# Trudeau: Warplane shot down object over northern Canada \[2/11/2023\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 11, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637 "2023-02-11T22:53:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/21 "2023-02-12T06:39:23Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > the headline really should have said that they shot down a UFO. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > “UFO” is no longer a simple acronym, in my opinion. It now has such firm links to little green men and anal probing, that it should only be used in news articles in that context. Maybe we can call them PIOs, for “pre” identified objects, on the assumption that we don’t know what it is yet but we will after we shoot it down and pick through the debris. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/22 "2023-02-12T06:48:22Z")
It does make sense, though. The American jet had better air-to-air capability, but since this was Canadian airspace, it couldn’t proceed without the Canadian PM’s blessing/orders. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/23 "2023-02-12T07:09:20Z")
Hey, China, how many more targets do we have to hit to get a kewpie doll? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/24 "2023-02-12T07:11:44Z")
You know, this does make me wonder some sovereignty stuff. I know NORAD is already a longstanding US-Canada practice, so this is nothing in general. But if, say, some dangerous UFO was on the Mexican side of the US-Mexico border, and Mexico had nothing to intercept it with, could/would the Mexican government “invite” American fighter jets to cross the border (if they were already nearby and airborne,) and ask/order it to shoot it down (with the White House okaying it of course)? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/25 "2023-02-12T12:56:34Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Continuing the tradition of money well spent. > > Things a spy balloon could discover in Canada: Of course, everyone who grew up in Canada during the Cold War knows that we’re a pretty good route into the United States for things travelling over or near the North Pole. The Balloon shot down earlier this week did just that, in fact, travelling across a big part of Canada before entering the Continental US. I suspect whoever is sending these things is, in part, testing US ability and willingness to shoot them down over places like Canada. Wait and see if we get a report like this from over Mexico, the Atlantic or Pacific Oceans. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/26 "2023-02-12T13:57:35Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > A tech multinational I once worked for – a very ethical company with nothing to hide but very conscious of its image and also the protection of its many proprietary and confidential technologies – had a strict rule that you were NOT – ever – to speak to the media unless specifically authorized. A museum I worked for had the same rule, and we didn’t even have any proprietary technologies. If anyone from the media asked us anything, we were supposed to tell them nothing except contact information for the VP of Public Relations. The assumption was that the media was always out to create a story, even if there wasn’t one in actuality, and that anything said by anyone who wasn’t a trained professional at dealing with the media could be twisted into a “story” that was potentially very unfavorable to us. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/27 "2023-02-12T14:49:21Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Anything our government shares with us in public also tells the enemy how much we know. Government officials have been making statements to let us know how much they know — without telling it to us. That’s what Major Gallant was doing. Here is more of that from the Washington Post: [ “All of the objects are similar in certain ways and then dramatically different in certain ways. What we don’t yet understand is what sorts of technology are in there,” the official said. “Really capable technology can be very small and portable. So the size doesn’t tell us a whole lot.” The official said the current U.S. assessment is the objects are not military threats. ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/11/military-shootdown-alaska-flying-object/) As for enemies, It may be pointless to deny that Russia is an enemy, given our large effort to mass-produce arms currently being used daily to kill Russians. But our aim should be to not make other enemies. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/28 "2023-02-12T15:01:03Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > But our aim should be to not make other enemies. True. Would that all other nations abided by that same logic. ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/29 "2023-02-12T15:28:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Presumably, the American pilot would not have fired if Canada didn’t want him to, so in effect, the order did have to come from Trudeau. _An_ order must have come from Trudeau - but it applied to the RCAF. He has no authority to issue orders to US pilots, and they are certainly not allowed to act upon orders issued outside their own chain of command (at the top of which sits POTUS). ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/30 "2023-02-12T15:32:28Z")
