# Trouble in Paradise (Mafia Game Thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [October 23, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585 "2015-10-23T22:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/141 "2015-10-26T16:22:53Z")
I keep accidentally hitting “submit” when I mean to hit “done” on my phone’s keyboard. Sorry for so many sequential posts. Anyway… > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > Hmm. Is it scummy to forget that you haven’t voted for anyone? Since you’ve checked back in with this post, would you mind addressing this? > [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > I see you’ve already started casually laying the groundwork for a bogus case against me. First you repeatedly praise players for casting suspicion on me and voting for me, then you shoot down a theory that happens to imply that I’m Town. All without casting a vote for me yourself. Very clever. A dangerous player indeed! > > **Vote Astral Rejection** > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I… don’t understand what you’re talking about? I’m commenting on the quality of each voter and assessing for THEIR scummyness. I’m not commenting on the actual case they’re making, but how they’re making it. > > Also, what theory? I think Prof. P was making reference to the previous game, not actually floating a theory that you’re a trio of masons. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/142 "2015-10-26T16:39:08Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > To Sub. Plankton - You are right I did not post a vote. I had cast suspicion on Tomba back on post #52, but I neglected to actually vote. That was my mistake. > > As more posts have come along, however, I have a few other ideas to toss out there. Biotops post rant about voting based off of past play styles does not read as Scummy to me. The fact that Mahaloth has all sorts of suspicions regarding it and is in turn voting for Biotop, leads me to see Mahaloth as Scum pretending to jump at a player whoM he “believes” to have Scum’s best interest. > > **[COLOR=“Blue”]VOTE MAHALOTH[]** Nope. It’s just my top suspicion on Day 1. Still, your vote on me makes just about as much sense and it is not a particularly bad Day 1 vote. If you feel it, vote it. Until actual evidence starts to mount later in the Days. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/143 "2015-10-26T16:42:21Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Well, I figured you were joking. PCM’s vote comes from me posting a lot and crying “lynch the lurker” too early. Dead Cat voted on me because… I don’t really know. Dead Cat, why exactly are you voting to lynch me? No it doesn’t , I stated twice why I voted for you . You are trying to divert attention from the actual reason for my vote to a bogus reason. You even acknowledge that you saw my reason with your ‘wishful thinking’ response . This just indicates you are feeling more than a little guilty over the snuggles and are trying to deflect. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/144 "2015-10-26T16:46:25Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > So, **Prof** …you’ve done quite a bit of talking, and a fair amount of analysis…do you think you might be placing a vote of your own any time soon? No, not until Wednesday. I don’t see anyone who strikes me as scum, and I’m not into revenge votes. On Wednesday I’ll vote among the lurkers unless I need to cast a cover-my-ass vote. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/145 "2015-10-26T16:50:47Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > No, not until Wednesday. I don’t see anyone who strikes me as scum, and I’m not into revenge votes. On Wednesday I’ll vote among the lurkers unless I need to cast a cover-my-ass vote. If you have no scum leans at all, how are you planning on selecting a lurker? Random chance? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/146 "2015-10-26T16:51:11Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > No it doesn’t , I stated twice why I voted for you . You are trying to divert attention from the actual reason for my vote to a bogus reason. You even acknowledge that you saw my reason with your ‘wishful thinking’ response . > This just indicates you are feeling more than a little guilty over the snuggles and are trying to deflect. Okay, I was working from memory and forgot: you voted for me because I expressed nostalgic feelings of cameraderie from the last game, right? ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/147 "2015-10-26T16:56:18Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > If you have no scum leans at all, how are you planning on selecting a lurker? Random chance? :dubious: Whew. Okay, at the moment the bottom of the post count is: WF Tomba 5 Octarine 5 Sario 5 IRConfused 5 **If** I was voting now, I would skip over Octarine and IRConfused, since they are new, and new players lurk instinctively, or at least did in the last two games. Both of the others should know not to lurk by now, so I’d probably vote for Tomba, since voting for Sario might look like a retaliation vote. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/148 "2015-10-26T16:57:42Z")
