# Trouble in Paradise (Mafia Game Thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [October 23, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585 "2015-10-23T22:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 754
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585/754 "2015-11-30T19:29:14Z")
**DeadCat** , my job has been anything but “convenient.” I’m almost at the point of posting my work phone number and real name so that you guys could call the store and confirm my schedule with my boss. I have made no secret that the last week would be tough. I have generally posted late at night because that is when I get home, and I usually spend an hour or two with my wife before she goes to bed. My wife is also in the Grocery business as a Floral Manager at a different store than mine, and generally works much earlier in the day than I do. +++++ Wow. We’ve been played. And I especially have been played. I am now forced to choose between the two players I have trusted most of the game. On day 1 **Professor Pepperwinkle** tried to extend the hand of friendship, and I was rightly suspicious. Why should I trust anyone really? This is a game where people are trying to fool and manipulate? I thought I was so smart seeing through the **Professor** ’s gesture. This is only my second Mafia game, but no wolf was going to fool me that easily! But then someone found a way to do the same thing in a much more clever and insidious manner. This player acted all Townie while telling me how Townie I was. This player made a lot of helpful analysis. This player told me how great my analysis was. “Look how well I am doing in my second game,” I thought. Sigh. No pride now. But I followed along like an idiot. Sorry Town, I forgot that no one should ever to be completely trusted in Mafia. Stupid newbie me. Who is the final Scum player? Is it **DeadCat** , who has been the “victim” of Scum **Suburban Plankton** ’s suspicion case? Or is it **Hooker** , who posted the case against **Mahaloth** right after\*\* TexCat\*\* posted the same? (Forgive me if I don’t waste your time with an “or is it me, blah blah blah…” It didn’t impress me in\*\* DeadCat\*\*’s analysis of the possible wolf pairings yesterDay, and it doesn’t impress me when **Hooker** constantly reminds us that he understands we have to consider his possible wolfdom too. Any player making a case of how they might be wolf is just so much chatter. And ultimately, it means just about as much as me simply declaring that I am Town. Instead of telling you that you need to consider my possible scumminess , which I know you of course are already doing, I will simply make my defense later in this post.) Unless **DeadCat** and **Suburban Plankton** have been plotting a brilliant self-destructive end game, then the remaining wolf must be **Hooker** , it seems to me. I have spent all game defending **Hooker** , even after **TexCat** died saying we should lynch him. Why? Because even with a good case from **TexCat** , I couldn’t get beyond post #517. **Hooker** ’s case against **Mahaloth** came just after **TexCat** ’s. They were reading the same posts and coming to the same conclusions at the same time. How could that be if **Hooker** is Scum? They must both be Town. But I see rather too late that this logic doesn’t necessarily follow. Of course they are reading the same posts, what other posts are there? And of course they are coming to the same conclusions, because those are the conclusions a reasonable Town person would reach. And they are also the same results that a Wolf who had previously voted for two Town players might come up with as well if he wanted to look Town. Wolf **Hooker** could easily make the same posts as Town **Hooker**. Why did it take me so long to see this? I should have lat least been a bit wary, especially since **Hooker** was the one who drew my attention to the timely similarity first. **Texcat** must have understood it, because she voted for **Hooker** _after_ he made his post #517. **Hooker** ’s Post #517 is actually quite different than **TexCat** ’s #516 though. **TexCat** ’s case was a full-blown attack only on\*\* Mahaloth\*\*. Her case was to the point, well thought out and linked. **Hooker** ’s post #517 voices lengthy suspicions on **Dante G** and **snfaulkner** as well, only finishing up with a case against\*\* Mahaloth\*\*. **Hooker** actually does not vote for\*\* Mahaloth\*\* in Post #517, but waits nine more minutes. I originally took this to mean that he read\*\* TexCat\*\*’s post and then realized **Mahaloth** must be scum. But maybe he realized that **TexCat** ’s