### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/41 "2013-10-11T16:28:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> _Even more humorless pedant_
>
> The genealogy also mentions Tamar, Ruth, and the “wife of Uriah”, as well as Mary.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
That’s why I left myself wiggle room (“as I recall”). My point is that in this mythical geneaology, males are named in every generation, but women are not, because the culture in question valued men more than women.
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### Author:  [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/42 "2013-10-11T16:37:13Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> That’s why I left myself wiggle room (“as I recall”). My point is that in this mythical geneaology, males are named in every generation, but women are not, because the culture in question valued men more than women.
agreed - but since we are not given cain (nor abel’s) wifes names - we cannot ‘assume’ anything - we know of course tht they had to have wives, or the species wouldn’t have gotten far - even if their wives were also sisters.
rigth - so - in the absence of clear language - “cain enjoyed some tasty mutton” - we are left with ‘gods words’ as quoted by Little Nemo as an indication of, at the minimum, what the ‘believers’ believed back then - that prior to the flood - they were only given vegetation to eat (by god) and it wasn’t until after the flood that it changed.
I, of course, don’t believe it at all - and maybe one of the ‘great sins’ that disgusted god enough to ‘kill everything’ was that some people had chosen to eat meat…
None of it makes any ‘real’ sense.
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### Author:  [@ruben4ruben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruben4ruben)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/43 "2013-10-11T19:01:14Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The Bible spoke of animals being sacrificed to God. That doesn’t mean people were eating animals.
Exactly. They were not.
If one simply **reads** the context and just reads the bible with some attention it will make more sense.
God did not resent Cain’s offering because it was vegetable. He resented Cain’s attitude. It has nothing to do with meat vs vegetable because the Hebrews under Mosaic Law gave grain or bread offerings at the temple as well. Besides Cain was a farmer so it makes sense for him to offer what he produces.
God talked to Cain and told him he can make things right. He also warns him of what could happen if he doesn’t change his ways. He doesn’t tell him he has to offer meat.
Just read what Able offered and **how** he selected it. Then read what Cain offered and the manner of his selection. (It’s in the detail)
Cain just grabbed \*some \*of his harvest without care or reverence while Able selected the best and the first he had. He did it out of **respect**.
\*That \*is the difference. And this difference is repeated over and over in the Bible. Even in the New Testament or Greek Scriptures. God doesn’t accept half-hearted offerings just like a coach or employer will ask you to give your best.
Compare **Malachi 1: 6-8**
Would you be random and careless when making a gift to someone you respect?
Nice to compare:
**Exodus 12:46** , **Numbers 9:12** and **Psalms 34:20**
with **John 19:33** :
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
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### Author:  [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/44 "2013-10-11T19:11:59Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#):
>
> Exactly. They were not.
> If one simply **reads** the context and just reads the bible with some attention it will make more sense.
> \
a) you really don’t know this - all you really ‘know’ is that the bible does not record them eating animals - so you assume they did not.
b) If you would quit being so condescending in your posts, you might get a more civil reaction. Every post you make accuses everyone else of “not paying attention” - or “not reading” - enough with the attacks.
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### Author:  [@ruben4ruben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruben4ruben)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/45 "2013-10-11T19:36:08Z")
> [@](#):
>
> b) If you would quit being so condescending in your posts, you might get a more civil reaction…enough with the attacks.
Pot, Kettle…
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### Author:  [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/46 "2013-10-11T19:43:25Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#):
>
> Pot, Kettle…
not an attack when I simply point out what your posts are doing.
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### Author:  [@ruben4ruben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruben4ruben)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/47 "2013-10-11T19:53:27Z")
…is the greatest luxury.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/48 "2013-10-11T20:07:14Z")
Stop going after each other personally, both of you. Bad things are going to happen if I have to moderate this dispute in any more threads.
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### Author:  [@ruben4ruben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruben4ruben)
#### Post date: [October 11, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/49 "2013-10-11T20:23:20Z")
I’m sorry. I take all blame and won’t ever say anything to him or referring to him again. My fault, sorry.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/50 "2013-10-12T03:41:23Z")
> [@Kable](#):
>
> You think T-rex really was a vegetarian, there was a real talking snake, and a real global flood? Adam’s father wasn’t monkeyish? Why doubt 6 day creation and a young earth then?