No because you are expressing over confidence in this game that other players are town. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/149 "2015-10-26T17:10:34Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > No because you are expressing over confidence in this game that other players are town. I concede the point. I don’t know Biotop or Tomba are Town, and shouldn’t have reached out to claim a Town-sanctioned Trio again, at least not this early. It’s a better reason to vote than most this fine Day, even if it is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Sario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sario/32/18580_2.png) [@Sario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sario)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/150 "2015-10-26T17:31:19Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > No, not until Wednesday. I don’t see anyone who strikes me as scum, and I’m not into revenge votes. On Wednesday I’ll vote among the lurkers unless I need to cast a cover-my-ass vote. This sounds like you already know that you’re not find anyone suspicious, which seems quite scummy to me. My vote for you is officially a serious one now. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/151 "2015-10-26T17:43:53Z")
> [@Sario](#): > > This sounds like you already know that you’re not find anyone suspicious, which seems quite scummy to me. > > My vote for you is officially a serious one now. It’s the first day. I’m usually clueless until someone does something fairly obvious. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/152 "2015-10-26T17:50:24Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I was referring to posts 96-98 specifically, where **sfaulnker** spends the majority of his contribution for the Day listing the people who have made cheese jokes. Those are the kind of post where post count should not be considered a good indicator, as I mentioned earlier. I don’t know that my contributions are that much better, but at worse you all will have an understanding of how I’m trying to play when I flip. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/153 "2015-10-26T17:57:01Z")
Wow, I’m amazed how the same information (well, for those of us who are town) can be interpreted in so many different ways! I guess I’ll soon get used to it. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > I’d like to suggest you go and read over the last two games here to see why I’m so strong on “lynch the lurker”. I’m not going to I’m afraid, a) because I haven’t the time and b) because if you so happen to be a wolf in this game, it gives you perfect cover and you have been a little too ready to draw attention to this. To my mind. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Well, I figured you were joking. PCM’s vote comes from me posting a lot and crying “lynch the lurker” too early. Dead Cat voted on me because… I don’t really know. Dead Cat, why exactly are you voting to lynch me? See above, and because I agree with the others who have also voted for you, both before and since. I read your posts as getting increasingly desperate to hide your scumminess. Once again, I sincerely apologise if I am incorrect but I’m just calling it as I see it - what else can one do? > [@HookerChemical](#): > > Do I get points for catching Johnny’s first fuck-up? I’ve still got a vote lingering on WF Tomba (post 45). Having noted that… > > UNOVTE WF TOMBA > VOTE DEAD CAT > > This is a “gut feeling” based vote. DC is coming off as unnecessarily combative, which is a potential scum tell. I don’t know if it’s the fact that I played the last game with Prof. P and get the references he’s making, but his comments weren’t scummy. They’re self-referential and meta, akin to the cheese joke running gags, but they weren’t initially scummy. It may be “good vibes” carryover from last game, but I’m siding with Prof P in this dispute for now. I’ll reread the conversation again tomorrow again and see if I still feel that way. One factor in DC’s favor is that it’s a poor scum gambit to be unnecessarily combative with a verbose and friendly poster when you’re the newcomer. “Good vibes” and history are likely to carry over to the new guy. I’ll be considering this and trying to put away “good vibes” the next time I reread. Well, I guess replying to this isn’t going to help my case with you, but to be honest I’m not too worried about that at this stage. Like **Biotop** said I just don’t get the whole carrying over from previous games stuff. If I’m being combative it’s because I have picked up a particularly strong vibe about Prof. P, and I am literally prepared to die on that hill. I will either be vindicated or scorned for making a rookie error, I guess. To be honest, I’m now convinced enough to say: if the Prof gets lynched at the end of the day and it’s revealed he is indeed scum, won’t that make me virtually confirmed town? If I get lynched at the end of the day and it’s revealed I’m town, well, hopefully that will give the rest of you useful information too. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > There is something off-putting about this post from Biotop. I dunno, it just rubs me the wrong way, I guess. I don’t think it’s a bad idea to look at people’s playstyles from recent games at all and what happened in previous games is not always story-related. It’s game-related. > > The cranky thing at the end bothers me even more. It sounds like an attempt to justify the post. I don’t think it is OOG at all. > > Bah, I’m voting. > > **Vote Biotop** I disagree, but not enough to make me particularly suspicious of you. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/154 "2015-10-26T18:10:11Z")
