# Troy....Anticipation? Speculation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 29, 2004, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713 "2004-04-29T18:03:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/21 "2004-04-30T07:03:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve only seen one picture of the actress playing Helen and that was at the Troy website. Oh, right, nobody’s linked to [the trailer](http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/troy/trailer/) yet in this thread. Probably valuable for general discussion, not just Helen. Particularly noticeable at the scene “The wind is bringing them closer. They’re coming for me.”. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/22 "2004-04-30T07:29:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, right, nobody’s linked to [the trailer](http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/troy/trailer/) yet in this thread. Probably valuable for general discussion, not just Helen. Particularly noticeable at the scene “The wind is bringing them closer. They’re coming for me.”. I still can’t find much fault with the actress, her hair, or her makeup. I don’t think the story will be as good without the inclusions of the gods. I wonder if this version will make the Greeks out to be bad guys like the USA TV movie Helen of Troy did. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Melandry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Melandry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melandry)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/23 "2004-04-30T07:38:09Z")
This is just speculation and rumor, but I’ll spoiler box it just in case: The rumor I hear is that the end has been drastically altered so that Paris doesn’t die and Helen gets to stay with him in the end. So that would certainly make me think they’ve gone with a “true love good, legitimate husband bad” interpretation that tends to malign the Greeks. But let’s face it, even in Homer the Trojans (especially Hector) come off looking like better guys than the Greeks. So maybe anti-Greek is staying true to the source… ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/24 "2004-04-30T12:06:10Z")
> [@Melandry](#): > > But let’s face it, even in Homer the Trojans (especially Hector) come off looking like better guys than the Greeks. So maybe anti-Greek is staying true to the source… I’ll say. Despite the fact that the _Iliad_ is ostensibly about the “rage of Achilles”, just about everyone I’ve ever discussed it with has agreed that Hector is the hero of the piece. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/25 "2004-04-30T14:26:29Z")
I actually have a good feeling about this. It may just be because I’m still hyped by reading Dan Simmon’s \*Ilium[/] (which involves the Trojan War. And robots). The cast seems fine to me, but then, I think Pitt is a pretty good actor, and Bloom _does_ have the capablity t make young women swoon, which is Paris’s prime attribute. The supporting cast, to my mind, is incomparable. BTW, the cast lists the character of Thetis, so there may be some divine presence after all. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/26 "2004-04-30T14:42:36Z")
I read a review of the script in “aint it cool news” which has very positive things to say about it. Some flaws are mentioned (no or very little mention of gods, too much plot for a 175 page script - yikes, 3 hr movie) but all in all the author thinks this is a highly entertaining script. As for altering the book? I’ve never cared whether or not the writer/director stays faithful to the source material. Wolfgang Peterson (who I like) has been left with the task of making a good movie. If he and the writers seem to think that by changing some details they make a better movie, what do I care - especially if I enjoyed myself watching it. As for my expectations, I don’t really expect it to change my life in any major way but I do expect to enjoy myself for three hours judging by the shots I’ve seen in the trailer, the actors, the director, and the fact that Ancient Greece is involved. The movie I’m REALLY looking forward to is Alexander by Oliver Stone…[rubs hands together]. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/27 "2004-04-30T16:11:43Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > They also list a Patroclus; it’ll be interesting to see what they do with the Achilles-Patroclus relationship. Having studied the \*Iliad \* in school that is one of the things that I’m interested in as well. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/28 "2004-04-30T18:04:35Z")
Oh, you guys are focussing on the side issues. The important things are: 1. Will they do a good job of binding and gagging Helen when they kidnap her? 2. Will there be a lot of half-naked slavegirls serving their warrior masters in chains? the rest is, like, ancient history. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/29 "2004-04-30T18:43:02Z")
[QUOTE=Odinoneeye] [History of the World] Chemist! Chemist! Have you seen a pack of Trojans? Just sold my last pack [/History of the World] [QUOTE] It’s been a while, but I believe the correct phrase is “:snaps fingers: Just ran out!” ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/30 "2004-04-30T19:04:27Z")
After reading this thread, something just occurred to me. It’s something I have never known. Where is Troy? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/31 "2004-04-30T19:21:42Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > Where is Troy? It’s in what’s now the Asian part of Turkey, near the modern town of Intepe. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/32 "2004-04-30T19:26:11Z")
> [@Odinoneeye](#): > > [History of the World] > Chemist! Chemist! Have you seen a pack of Trojans? > > Just sold my last pack > [/History of the World] > > I jus tknow I’m gonna think this all through the movie. [Ned Flanders]“A wooden horse? Wow! From now on, whenever anyone gets wood, they’ll think of Trojans!”[/Ned Flanders] ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/33 "2004-04-30T20:04:38Z")
One thing that bugs me. I haven’t read the Illiad, but doesn’t Achillies die about 1/2 way through? If so, doesn’t that somewhat negate the point of casting Brad Pit? Or am I wrong here? ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/34 "2004-04-30T20:11:41Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > Where is Troy? [Here’s](http://www.webwinds.com/thalassa/ancgreecemap.htm) a map of the area. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/35 "2004-04-30T20:34:23Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > One thing that bugs me. > > I haven’t read the Illiad, but doesn’t Achillies die about 1/2 way through? If so, doesn’t that somewhat negate the point of casting Brad Pit? > > Or am I wrong here? No, Achilles does not die in the _Iliad_. He reveals that he has been given a choice between two fates: to live long and die in obscurity, or to live a brief but glorious life. He knows that returning to the fight will most likely bring about his death, but is driven by rage after Patroklos’ death. So you know that he _will_ die soon, but his actual death does not occur in the _Iliad_. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/36 "2004-04-30T20:35:32Z")
Dammit. Preview is my friend, despite the fact that I neglect it so. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/37 "2004-04-30T20:49:44Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > No, Achilles does not die in the _Iliad_. He reveals that he has been given a choice between two fates: to live long and die in obscurity, or to live a brief but glorious life. He knows that returning to the fight will most likely bring about his death, but is driven by rage after Patroklos’ death. So you know that he _will_ die soon, but his actual death does not occur in the _Iliad_. If I remember correctly, The Iliad ends with Hector´s funerals. The final assault of Troy is told in the “Odisea” (can’t find the english name, google isn’t my friend. I haven’t seen the trailer but I simply assume they wouldn’t leave the trojan horse scene out of a movie of the Trojan War. So either Aquiles is killed or they changed the story.- ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/38 "2004-04-30T21:47:05Z")
Well, I did see a little thing on _E_ the other day where they were filming Brad coming down the rope out of the Trojan Horse, so I have a feeling there’s quite a bit of poetic license taken in this film. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/39 "2004-05-01T01:34:54Z")
I wanna see them continue with Sean Bean in the sequel. I anticipate it will be called “Boat.” ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713/40 "2004-05-02T04:31:35Z")
As a classicist, I am very worried that they have left out the gods, and [if **Melandry** ’s spoilers are true] changed the ending drastically. Yikes! I’m not so sure that one should fall for the story that Helen was really “in love” with Paris anyhow. But all modern interpretations seem to think so. As a lover of male eye-candy, I am pleased, and hopeful that they will in fact do something about the Achilles/Patroclus relationship (does anyone have a picture of the guy playing Patroclus?). Brad Pitt, though, just doesn’t seem the right mix of masculine bravado, prowess in battle, and whiny crybaby (“Mommy, they took my whore away! Waaa!”). I have to say from the trailer that the battle scenes look really cool. Daphne Black [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troy-anticipation-speculation/242713.md?page=3)