No. I believe _animal_ death existed before the Fall and a regional Flood.
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### Author:  [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/51 "2013-10-12T03:47:45Z")
> [@SmartAlecCat](#):
>
> BTW – I suspect most or all of that harm does come only with provocation, even if only perceived as provocation from the animal perspective.
Also, the body has a way to deal with legitimate animal attacks.
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### Author:  [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2013, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/52 "2013-10-12T11:16:35Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> No. I believe _animal_ death existed before the Fall and a regional Flood.
So 6 day creation was metaphor, and the flood was a gross exaggeration? I would imagine you really wouldn’t need to start rebreeding animals after a regional flood, nor would the Ark land atop mount Ararat. Agree?
How about the talking snake? Real, metaphor or something else? Did Adam and Eve evolve from a common ancestor like other apes or were they created as described in Genesis?
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### Author:  [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2013, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/53 "2013-10-12T11:20:20Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#):
>
> God did not resent Cain’s offering because it was vegetable. He resented Cain’s attitude.
Do you think God knew he was setting up able to be killed?
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### Author:  [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/54 "2013-10-12T13:45:07Z")
So you are acussing God of playing God?
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/55 "2013-10-12T18:42:49Z")
> [@Kable](#):
>
> So 6 day creation was metaphor, and the flood was a gross exaggeration? I would imagine you really wouldn’t need to start rebreeding animals after a regional flood, nor would the Ark land atop mount Ararat. Agree?
Essentially, I am a proponent of the Framework theory.
> [@](#):
>
> How about the talking snake? Real, metaphor or something else?
Leaning towards the former.
> [@](#):
>
> Did Adam and Eve evolve from a common ancestor like other apes or were they created as described in Genesis?
[/QUOTE]
The former IMO but Adam and Eve were given souls by God along with genuine immortality.
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### Author:  [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/56 "2013-10-13T00:34:28Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Essentially, I am a proponent of the Framework theory.
OK, I read the wiki the framework theory but it didn’t answer my question. 6 day creation is metaphorical then? The flood a gross exaggeration? No need for animals on the ark?
> [@](#):
>
> Leaning towards the former.
>
> The former IMO but Adam and Eve were given souls by God along with genuine immortality.
See that’s what I don’t get. You believe in the talking snake but not in creation as described in the same book. One’s just as unlikely as the other.
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### Author:  [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/57 "2013-10-13T00:37:49Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#):
>
> So you are acussing God of playing God?
Sure, playing evil God, blessing good Able in front of jealous Cane knowing ahead of time it would get Able murdered.
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### Author:  [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/58 "2013-10-13T02:59:18Z")
> [@Kable](#):
>
> Sure, playing evil God, blessing good Able in front of jealous Cane knowing ahead of time it would get Able murdered.
well, there was no precedent - and he was already surprised that his ‘good’ creation ignored his simple rule - so, you know - maybe he just didn’t think that far ahead?
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### Author:  [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/59 "2013-10-13T13:37:57Z")
> [@simster](#):
>
> well, there was no precedent - and he was already surprised that his ‘good’ creation ignored his simple rule - so, you know - maybe he just didn’t think that far ahead?
Yeah but I thought that was all part of God’s sinister plan. That’s why he put that tree in the garden in the first place, then tossed in the talking snake.
---
### Author:  [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-believers-dominion-over-animals/670851/60 "2013-10-13T14:00:55Z")
> [@Kable](#):
>
> Yeah but I thought that was all part of God’s sinister plan. That’s why he put that tree in the garden in the first place, then tossed in the talking snake.
right - god’s plan - thats more a ‘teaching’ _ **from** _ the bible - not so sure that its actually _ **in** _ the bible as such - there are certainly a few verses that could be used to impress that it ‘has a plan’. I always took ‘gods plan’ as an excuse when followers couldn’t figure out why God let some foul thing happen.
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