-11-19T15:44:53Z")
By the way, end of Day is in a little over 24 hours, so if anyone wants to confess to being a wolf, now is the traditional time to do so :). ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/634 "2015-11-19T16:08:48Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > Observation: Mahaloth’s confession got both snfaulkner and Dante unvoted in favor of him. Apart from just being tired of playing, it’s possible that Mahaloth figured he was the most obvious wolf, and by sacrificing himself he could give stealthier ones longer lifespans. This is a good observation. I had initially focused on the people who were collecting votes as the ones that \*\*Mahaloth \*\*was trying to deflect attention from, but it could just as easily have been anyone else, as well…and if we believe Mahaloth when he says he forgot then EoD was (and there’s really no reason not to), then it may all be a moot point anyway. And anything game-related that he said after his confession should be ignored completely. > [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > **VOTE Dante G** > > Because he is one of my scum candidates, but if he flips town that could give us a fair amount more information. I’ve never liked the “even if they’re Town, we’ll get information out of their lynch” argument. Every time I head it, it sounds to me like the person saying it is trying to manufacture a reason why their vote was ‘good’ for when their target turns up Town…which smacks of PIS. > [@HookerChemical](#): > > I have a couple questions for Suburban Plankton: > Why didn’t you vote for Mahaloth? > Who are your scum leans at this point? Originally I hadn’t voted for Mahaloth because I didn’t have a particularly strong Scum lean on him; his confession caught me totally off guard. At that point, I didn’t immediately switch because I was still trying to figure out whether he was really ‘confessing’, or if he was just a frustrated Townie who was ‘giving up’. Then I was away from the game for a while, and by the time I got back the vote was no longer in question. And at that point, other than the confession I still didn’t have a strong Scum lean on Mahaloth, so I saw no reason to vote for him; my vote certainly wasn’t needed to secure the lynch, and it would have served no purpose for me to vote for him just because everybody else was. As for my Scum leans at this point…that’s where I’m heading with this post (and perhaps the next one or two) > [@snfaulkner](#): > > SO, based on ONLY on lynch-the experienced, I think I have to > > **VOTE DANTE G** It’s already been pointed out by others, but this is a really, \*\*\*really \*\*\*bad basis for voting. > [@Dante\_G](#): > > Vote Snfaulkner > Besides the fact that I don’t trust his logic, there is the little gem he posted in post 619. In speaking of my vote patterns he says : > > > [@](#): > > > > Day3 > > 2nd vote on Octarine. Again, easy to vote on a townie to try and get a lynch going. > > Big thing that stands out to me is that we have no confirmation that Octarine is Town. Aside from Octarine himself (if he is Town), the only ones that would know who is Town are Scum. So why would Faulkner say that about Octarine as if it’s known?? This may be a very good catch… I’m going to post this now just to get something out there, and be back in a few minutes with more thoughts and a vote ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/635 "2015-11-19T16:34:09Z")
I went back and looked over my own posts in this game, to refresh my memory of what I might have been thinking weeks ago. A few posts stood out for me. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > [@Dante\_G](#): > > > > Based on that info as it is, I’d say **snfaulkner** would be a good vote for Scum, considering they changed their vote for\*\* Professor\*\*, who was Scum, to **Sario** , who was Town. > > > > Vote snfaulkner > > Why \*\*snfaulker \*\*over **Dead Cat** , who made the same vote-switch (and put \*\*Sario \*\*in the lead)? > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > The back-and-forth between **WF Tomba** and **Dante G** in Posts 419-424 strikes me as either Town-on-Town (2 players completely missing what the other is trying to say) or Scum-on-Scum (2 players deliberately inventing conflict to try to put distance between themselves). At the moment my money it on Scum v. Scum (which is much more a comment on WFT than on Dante). > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m leaning Town on **Dead Cat**. Quite a bit of this lean comes from just one part of a single post from Day 1 > It’s not so much that the statement is accurate (because it very much isn’t), but just the fact that it was made. I just don’t see Scum making a statement like that so early in the game. Add to that the fact that Dead Cat later cast the vote that put **Sario** ahead of **Prof P.