# True Blood: "Never Let Me Go" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 20, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593 "2009-07-20T05:18:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/61 "2009-07-23T05:34:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > \*\*SenorBeef \*\*pointed out the problem with this. Humans are chatty Kathys. What would be used to keep them in line, glamering? Threats? The same blood bond that links Bill and Sookie. I imagine the seductions that might makes such things happen could take place at any time in history. > [@](#): > > Do you think that a vampire can live 200 years and never come across that problem? Really? Never said that. They are a different species and lived by different rules. You, as a human, find it horrifying that they drink human blood, just as a deer would be horrified at a wolf eating deer. Are you horrified by wolves eating deer? No? Why not? > [@](#): > > That entirely dismisses everything I said. Any vampire that submits to vampire law is a threat to humanity, as was shown by Bill’s punishment requiring a scapegoat in the form of Jessica. Conforming to Vampire law should be considered a criminal act. There should be one law, not two. We haven’t seen any discussion in the show of how American law is dealing with vampires, so don’t ask me to discuss it. > [@](#): > > But human beings don’t NEED to prey on other humans, it is not an existential necessity. That’s the difference. The fact that humans don’t need to do it is what makes it so much more monstrous when they do. > [@](#): > > Why should deer be expected to live in peace with a wolf? When the wolves can hide among the deer, but choose to reveal their presence, and ask for peace, the deer don’t have a ton of choices. It seems like it would be in their best interest to make peace and require the predator to stop preying on them. Will it be 100% effective? No. But it will be more effective than what they were doing about it before, no? > [@](#): > > You don’t have to recant it, but the existance of vampires is necessarily a threat to human beings. I wonder how many people have been locked in vampire dungeons and then glamered in order to make them shut up? I wonder. But still not recanting. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/62 "2009-07-23T05:38:45Z")
The show’s been pretty clear in establishing that vampires don’t have to kill humans in order to feed off them. We’ve also seen that plenty of humans are more than willing to be fed on, and I doubt we’re supposed to think that’s a phenomenon that just started when the vamps “came out of the coffin.” Not only that, but humans also prey on vampires in this universe to feed on _their_ blood, only they’re just doing it for a drug high, not for physical survival. Things are not as black and white as the church makes it sound. Their attitude towards “sympathizers” is especially alarming. For instance, by their lights, someone as harmless and as kind as Hoyt is a “sympathizer” deserving of death. That is why I say they’re corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/63 "2009-07-23T05:48:45Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > The same blood bond that links Bill and Sookie. I imagine the seductions that might makes such things happen could take place at any time in history. Ok, so the vampire enthralls people with addictive blood then? So the humans consent in the way a crackhead consents to his dealer? > [@](#): > > Never said that. They are a different species and lived by different rules. You, as a human, find it horrifying that they drink human blood, just as a deer would be horrified at a wolf eating deer. Are you horrified by wolves eating deer? No? Why not? No, but that’s irrelevant, wolves are not preying on me, and if they were doing it en masse I’d work to kill them. We work to eradicate species all the time. Our Genocide against smallpox seems to have gone pretty well. > [@](#): > > We haven’t seen any discussion in the show of how American law is dealing with vampires, so don’t ask me to discuss it. I’m not. I’m just pointing out the inherent legal conflict of interest that doesn’t require this knowledge. > [@](#): > > The fact that humans don’t need to do it is what makes it so much more monstrous when they do. Fang Banger. 😛 > [@](#): > > When the wolves can hide among the deer, but choose to reveal their presence, and ask for peace, the deer don’t have a ton of choices. It seems like it would be in their best interest to make peace and require the predator to stop preying on them. Will it be 100% effective? No. But it will be more effective than what they were doing about it before, no? And there you have it, they have us over a barrel, we are a permanent underclass and should accept our fate rather than trying to rise up against it. > [@](#): > > I wonder. But still not recanting. Fine. This is one of the better discussions of the show I’ve been involved in. I love this kind of stuff, glad you are here to take the wrong position on the topic so we can have this debate. