# Truck kills dozens of people in Nice, France on Bastille Day **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 14, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928 "2016-07-14T21:55:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/81 "2016-07-15T12:21:41Z")
\ Found out about this yesterday through a Facebook “safety report.” I have a cousin who’s studying in France and was there hours before it happened. What’s the next step? Nuke the ME? Kick all Muslims out of [whichever country]? Hug eachother and make up? Ignore it and go on with our lives? Discrimination and distrust of people who are different has caused humanity to be backed into a corner. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/82 "2016-07-15T12:26:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Ugh. Horrible. > > It’s somehow worse when an attack takes place somewhere you’ve been before, isn’t it? Believe me, I speak from extensive experience. I spent a lovely week in Nice 20 years ago this summer during my backpacking tour of Europe, and spend a lot of time on that very promenade and the beaches it overlooks, soaking in some sun and observing the local fauna. The thought of so much death right at that spot is sickening. Yeah, the Orlando shooting would have hit a lot harder to me if it would have been at a venue that I had been to, or even any venue _downtown_ downtown, as opposed to around a mile from metro downtown at a venue that I had only even driven past a couple times. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/83 "2016-07-15T12:26:42Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > It’s only irrelevant when you are engaged in battle with him. It’s absolutely relevant afterward. I have no doubt that you’d ask yourself “Why did this man target ME?” afterward. Not just to quench morbid curiosity, but because you’d want to know if the attack was an isolated event, or if you should expect, and thus prepare for, another attack. That’s a fair point, but I’m not sure it was the one I was replying to. I’m saying, imagine we consider all the relevant factors and decide a given course of action is the one that’s in our best interests – and imagine someone then rushes in to breathlessly tell us whether the enemies we’re planning to attack _want_ us to attack. Should that piece of information matter? Sure, I want psychological insights if you can tell me how to anticipate what they’re going to do; or how to intimidate them, if that’s easier than simply killing them; or whatever – but the mere fact that _they_ happen to want what we _also_ want? Should we factor that in? Is it relevant to our decision-making process? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/84 "2016-07-15T12:27:22Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Who would the combatants be? there is no civil war, read JoseB for actual information. The bizarre conspiracy sites are not your good source > [@aceplace57](#): > > They are paying a high price for many years of immigration. The Ayatollah Khomeini and other Iranian clerics lived there in exile before the Iranian revolution. That’s lead to France having a significant radical Muslim population. Along with moderate Muslims. > [@aceplace57](#): > > … There is a very diverse Muslim population in France. From many different regions. . Please try to refrain from posting ignorant nonsense on things it is clear you know nothing about. The passage of Shia Iranians refugees have not one thing to do with the current French challenges of its sunni Maleki Maghrebine origin Muslim populations. The overwhelming majority of the Muslims in France are the Maghrebine origin. > [@JoseB](#): > > It is much more complex than “many years of immigration”. To begin with, many (if not most) of the disaffected individuals getting radicalized are second- or third-generation descendants of original immigrants. Born and raised in France, but never really seen or treated as “Real French”. Many live in the belts of rather decayed towns that circle the big cities, without real prospects for advancement in life, often seen with suspicion and perceived as “not really French” in spite of their families having been established in France for 50 years or more (many of those immigrants came to France in waves after the decolonization of the 1960’s, especially after Algeria became independent. I understand that, ironically, many of those who went to France did so because they were pro-French and felt they had no place in the newly independent countries). > > The situation was allowed to fester for too long, and now there will not be quick or easy solutions. This is compounded with the rest of the population looking at those of Muslim or Arab extraction with increasing suspicion, which won’t help the younger ones find better options in life. A nasty little vicious circle. > > This will go on until, with time, Daesh and their ilk dissolve with the passage of time, like the violent anarchists from the end of the 19th century ceased to be. It will take years and there will be lots of death and bloodshed in the meantime, though. > > There are not a few bitter and disaffected young people in France who turn to radical Islam not so much out of a feeling that it is the “right” religion but out of resentment and as a way to “strike back” against those that they perceive (rightly or wrongly) as the ones responsible for their troubles (and, heck, many of them were not religious to begin with…). They are actually more like “patsies” that are “conscripted” by extremists that use them basically as cannon fodder for their own nefarious purposes. > > All in all it is sad and heartbreaking. This kind of actions is inexcusable, and those who perpetrate them are rightly reviled. But the recruiters are even more vile, for they prey on vulnerable people and twist them, making them into murderers. Thank you for a good summary and for those who know the history the reference to the late 19 c early 20 c anarchist-left radical terrorists, also of frequently the disaffected 2nd generation backgrounds is a very solid one. There is really two profiles we can make of these 1: the petty criminal convert looking for the meaning and the purpose - and a redemption. The conversion from non practicing or another religion 2: the young idealist who may otherwise have a future, but in radicalism finds some transformative ideology the solution for the France is at once the addressing of the discrimination in the job markets that impacts the 2nd and the 3rd generations and the police surveillience of the criminal salafiste promotion of