** for the lynch, and I have a very hard time seeing Scum putting that big of a target on their back. A couple mid-game conclusions: I still think that I was right about the **WF Tomba** / **Dante G** discussion…and since Tomba was Town, that would make Dante Town as well. I voted for **snfaulkner** way back on Day 1 because of a preponderance of cheese-related posts. Others have mentioned recently that although his quantity of posts is high, the quality still hasn’t improved since then. That, combined with the possible slip that Dante pointed out, makes me lean Scum on snfaulkner. I was leaning Town on **Dead Cat** earlier, based in large part on the way he acted on Day 1. Now I’m not so sure. He placed the go-ahead vote on Sario on Day 1. He voted ‘with the crowd’ for WF Tomba on Day 2 (his vote made it a 5-2 contest). On Day 3 he placed the first vote on Mahaloth, which was only the third vote of the day, and then did not post again after Mahaloth’s confession, when the vote stood at 4-2. If he had been bussing Mahaloth early in the Day, then he would have found himself caught at that point with no way to change his vote. Here in Day 4, he started out with a vote on Dante, but with the “if he flips town that could give us a fair amount more information” caveat. Then he switched his vote to snfaulkner, with the " I reserve the right to change my mind later in the Day" caveat. And then after Dante G picked up a couple of votes, he exercised that right and switched back. So based on voting history and patterns, I’m now leaning Scum on Dead Cat. So the question before me now is whether to vote for \*\*snfaulkner \*\*and create a tie, or to vote for **Dead Cat** as a one-off. Right now, the stronger lean is on Dead Cat, so that’s the way I’m going to go. I’m assuming that mine will not be the last vote cast toDay; hopefully what follows will help me to know if my suspicions are correct. **Vote Dead Cat** ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/636 "2015-11-19T17:15:31Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > This is a good observation. I had initially focused on the people who were collecting votes as the ones that \*\*Mahaloth \*\*was trying to deflect attention from, but it could just as easily have been anyone else, as well…and if we believe Mahaloth when he says he forgot then EoD was (and there’s really no reason not to), then it may all be a moot point anyway. And anything game-related that he said after his confession should be ignored completely. Was my initial response to Octarine incorrect? I think the confession pulled only one vote off snfaulkner and none off Dante, and it would have been trading a power role for (presumably) a vanilla wolf. If I have the timeline wrong, let me know where I’m off. > [@HookerChemical](#): > > Though the unvoting of snfaulkner and Dante is a good observation, I don’t think the theory that Mahaloth was protecting them by confessing holds up when you look at the timing. I pulled my vote from Dante to put the third vote on Mahaloth, and I don’t think there was another vote on Dante at the time. snfaulkner was in a little more trouble than Dante, but hardly dire straights. Prior to the confession, Biotop was the only voter on him. He’s been on many “potential scum” lists and certainly had the potential to rack up votes, but it wasn’t actually happening. Mahaloth’s power role makes it look even less like a sacrifice and more like a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/637 "2015-11-19T17:26:12Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > A couple mid-game conclusions: > > I still think that I was right about the **WF Tomba** / **Dante G** discussion…and since Tomba was Town, that would make Dante Town as well. > I voted for **snfaulkner** way back on Day 1 because of a preponderance of cheese-related posts. Others have mentioned recently that although his quantity of posts is high, the quality still hasn’t improved since then. That, combined with the possible slip that Dante pointed out, makes me lean Scum on snfaulkner. > > I was leaning Town on **Dead Cat** earlier, based in large part on the way he acted on Day 1. Now I’m not so sure. > He placed the go-ahead vote on Sario on Day 1. > He voted ‘with the crowd’ for WF Tomba on Day 2 (his vote made it a 5-2 contest). > On Day 3 he placed the first vote on Mahaloth, which was only the third vote of the day, and then did not post again after Mahaloth’s confession, when the vote stood at 4-2. If he had been bussing Mahaloth early in the Day, then he would have found himself caught at that point with no way to change his vote. > Here in Day 4, he started out with a vote on Dante, but with the “if he flips town that could give us a fair amount more information” caveat. Then he switched his vote to snfaulkner, with the " I reserve the right to change my mind later in the Day" caveat. And then after Dante G picked up a couple of votes, he exercised that right and switched back. > So based on voting history and patterns, I’m now leaning Scum on Dead Cat. > So the question before me now is whether to vote for \*\*snfaulkner \*\*and create a tie, or to vote for **Dead Cat** as a one-off. > > Right now, the stronger lean is on Dead Cat, so that’s the way I’m going to go. I’m assuming that mine will not be the last vote cast toDay; hopefully what follows will help me to know if my suspicions are correct. > > **Vote Dead Cat** I disagree with a lot of this, but I find it plausible. As has been mentioned before, this game is hard! ---
