### Author:  [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/21 "2013-10-10T15:09:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> Look, you’ve all got the wrong idea about this dominion-over-animals thing. It does not mean we get to **eat** them. It only means we get to **fuck** them.
You wouldn’t be Welsh, by any chance, now would you?
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/22 "2013-10-10T15:33:48Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#):
>
> God commanded the animals to get along in the ark; it was a special occasion. They not only didn’t attack the humans, they didn’t attack each other as is there nature. Do you really think that lions and lambs got along before the flood?
That is what the Bible says happened. Supposedly all creatures were originally vegetarian: _Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground - everything that has the breath of life in it - I give every green plant for food.” And it was so._
This changed after the flood: _Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.”_
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### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/23 "2013-10-10T20:30:31Z")
> [@Mijin](#):
>
> Firstly, not to threadshit, but “Hey true believers, explain \” threads are really common here and never go anywhere.
Correct. Anyone who asks a question like the one in the OP does not understand the outlines of Christian thought. Christians do not believe that we were created to be cosmic Roger Eberts lobbing criticisms at various flaws in creation.
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### Author:  [@ruben4ruben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruben4ruben)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/24 "2013-10-10T21:25:32Z")
As Simster and Little Nemo pointed out before; things changed after the flood. Before the flood man was vegetarian. (Some (non-bible) religions believe the natural state is to be vegetarian)
We can imagine that post-flood there also were no readily available crops or fruit for the survivors.
But OP, if you really wanna know/understand these kind of things the best thing to do is simply read the Bible. The answers are often found by reading more than just a verse or a single chapter.
You don’t have to be a _true believer_ to do that.
From a practical perspective i think we and the animals should be glad God put a \*dread \*or fear of man into most animals. I think many more species would have been extinct ages ago if animals were trusting or docile like before the flood.
Just Look at how animals are being treated today in our _enlightened_ advanced age.
The bible promises in various verses that after God’s Day of Judgement the whole planet will be peaceful and not just between humans but also between animals. It says wolves and lambs, and other _natural_ enemies will lay down and graze together: Isaiah 11:6-9 and 65:25 It also says something about a child (children) will be leader over them. (dominion)
I guess that means we will all be vegetarians. (again)
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### Author:  [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/25 "2013-10-11T02:54:23Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Its not metaphor for me, although I do hold to evolution and an old earth.
Not a metaphor but you are an old earth evolutionist? How’s that work?
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### Author:  [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/26 "2013-10-11T03:01:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> That is what the Bible says happened. Supposedly all creatures were originally vegetarian: \*
T-Rex was a vegetarian?
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### Author:  [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/27 "2013-10-11T03:04:57Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#):
>
> As Simster and Little Nemo pointed out before; things changed after the flood. Before the flood man was vegetarian.
> [@](#):
>
> I guess that means we will all be vegetarians. (again)
Does that mean that the preferred state of man is vegetarian? Why do so few Christians make the effort in the meantime?
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/28 "2013-10-11T03:19:40Z")
> [@Kable](#):
>
> T-Rex was a vegetarian?
Yes, that’s what many creationists claim.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/29 "2013-10-11T03:20:27Z")
> [@Latro](#):
>
> You wouldn’t be Welsh, by any chance, now would you?
Not exactly, but I can magnificently sing “Men of Harlech” and fuck a sheep at the same time. What more is required?!
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/30 "2013-10-11T03:24:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> Not exactly, but I can magnificently sing “Men of Harlech” and fuck a sheep at the same time. What more is required?!
Well, actually, I know what more is required: Mastery of the ancient Welsh martial art of [Llap-Goch](http://ppsa.com/gif/LLAP01.gif)!
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/31 "2013-10-11T03:58:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> Yes, that’s what many creationists claim.
Old Gary Larson Far Side cartoon: On the deck of the Ark, in a crowd of animals looking sheepish (all of them, not just the sheep), Noah is standing with his hands on his hips and glaring.
Caption: “Well, so much for the unicorns! From now on, all carnivores will be confined to “C” Deck!”
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/32 "2013-10-11T05:46:37Z")
> [@Kable](#):
>
> Not a metaphor but you are an old earth evolutionist? How’s that work?
I think the account of Adam and Original Sin happened as described while I still think God used evolution to bring the species about as they’re to-day.