the criminal takfiri ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/85 "2016-07-15T12:27:51Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Who would the combatants be? Probably why I skipped the article . * * * EDIT… it wasn’t CNN. Sorry. > **['France on brink of CIVIL WAR' sparked by migrant sex attacks](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/688821/Patrick-Calvar-intelligence-chief-warns-France-on-brink-of-civil-war-migrant-sex-attacks)** > > FRANCE is on the verge of civil war that could be sparked by the mass sexual assault of women by migrants, according to the country's head of intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/86 "2016-07-15T12:55:30Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > That’s a fair point, but I’m not sure it was the one I was replying to. > > I’m saying, imagine we consider all the relevant factors and decide a given course of action is the one that’s in our best interests – and imagine someone then rushes in to breathlessly tell us whether the enemies we’re planning to attack _want_ us to attack. Should that piece of information matter? > > Sure, I want psychological insights if you can tell me how to anticipate what they’re going to do; or how to intimidate them, if that’s easier than simply killing them; or whatever – but the mere fact that _they_ happen to want what we _also_ want? Should we factor that in? Is it relevant to our decision-making process? Well, at the very least, that should give you pause – _“Wait… We are getting ready to attack, and they **want** us to attack them right now? Are they laying a trap for us, or what?”_ That is something that you should at least take into consideration. If we attack and they **want** it, are they counting on something that we might not have thought of? Not that you should abort your plans of attack just because of that, but definitely give a second look to the situation with fresh eyes, taking into account this new information. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/87 "2016-07-15T14:00:38Z")
Second time now that there’s been a major terrorist attack on ground I’ve walked. (I know it hardly makes me unique, but there is something eerie about having stood where there is now blood and debris and horror.) Had dinner at Top of the World on 31 Aug 2001. Walked the Promenade des Anglais in 2008 only because we took the train over from Villefranche so I could find a trivial landmark. Had gelato and watched the ocean right in the middle of the attack mile. I’d rather not acquire any more such post-memories, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/88 "2016-07-15T15:37:12Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > There is really two profiles we can make of these > 1: the petty criminal convert looking for the meaning and the purpose - and a redemption. The conversion from non practicing or another religion > 2: the young idealist who may otherwise have a future, but in radicalism finds some transformative ideology The first point may to be the case here. The Daily Mail (not the best source I know) has a story that has his cousin saying that he was not a practising Muslim in any way, ate pork, drank, never went to worship etc. > **[EXCLUSIVE: Truck terrorist 'beat his wife and NEVER went to mosque'](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691895/He-drank-alcohol-ate-pork-took-drugs-NOT-Muslim-Truck-terrorist-Mohamed-Lahouaiej-Bouhlel-s-cousin-reveals-unlikely-jihadist-beat-wife-NEVER-went-mosque.html)** > > Truck terrorist Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel beat his wife and never went to the mosque, a family friend of his estranged wife told MailOnline. The father-of-three also ate pork, drank alcohol and took drugs. Again I know the DM is not the best but it has an air of truthiness about it. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/89 "2016-07-15T16:37:40Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Second time now that there’s been a major terrorist attack on ground I’ve walked. (I know it hardly makes me unique, but there is something eerie about having stood where there is now blood and debris and horror.) > > Had dinner at Top of the World on 31 Aug 2001. > > Walked the Promenade des Anglais in 2008 only because we took the train over from Villefranche so I could find a trivial landmark. Had gelato and watched the ocean right in the middle of the attack mile. > > I’d rather not acquire any more such post-memories, thank you. I gave a lesson on Nice and the promenade des Anglais just this past March. I agree there’s something eerie about this. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/90 "2016-07-15T19:35:35Z")
It appears that the rodeo clown who committed this crime was not a Radical Islamic Extremist but rather someone who was off his meds. Queue up major backpedaling by “pundits”. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/91 "2016-07-15T19:46:27Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > It appears that the rodeo clown who committed this crime was not a Radical Islamic Extremist but rather someone who was off his meds. Queue up major backpedaling by “pundits”. Cite? There was a similar attack in Dijon which was both an Islamic terrorist attack and committed by someone with a history of mental illness, but the only similar claim I’ve seen so far regarding this attack was merely speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/92 "2016-07-15T19:47:24Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > The first point may to be the case here. The Daily Mail (not the best source I know) has a story that has his cousin saying that he was not a practising Muslim in any way, ate pork, drank, never went to worship etc. > > [Nice terrorist's cousin reveals he is an ‘unlikely jihadist’ who flouted every rule of Islam | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691895/He-drank-alcohol-ate-pork-took-drugs-NOT-Muslim-Truck-terrorist-Mohamed-Lahouaiej-Bouhlel-s-cousin-reveals-unlikely-jihadist-beat-wife-NEVER-went-mosque.html) > > Again I know the DM is not the best but it has an air of truthiness about it. What a crappy article. It’s just a thin excuse for a bunch of photos. I’m willing to believe that he was just a nut. But I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that he was a recent convert. The description they give of a out-of-work delivery driver and pot-head doesn’t quite mesh with a truck full of hand grenades. Those seem like the sort of thing that you need some connections to get. I guess we’ll see. If he was working on his own, I find it amusing (for a horrified level of amusement) that he was probably more capable of enacting a crime of terror than most official, trained terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/93 "2016-07-15T21:59:32Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The description they give of a out-of-work delivery driver and pot-head doesn’t quite mesh with a truck full of hand grenades. There were no hand grenades. the reefer truck had six empty pallets and a bicycellete in its cargo, and he had only a russian machine mini gun that given it is Nice can without doubt be bought from the mafia. These are the confirmed facts of from the actual inquiry. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/94 "2016-07-15T22:14:25Z")