case was damning and now was the time to get credit for a wolf pelt or else be under the suspicion that would almost certainly come if he did not vote the right way. Of course the suspicion on **Hooker** still came despite his post and **Mahaloth** ’s confession. The suspicion came, in post#562 from\*\* TexCat\*\*. And like an idiot I let **Hooker** talk me out of believing her. I should have trusted the experienced player who was shown to be Town. Instead I let the accused player tell me what to think. Ugh. **TexCat** ’s second-to-last posting was to tell us to lynch **Hooker**. Her final posting was to say she thought **Dante G** was being set up. It looks like the \*\*Dante G \*\*setup is what happened after all. There’s the answer to Mystery #2. \*\*Hooker \*\*immediately voted for \*\*Dante G \*\*after the **PCM** night kill. I kept wondering why **Suburban Plankton** was not making an active case for his innocence yesterDay. I think the reason is that they were setting \*\*Hooker \*\*up to be” certain” Town if **SP** , the likely lynch, was actually lynched. This also explains why **Hooker** did not find it odd yesterday that a wolf was voting for **SP** while still being “supportive” of me. His role must have been to be on the “confirmed” Town side if **SP** got lynched. Of course they might have thought there was some chance that **DeadCat** might actually fall under suspicion. It was Win/Win however the voting went. And what are we to make of the question **Hooker** asked about the tie breaker last Night? If they really thought the Scum would automatically win by **Hooker** surviving until the last day with one other Town player, then that would certainly explain his vote on **Suburban Plankton**. **Hooker,** why didn’t you ask about the tie-breaker if you were unclear when I was explicitly posting about it several times yesterDay? You say I only mentioned it once, but I either stated it directly or implied it heavily in Posts #663, #710, #727, #729 and #733. Were you not focused on any of those posts? It was also right there in the rules when we started the game. _Were you not reading my posts at all yesterDay? And if not, why not?_ If you really did not understand the rules on the tie breaker, then I have my answer to Mystery #4. Why would a wolf vote for scum **SP** if the result would be at best a tie for them? Because the wolves somehow thought they would win with a tie. And **Hooker,** if you actually did understand the tie rule already, then the question is a fake one and only a wolf would have reason to ask a phony question. **Deadcat** said yesterday he would vote for me if **Suburban Plankton** flipped Alpha. He has done so toDay. **Deadcat** , I all I have is my record. Which is thus: * * * Day 1: I voted for Scum **Professor Pepperwinkle** , and stuck with it when I could have easily voted for someone else. If I am Scum, why did I try and throw my fellow wolf under the bus on the first Day? I didn’t have a string of mislynches to my name at the time. I didn’t badly need Town cred. **Hooker** and\*\* Astral\*\* had both stated they didn’t see anything wrong with **Prof. P** ’s postings. But I stuck with my vote and nearly got **PP** lynched. If I am Scum not only did I not make a vote on **Sario** for the mislynch, I actively worked to get **PP** lynched instead. None of us knew there was a vigilante. So why would I do that if Scum? I wouldn’t. Day 2: I voted for **WFTomba** and made a strong case against him. When I voted for **WFTomba** (Post #427), the vote was already 6 votes for **Tomba** , and a smattering of one votes for a few others. If I am Scum, why would I do that? My vote was not going to change anything. Why would I not instead vote for another player so that I would look good the next day for not having supported the mislynch? If I was Scum, the worst thing I could do would be to make a strong case against the player I knew was a mislynch when my case and post would not matter to the outcome in any way. Why would I do that if Scum? I wouldn’t. Day 3: Scum **Mahaloth** begins the Day by jumping all over me for PIS. This is the second time he has voted for me. If I am Scum… (and because\*\* Mahaloth\*\* is now known to have been scum)…why would **Mahaloth** do that? If I am Scum then I am throwing\*\* Professor Pepperwinkle **under the bus and Scum** Mahaloth **would be trying to do the same thing to me. There’s bussing of course, but the theory where we are all Scum attacking each other makes this theoretical wolf team so dysfunctional they should be on Jerry Springer, not playing together a game of Mafia. I