This was a NORAD operation, which means that the Canadian military is indeed in the chain of command for certain Americans. The Deputy Commander of NORAD is always Canadian. > **[LIEUTENANT-GENERAL ALAIN PELLETIER, RCAF](https://www.norad.mil/Leadership/Article-View/Article/2289346/lieutenant-general-alain-pelletier-rcaf/)** > > Lieutenant-General Alain Pelletier is the Deputy Commander North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), Peterson Air Force Base, Colorado Springs, CO.In 1978, Lieutenant-General Alain Pelletier ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/31 "2023-02-12T15:37:50Z")
Why the Hell are we wasting missiles on these things? They’re _balloons_, for gosh sakes! A quick burst of cannon fire would work fine. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/32 "2023-02-12T15:40:29Z")
Well, maybe just really big darts! ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/33 "2023-02-12T15:40:50Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > This was a NORAD operation, which means that the Canadian military is indeed in the chain of command for certain Americans. The Deputy Commander of NORAD is always Canadian. Also, unlike the President, the Prime Minister isn’t actually considered to be in the chain of command of the military. He didn’t “order” a shoot down so much as give approval for the shoot down. The dynamic in Canada is very different than in the US (citation: the clusterfuck that was the Convoy here in Ottawa last year. The reason that went on for so long was because the civilian leadership doesn’t actually have the power to order any particular actions be taken by the military or police, and the military and police were refusing to take any actions on their own authority.) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/34 "2023-02-12T15:44:24Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > They’re _balloons_, for gosh sakes! > A quick burst of cannon fire would work fine. Except that doesn’t actually work fine. > **[The time a wayward Canadian balloon caused an international stir — and...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/weather-balloon-canada-china-1.6737831)** > > China isn't the only country to face questions about a curious balloon. Back in 1998, a giant runaway weather balloon proved to be an international headache for Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/35 "2023-02-12T15:58:27Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I hope it is promptly leaked to the New York Times or Washington Post. How about the New York Post or Washington Times? > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Try to subvert our industry by changing it to a system of lucrative duopolies. Wait… While trying to learn how telecom companies are able to keep charges so damn high. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/36 "2023-02-12T17:18:43Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > I hope it is promptly leaked to the New York Times or Washington Post. > > How about the New York Post or Washington Times? Of the four publications mentioned above, I only subscribe to the first two. As for the others, I don’t read them enough for a fair critique. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/37 "2023-02-12T17:21:09Z")
Missiles have a limited shelf life (I believe some are 25 years.) If a Sidewinder is at the point where it’s about to expire anyway, might as well fire it. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/38 "2023-02-12T18:18:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > had a strict rule that you were NOT – ever – to speak to the media unless specifically authorized. Which I sometimes was, on specific subject matters. But otherwise, the mandatory action when approached by media was to refer them to Public Relations and say absolutely nothing else. +3 seems like “standard procedure” … i worked for multinationals in food-business, to the same rules … Don’t talk unless authorized - and refer them to PR. > [@Velocity](#): > > could/would the Mexican government “invite” American fighter jets to cross the border (if they were already nearby and airborne,) and ask/order it to shoot it down (with the White House okaying it of course)? of course - this is completely bi-lateral material… ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/39 "2023-02-12T18:56:18Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Why the Hell are we wasting missiles on these things? > They’re _balloons_, for gosh sakes! > A quick burst of cannon fire would work fine. This former fighter pilot does not think guns would have been a good option: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/9WfUXU9N7YA/maxresdefault.jpg "The FIRST F-22 Air to Air Kill is a Chinese Spy Balloon?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WfUXU9N7YA) TLDR version: the missile ensures the balloon comes down right then and right there. Bullet holes could not guarantee the same. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637/40 "2023-02-12T19:11:22Z")
Yes, they wanted the wreckage to fall in US waters (12 mile zone of national sovereignty) not the fuzzier “economic interest” zone. A missile does that. Bullets don’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trudeau-warplane-shot-down-object-over-northern-canada-2-11-2023/979637.md?page=3)