Le monde: Des armes en plastique et une grenade dite “inactive” ont été retrouvées dans le camion ; “Plastic guns and a grenade said to be inactive were found in the truck.” Other descriptions are specific to the plastic Kalashnikovs - toys. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/95 "2016-07-15T22:14:59Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Well, at the very least, that should give you pause – _“Wait… We are getting ready to attack, and they **want** us to attack them right now? Are they laying a trap for us, or what?”_ > > That is something that you should at least take into consideration. If we attack and they **want** it, are they counting on something that we might not have thought of? > > Not that you should abort your plans of attack just because of that, but definitely give a second look to the situation with fresh eyes, taking into account this new information. This attitude is the problem because it is still, “We’ll fight as long as no innocent gets hurt. If innocents get hurt we will send in our citizens with no bullets for their weapons and let politicians determine the rules of conduct, you know, how tight to put on their handcuff because we don’t care if they die.” What has been the track record of nations, countries, etc. that even after the other side is shooting, refuse to fight as they wait for new, better intel? To survive, at some point you must fight, not wait. You have to make the call and your son, father, other just died while you are waiting for new intel. Are you so civilized that you would rather die and all others should die with you because you are worried what a history book written by your opponents is going to say about you? Or the next intel report, unchecked & unstuddied is going to save the day? We are so doomed. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/96 "2016-07-15T22:23:30Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Le monde: > Des armes en plastique et une grenade dite “inactive” ont été retrouvées dans le camion ; > “Plastic guns and a grenade said to be inactive were found in the truck.” > Other descriptions are specific to the plastic Kalashnikovs - toys. > [@](#): > > Une seule arme réelle et d’autres factices ont été retrouvées dans le camion, selon le procureur de Paris François Molins : > > un pistolet calibre 7.65 avec un chargeur, des cartouches percutées et non percutées ; > un pistolet factice ; > deux répliques de fusils d’assaut ; > une grenade percée factice. > > En savoir plus sur [http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/live/2016/07/15/en-direct-plusieurs-morts-a-nice-apres-qu-un-camion-a-fonce-sur-la-foule\_4969598\_1653578.html#iqg8LfZTHF1FtRrr.99](http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/live/2016/07/15/en-direct-plusieurs-morts-a-nice-apres-qu-un-camion-a-fonce-sur-la-foule_4969598_1653578.html#iqg8LfZTHF1FtRrr.99) Yes, you are “so doomed” by some sad people who commit terror by renting a truck and have plastic guns. Obviously the manly american Cowboy thing is to return to the old traditions to the Indian days and kill the brown people indiscriminately while proclaiming how more civilized you are. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/97 "2016-07-15T22:36:26Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Le monde: > Des armes en plastique et une grenade dite “inactive” ont été retrouvées dans le camion ; > “Plastic guns and a grenade said to be inactive were found in the truck.” > Other descriptions are specific to the plastic Kalashnikovs - toys. The reports I’ve read seem to indicate he fired a real gun at real police to kick this whole thing off. Maybe Le monde has a better handle on things, but if so it hasn’t filtered out. Any word on the supposed explosives in the truck? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/98 "2016-07-15T22:51:02Z")
That is there in the report. He had one real gun. the russian model machine pistolet, a typical mafia underground weapon. the rest were plastic fakes. The same report I already stated above, the cargo of the truck: a bicycle and six empty pallets. The bombs, guns reports are bullshitting rumors like the story of the many men getting out of the truck and shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/99 "2016-07-15T23:17:56Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Yes, you are “so doomed” by some sad people who commit terror by renting a truck and have plastic guns. It seems 84 people were doomed by that. Granted the plastic/toy guns were ridiculous, but the truck really was a weapon last night. I wouldn’t say we’re “doomed” but it’s a problem that’s not going away and is world-wide. > [@](#): > > Obviously the manly american Cowboy thing is to return to the old traditions to the Indian days and kill the brown people indiscriminately while proclaiming how more civilized you are. Ramira, I understand you’re emotional right now, with some good reason, but could you please refrain from tarring all Americans with the same brush? Quite a few of us have opposed the military “adventures” of the past decade and a half (if not longer) and are seeking better solutions than guns and bombs. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928/100 "2016-07-15T23:29:38Z")
I refer to this in those comments > [@GusNSpot](#): > > This attitude is the problem because it is still, “We’ll fight as long as no innocent gets hurt. If innocents get hurt we will send in our citizens with no bullets for their weapons and let politicians determine the rules of conduct, you know, how tight to put on their handcuff because we don’t care if they die.”… > We are so doomed. I am not refering to all Americans but this type of comment [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truck-kills-dozens-of-people-in-nice-france-on-bastille-day/759928.md?page=6)