**Author:** ![IRConfused](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/76d3ee/32.png) [@IRConfused](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IRConfused)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/638 "2015-11-19T17:46:00Z")
Ok, I think my usefulness is probably at an end. I hope that what I have to say will at least help clarify the situation for someone. If we miss-lynch today, we will be down to 4 – 2. Technically winnable by town but not great odds. I have been lurking intentionally. I had high hopes of being able to give out enough info this week for a win but I chose unwisely this weekend. I am just going to throw out what I know and hope it’s enough. Week 1 investigation: **Mahaloth** is a werewolf Week 2 investigation: **Dante G** is town Week 3 investigation: **snfaulkner** is town I also know that there is an Alfa Wolf that will investigate as town. At least one of the two people we are currently voting for is town. They both may be town. I am currently leaning toward **Dante G** being town and **snfaulkner** being Wolf. I am hoping that this info will be enough to tip the tide to Town. Although there is currently no evidence that we have any Masons, I am really hoping that we have some and that this info will make it obvious to them who the remaining wolves are. At this point, I am almost certainly going to be night killed this weekend. Looking back, I probably could have played this differently, but I think if I waited any longer to claim (assuming I made it thru this weekend) I would be less likely to have a positive effect on the outcome. **Detective IRConfused** the Town Cop ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/639 "2015-11-19T17:55:20Z")
Hmmm, well, IRC, do you have a vote to go along with your evidence? One thing that stands out to me in your investigations was the fact that all the players you checked out are either A) a player we already know the status of - Mahaloth and B) the 2 players on the chopping block - me(Dante) and snfaulkner. This strikes me as interesting, anyone else?? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/640 "2015-11-19T18:29:21Z")
I don’t have a problem with the targets that \*\*IRConfused \*\*has claimed. All three were plausible given the collective suspicions of the Town. And he did vote for \*\*Mahaloth \*\*on both Day 2 and 3, so that lends credence to his claim that he knew Mahaloth was Scum. Also, this post does read as defending **Dante G** (this was from early on Day 3, after he would have received his Night 2 results) > [@IRConfused](#): > > > [@Biotop](#): > > > > **Octarine** : > > > > Help me out. I am struggling to come up with a lot of good reasons for \*\*PCM \*\*to have been targeted. I don’t see the sense of it unless his role was somehow learned. What other reasons do you see as possible other than the kill relating to \*\*Dante \*\*? > > **PCM** was the only person to not vote with the bandwagon both times. Maybe the wolves picked up on that and decided that he was not being swayed by there arguments. I believe that a nightkill against someone that is making a good argument against others will sway the remaining town folk to take that argument much more seriously. I am going to take what he was saying with a grain of salt and keep in mind that he may have been going down the rabbit hole and the wolfs came up with a way to get everyone else going the same way. Of course, it’s fairly easy for Scum to fake a Cop claim, because they have the benefit of hindsight in selecting their past targets, so perhaps I shouldn’t read too much into that. What puzzles me more is the fact that he has apparently decided that \*\*snfaulkner \*\*must be the Alpha Wolf despite his investigation This post was from last Night: > [@IRConfused](#): > > On second thought, I would put **Octarine** first, then **snfalkner** , and finally **Dante G**. OK, he suspects snfaulkner, which is why he investigates him last Night; no problem there. But he also claims to suspect Dante G, who by his admission he had already cleared on Night 2. Unless he thinks Dante G is the Alpha…in which case he shouldn’t now suspect snfaulkner… So we either have a Town Cop who’s so paranoid that he refuses to trust \*any \*of his investigations, or we have Scum making a false claim and failing to put together a coherent case. But why would Scum make this particular fake claim at this time? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585.md?page=33)