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/64 "2009-07-23T05:56:49Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Ok, so the vampire enthralls people with addictive blood then? So the humans consent in the way a crackhead consents to his dealer? Is that how you see Bill and Sookie’s relationship? Wow, I really don’t think the writers intend it to come off that way. The bond seems mutual. In addition, we see plenty of people, not enthralled, enjoying vampire blood. It’s mutualism, not parasitism, when it’s done that way. While I’m sure that it was done in lots of other, less reciprocal ways, it’s not reasonable to think that Bill and Sookie are the first due of this nature in history, nor that less love oriented but equally mutual relationships didn’t exist between vampires and people. > [@](#): > > No, but that’s irrelevant, wolves are not preying on me, and if they were doing it en masse I’d work to kill them. We work to eradicate species all the time. Our Genocide against smallpox seems to have gone pretty well. Would you say, then, that vampires would be justified in eradicating us if we attempted to commit genocide on them? It’s got to go both ways, and I’m sure it does not. They are sentient beings and they are going to fight back. Better to try and negotiate if you can, esp. when dealing with more powerful beings. > [@](#): > > I’m not. I’m just pointing out the inherent legal conflict of interest that doesn’t require this knowledge. I’m sure it’s a legal clusterfuck but I have no idea how it would be handled or is handled in this universe, so… > [@](#): > > Fang Banger. 😛 Ummm, yeah. Not so much. > [@](#): > > And there you have it, they have us over a barrel, we are a permanent underclass and should accept our fate rather than trying to rise up against it. You love to do that, don’t you? Just take what someone says, fold it up like origami, and make something totally else out of it. But no, not quite. We outnumber them quite significantly and could fuck them up if we really wanted to, but the toll would be high. Why not try to do it peacefully? You can always revert to violence if all else fails. Shouldn’t be your first tactic, though. > [@](#): > > Fine. This is one of the better discussions of the show I’ve been involved in. I love this kind of stuff, glad you are here to take the wrong position on the topic so we can have this debate. 😛 I’m similarly glad that your irrational view is on display to provide contrast to my much more reasonable and well-considered one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/65 "2009-07-23T06:17:11Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Is that how you see Bill and Sookie’s relationship? Do you think Bill and Sookie’s relationship is typical? And besides shouldn’t we be judging it by a similar standard to how we judge pedophilia? There is no way Sookie can ever be considered equal in the power differential to Bill. > [@](#): > > Wow, I really don’t think the writers intend it to come off that way. The bond seems mutual. In addition, we see plenty of people, not enthralled, enjoying vampire blood. It’s mutualism, not parasitism, when it’s done that way. While I’m sure that it was done in lots of other, less reciprocal ways, it’s not reasonable to think that Bill and Sookie are the first due of this nature in history, nor that less love oriented but equally mutual relationships didn’t exist between vampires and people. We don’t see plenty of people not enthralled enjoying vampire blood. In order to get their fix Jason and his girlfriend captured and held one captive. Should making someone into a vampire be considered murder? > [@](#): > > Would you say, then, that vampires would be justified in eradicating us if we attempted to commit genocide on them? It’s got to go both ways, and I’m sure it does not. They are sentient beings and they are going to fight back. Better to try and negotiate if you can, esp. when dealing with more powerful beings. Well they’d suffer more if they eradicated us than we would if we eradicated them. 😉 The relationship does not seem to be symbiotic it seems to be parasitic. Humans don’t NEED vampires, but vampires NEED humans. > [@](#): > > I’m sure it’s a legal clusterfuck but I have no idea how it would be handled or is handled in this universe, so… Right. > [@](#): > > Ummm, yeah. Not so much. Well you shore talk like one! 😛 > [@](#): > > You love to do that, don’t you? Just take what someone says, fold it up like origami, and make something totally else out of it. But no, not quite. We outnumber them quite significantly and could fuck them up if we really wanted to, but the toll would be high. Why not try to do it peacefully? You can always revert to violence if all else fails. Shouldn’t be your first tactic, though. History is filled with vastly outnumbered ruling classes. What about the Raj in India? A fat lot of good outnumbering the British did the Indians for a century. Peace with the vampires seems to be a polite fiction in the storyline. The vampires are generally openly contemptuous of the idea as far as I can tell. > [@](#): > > I’m similarly glad that your irrational view is on display to provide contrast to my much more reasonable and well-considered one. 😃 Bleeding neck liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/66 "2009-07-23T11:13:27Z")
I have something very profound to add to the discussion. The preacher’s wife is so hot that I would join any religion she cares to ask… including scientology. ---