did not weigh in at the time that all the postings were going on against Mahaloth because I had taken a promised Day off from the game with my wife. We visited Richmond. When I got up the next morning before work I skimmed the thread and noted that** Mahaloth\*\* was not trying very hard to defend himself. When I checked back in at lunch at work that Thursday, I found that **Mahaloth** had already confessed. I have no defense other than “not being around to get in a vote” before **Mahaloth** made his confession. I wasn’t there. I have a job and a family. Inconvenient for me, but the truth. And my job does not allow me to work on a computer with outside internet access. I only have my phone, which I can check surreptitiously in the accounting office (or rest room) or legally at lunch. (BTW **DeadCat** , I believe you are not American and may not understand the absolutely holy hell that happens at the Grocery Store on Thanksgiving week in the USA. But other players from this country will understand only too well. **DeadCat** , please google it and you will see I am not making this up. It’s worse than Christmas.) Note that Scum **Suburban Plankton** gives me grief in post #537 for being too Pro-Town. Why would he undercut me if the wolves were trying so hard to make Scum\*\* Biotop\*\* look Town? Imagine me, \*\*Suburban Plankton \*\*and **Mahaloth** as a Scum team on Day 3. Why would we interact like that? We wouldn’t. Day 4: I listed my suspicions of **IRConfused and Octarine for lurking before IRConfused** came out and said that he was Cop. Please note that I also voiced less suspicion on **IRConfused** and more on **Octarine** (Post #608). I said I thought **Octarine** was Scum. I had no way of knowing that **IRConfused** was the Cop when I reduced my suspicion on him. I simply noted that he had picked a particularly damaging post to attack\*\* Mahaloth\*\* on, so if they were both Scum then that was odd. Then hero \*\*IRConfused \*\*comes in with the news that he is Cop. My initial reaction is to join the other posters and lynch **Suburban Plankton** , but I unfortunately made the mistake of switching to **Octarine**. But I will argue it is only a mistake in hindsight. I read the “Play Mafia Better” thread several times. We have to punish lurkers by lynching them if the vote is tight. **Hooker** , who made the case against \*\*Suburban Plankton \*\*certainly left the opening by claiming his case was “weak.” I was also irked at **Octarine** a bit for not posting considering how much effort some of us were putting into the game. If the same situation were to arise again in another game, I think I would do the same thing. Lynching **Octarine** was the right decision in theory, even if the results in practice led to a mislynch. Others seemed to agree with me at the time. **DeadCat** , you even said **Octarine** lynched himself. Day 5: I think the questions I asked were valid. How could I just go add my name to a lynch line that included everyone else? I struggled with this and went back and forth. I tried to get **Dante** and\*\* snfaulkner\*\* to post to explain what was going on. I voted for **Suburban Plankton** out of frustration because I couldn’t figure out what was going on. I was sure the Alpha had been investigated. But it all made no sense. But now I think I see clearly. **SPlankton** was likely destined to go down, and one of the players I trusted was Scum leading the charge, and thus making himself look very good in the process. I don’t think that player is **DeadCat**. I think it is **HookerChemical**. I have tried all game to lay out my thoughts as open as I could. I never worried much whether I looked like Scum doing so. I ask the other Town players to look at my record in total. I have made mistakes. But I think my mistakes over the past two Days have very good explanations and are mistakes I believe any thinking Town player might make. My mistakes certainly came at the wrong time and I am sorry about that. But my record is much more than these mistakes and I stand behind it all. I hope I am not lynched toDay. I am not asking you to believe me that I am Town. I am asking you to look at my total record. Does it make any sense at all for me to be wolf? Then please look at **Hooker** and ask the same. And **Hooker** , if you are Town, then convince me that\*\* DeadCat\*\* is the wolf. ‘Cause right now I just don’t see it. If we lynch the right candidate toDay we don’t have to rely on coinflip luck tomorrow. Vote Hooker Chemical --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trouble-in-paradise-mafia-game-thread/735585)._