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### Author:  [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/33 "2013-10-11T13:17:25Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> I think the account of Adam and Original Sin happened as described while I still think God used evolution to bring the species about as they’re to-day.
You think T-rex really was a vegetarian, there was a real talking snake, and a real global flood? Adam’s father wasn’t monkeyish? Why doubt 6 day creation and a young earth then?
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/34 "2013-10-11T13:36:53Z")
> [@pkbites](#):
>
> Cite? Witnessing?
That’s always what I was taught in Sunday School. Before the Fall, Man had it nice & soft; all animals would obey Adam at least (and perhaps Eve as well), there was no need to cultivate food because the Garden of Eden was so lush with fruit, and there were no carnivores. After the Fall, Man was in rebellion and was forced to leave the Garden and work for his keep, and the animals became resistant to his will (save dogs and to a limited degree cats, obviously); in addition, many animals became carnivorous. After the Carpenter returns, the world will revert to its pre-Fall state; no one will have to work for a living, and the lion will lie down with the lamb without the lamb saying “Oh Shit!”
This is not how Pallas Athena would have ordered mattters of course, but I am not responsible for Xtian myths.
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### Author:  [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/35 "2013-10-11T15:32:40Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#):
>
> As Simster and Little Nemo pointed out before; things changed after the flood. Before the flood man was vegetarian. (Some (non-bible) religions believe the natural state is to be vegetarian)
WTF? Remember Cain and Abel? God preferred Abel’s burnt meat offering over Cain’s grain offering so much that Cain killed Abel in jealous rage. So God wasn’t a vegetarian; he preferred meat. If we were created in God’s image then we must prefer meat as well. Are you saying that when Abel was murdered the carnivore branch of mankind died out? That’s a pretty far reach to go to justify vegetarianism in a biblical context.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/36 "2013-10-11T15:52:30Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#):
>
> WTF? Remember Cain and Abel? God preferred Abel’s burnt meat offering over Cain’s grain offering so much that Cain killed Abel in jealous rage. So God wasn’t a vegetarian; he preferred meat. If we were created in God’s image then we must prefer meat as well. Are you saying that when Abel was murdered the carnivore branch of mankind died out? That’s a pretty far reach to go to justify vegetarianism in a biblical context.
The Bible spoke of animals being sacrificed to God. That doesn’t mean people were eating animals.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/37 "2013-10-11T16:09:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> The Bible spoke of animals being sacrificed to God. That doesn’t mean people were eating animals.
I doubt Abel was herding the sheep for their benefit. And I doubt he needed THAT much wool.
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### Author:  [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/38 "2013-10-11T16:11:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> I doubt Abel was herding the sheep for their benefit. And I doubt he needed THAT much wool.
Since no women were present/mentioned (other than Eve/Mom) - its kinda hard to fault the guy for his harem.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/39 "2013-10-11T16:18:23Z")
> [@simster](#):
>
> Since no women were present/mentioned (other than Eve/Mom) - its kinda hard to fault the guy for his harem.
[humorless pedant]
It’s always implicit in Biblical geneaologies and stories that there were women present who simply are not named. In that particular Bronze Age culture (as opposed to all the other BA cultures, hah), women were not terribly important, and are mentioned only when they are an aberration. Consider the geneaology of Christ that begins Matthew, for instance. As I recall it, the only woman named is Rahab, who was noteworthy because she wasn’t a Hebrew, but that doesn’t mean the other men on the list were conceived phallo-parthenogenetically.
[/humorless pedant]
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/40 "2013-10-11T16:24:54Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> [humorless pedant]
>
> It’s always implicit in Biblical geneaologies and stories that there were women present who simply are not named. In that particular Bronze Age culture (as opposed to all the other BA cultures, hah), women were not terribly important, and are mentioned only when they are an aberration. Consider the geneaology of Christ that begins Matthew, for instance. As I recall it, the only woman named is Rahab, who was noteworthy because she wasn’t a Hebrew, but that doesn’t mean the other men on the list were conceived phallo-parthenogenetically.
>
> [/humorless pedant]
_Even more humorless pedant_
The genealogy also mentions Tamar, Ruth, and the “wife of Uriah”, as well as Mary.
Regards,
Shodan
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