**Author:** ![ginman999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@ginman999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ginman999)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/67 "2009-07-23T12:08:22Z")
The hotel that Bill and Sookie are staying at in Dallas has sealed rooms that let a vampire stay up after dawn. Why wouldn’t every vamp live in a home that allows that? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/68 "2009-07-23T12:50:55Z")
Wow, you guys should be an advertisement for HBO. It’s not that you’re able to have a serious discussion about a TV show - that’s common. You have such stark views on whether vampires are dangerous monsters or just want to belong even though they’re fictional creatures in a television show. After skimming through this thread I would swear vampires must be real. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/69 "2009-07-23T16:57:45Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Wow, you guys should be an advertisement for HBO. It’s not that you’re able to have a serious discussion about a TV show - that’s common. You have such stark views on whether vampires are dangerous monsters or just want to belong even though they’re fictional creatures in a television show. After skimming through this thread I would swear vampires must be real. They’re both dangerous monsters AND they just want to belong. It’s a particle… it’s a wave. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/70 "2009-07-23T18:19:47Z")
> [@ginman999](#): > > The hotel that Bill and Sookie are staying at in Dallas has sealed rooms that let a vampire stay up after dawn. Why wouldn’t every vamp live in a home that allows that? Because the light-proof rooms in the hotel don’t let a vampire stay up after dawn. They just let them sleep in the bed instead of a coffin/crawlspace/crypt. Vampires are, in the books at least, inherently and immutably nocturnal and only the old ones are able to wake at all in the dawn and the dusk. I suppose they could have their house or bedroom completely light-proofed, but it would cost a lot for no real benefit. And would probably do a doozy on the resale value of the place. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/71 "2009-07-23T23:05:31Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > They’re both dangerous monsters AND they just want to belong. It’s a particle… it’s a wave. I’ve got some particles of silver right here. 😉 **Fuzzy Dunlop** I used to play Vampire the Masquerade so this isn’t the first time I have given these issues some thought. 😉 **CrazyCatLady** That’s my impression too. They sleep pretty soundly during the day, but as Bill said, he dreamed that Sookie had left. 😉 That conversation happened during the day. Also the blonde vampire activist lady who is always debating with the preacher from LODI basically said that she travels a westerly course so that she can always be awake. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/72 "2009-07-23T23:39:57Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > And as for preacher/hot pants wife, I thought they were just working as a team on dumb-as-dirt Jason to get him to head up their Army. Her breathless flirting with Jason always struck me as over the top phony, notice she technically did not commit adultery with him. A married woman giving a guy who isn’t her husband a handy doesn’t count as adultery? :dubious: Does the definition of the word “is” have anything to do with this notion? ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/73 "2009-07-24T02:04:08Z")
IMO, hot pants preacher’s wife is the kind who yes, would not think she was committing adultery, since there was no actual fornication. Just like Bill Clinton! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/74 "2009-07-24T02:44:03Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > IMO, hot pants preacher’s wife is the kind who yes, would not think she was committing adultery, since there was no actual fornication. Just like Bill Clinton! I don’t see why you’d think that? I think it’s pretty clear she knows it’s adultery and is doing it to spite her husband. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/75 "2009-07-24T03:31:45Z")
I don’t think she’s in cahoots either. I think she’s honestly hot for Jason and that the Newlins’ marriage, however perfectly they try to present it to the outside world, is all but loveless, and probably sexless. I don’t think her flattery of Jason is manipulative and self-serving the way it was when Amy did it. I think Sarah really digs him and sees his genuine good qualities. That’s what intrigues me about that storyline. I think there’s a real connection there. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593/76 "2009-07-24T04:20:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t think she’s in cahoots either. I think she’s honestly hot for Jason and that the Newlins’ marriage, however perfectly they try to present it to the outside world, is all but loveless, and probably sexless. > > I don’t think her flattery of Jason is manipulative and self-serving the way it was when Amy did it. I think Sarah really digs him and sees his genuine good qualities. That’s what intrigues me about that storyline. I think there’s a real connection there. I think that’s probably true actually. But the thing about adultery is the manipulation cannot be excised from it no matter how real the emotion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-blood-never-let-me-go-open-spoilers/503593.md?page=3)