It’s a gut vote. I can respect that. I don’t like it, but I respect it. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/155 "2015-10-26T18:42:59Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > It’s the first day. I’m usually clueless until someone does something fairly obvious. Which only rarely happens. I’ve written about the game quite a bit, especially in the “improve how we play mafia” thread. I think a tremendous amount of the game is luck and people rarely make huge mistakes. Day 1 is even more luck-based, which is why I don’t mind “vibe” votes. I have voted many times on feel. Everybody gets annoyed when they die Day 1, scum or not. Vibe is a fine way to go(he says now expecting to get a bunch of vibe votes). ---
**Author:** ![Sario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sario/32/18580_2.png) [@Sario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sario)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/156 "2015-10-26T18:54:06Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > I’m not going to I’m afraid, a) because I haven’t the time and b) because if you so happen to be a wolf in this game, it gives you perfect cover and you have been a little too ready to draw attention to this. To my mind. > . I think the point he’s trying to make is that in those games some of our biggest lurkers (particularly myself) turned out to be scum ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/157 "2015-10-26T19:12:55Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > Well, I guess replying to this isn’t going to help my case with you, but to be honest I’m not too worried about that at this stage. Like **Biotop** said I just don’t get the whole carrying over from previous games stuff. If I’m being combative it’s because I have picked up a particularly strong vibe about Prof. P, and I am literally prepared to die on that hill. I will either be vindicated or scorned for making a rookie error, I guess. > > To be honest, I’m now convinced enough to say: if the Prof gets lynched at the end of the day and it’s revealed he is indeed scum, won’t that make me virtually confirmed town? If I get lynched at the end of the day and it’s revealed I’m town, well, hopefully that will give the rest of you useful information too. You shouldn’t be too worried at this stage. I’m getting a vote out there to express my minor suspicions and I’ve already commuted to a reread of the dispute. We’re a long way from Friday, and my vote has been fickle so far. In part, that’s me addressing baggage from last game where I was strongly anti-lynch Day One by getting a vote out and reiterating that a lynch would be best for town. The rules this game make me much more pro-lynch because any no-lynch scenario requires a tie, and that would be too easy for scum to manipulate. (Technically, I think a no-lynch could be okay, but setting it up would be a house of cards. Risk greatly outweighs reward of the no-lynch condition.) I agree that Prof P flipping scum would be strong vindication. It’s possible it’s a bus job, but that seems less likely than you being townie and good scum hunting. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/158 "2015-10-26T20:05:31Z")
> [@Sario](#): > > I think the point he’s trying to make is that in those games some of our biggest lurkers (particularly myself) turned out to be scum Right. In the first game, 4 out of 5 scum were lurkers, and in the second game, 2 out of 3 scum were lurkers. Hence my enthusiasm to lynch the lurker. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/159 "2015-10-26T20:40:04Z")
I don’t know what exactly there is to address, **Astral**. Obviously there is a plausible innocent explanation for what you’re doing, but for a good Scum player, there always is. From my point of view, it looks like preparation for a later push against me. For the record, here is the theory you tried to shoot down: > [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > he is essentially calling Tomba confirmed town. Unless the Prof is a wolf , he cannot know what side Tomba is on, so there would be no basis for calling him the “unofficial third mason”, unless the prof knows for sure that Tomba is town. > > He also should not know what alignment Bio is, yet seams to show no caution in giving helpful advice. Also indicative that he is pretty certain Bio is town. It’s a suggestion that **Prof. Pepperwinkle** is guilty of “perfect information syndrome”. If this were to be accepted as a clue by other players, it would have the side effect of implying that **Biotop** and I are Town. Your casting doubt on it thus fits the pattern of Scum preparing for a future push to lynch me. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/160 "2015-10-26T20:42:40Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I don’t know, I think stuff has happened. What are your thoughts on any of the people currently receiving votes? Where might your vote end up? You seem to be ‘here,’ but you sure don’t seem like you want to weigh in. Stuff has happened, but without concrete events (aka kills/lynches) it’s all too easy to overthink yourself into a hole. I wasn’t posting because I wasn’t sure I was right - but seeing as “not being sure” is one of the core tenants of Mafia . . . Previously I was leaning towards either the **Prof** or **IRConfused**. The \*\*Prof \*\*mainly due to jumping to Lynch the Lurker (a valid tactic) VERY early in the game, and \*\*IRConfused \*\*due to low post count (not that I can talk), the **Sario** throwaway vote, and general gut feeling. **Suburban Plankton** ’s comment about the cheese jokes being a possible tell - trying too hard to seem casual - struck me as discerning, putting **snfaulkner** and **Precambrian** into the mix. Still, for whatever reason my gut is telling me to go for **IRConfused**. So, tentatively . . . \*\*Vote IRConfused. \*\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585.md?page=9)