# True Detective - HBO - McConaughey / Harrelson \[SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 11, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697 "2013-06-11T03:43:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/281 "2014-02-25T20:46:10Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > I’ll have to watch that episode again, because I missed Clinton’s name being specifically mentioned. But there are reasons why it may have been brought up that have nothing to do with making a caricature of a conservative. First, it helps reinforce the time frame, and how that part of the story is taking place in the mid-90’s. Second, Clinton is possibly best known for his sexual scandal. Given the themes of the show, referencing someone known for not being able to keep it in his pants seems reasonable. No, Clinton’s name was brought up in purely derogatory fashion. It happens when Marty is walking with his father-in-law, and the old man is ranting about how things are going wrong. At one point he simply snorts, “Clinton!” - the only point to that being to show that he’s a nasty conservative and not a nasty liberal or a nasty independent. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/282 "2014-02-25T21:08:12Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > No, Clinton’s name was brought up in purely derogatory fashion. It happens when Marty is walking with his father-in-law, and the old man is ranting about how things are going wrong. At one point he simply snorts, “Clinton!” - the only point to that being to show that he’s a nasty conservative and not a nasty liberal or a nasty independent. Yes, this is what the FIL says: “So you’re telling me the world isn’t getting worse? I’ve seen kids today, all in black, wearing makeup, shit on their faces. Everything’s sex. Clinton!” And I have to say, the evil Rev. Tuttle (I don’t know for sure he’ll be involved, but he’s definitely presented as an evil character.) is all about funneling public money into private religious schools. A classic liberal versus conservative hot-button issue. As I said before, it will be kind of cheesy if this boils down to a cult of powerful men abusing children (and even as a Dem, the cheesiness will be multiplied if it’s made terribly clear they’re all conservatives), but if any show can carry it off, it would be this one. They’ve certainly given plenty of indications that something along those lines is where we’re headed. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/283 "2014-02-25T21:18:02Z")
> [@koeeoaddi](#): > > I hope this isn’t going where it’s hinting it’s going. If the killer(s) turn out to be a coven of wealthy, well connected, silk- suited fundie caracatures, I’m going to be really disappointed. Nothing else about the show is such an obvious cliche, though, so I still expect to be surprised. The show could have omitted the missing records and gone with the standard nutjobs as culprits, but would that be believable? Because of the missing records/lack of followup from law enforcement, someone’s covering up, and if there’s a cover-up, there has to be some power to keep it covered up. Still doesn’t explain why there wasn’t more of an outcry from parents, unless they’re all like Dora Lange’s mom. I’m not happy that it’s religion-connected, but it still fits with real life, considering Waco, Jim Jones, that guy with all the child brides, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Aeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Aeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/284 "2014-02-25T21:37:15Z")
Well, for the most part it’s not a terribly subtle show. It’s not just the Reverend. The whole police is basically straight from Cliché Central. Rust’s over the top nihilsm. Marty’s manwhore ways etc. I actually think it’s hilarious that the tent preacher is now a down on his luck drunkard who had to admit to himself that God doesn’t exist. The show never misses a chance to go for these kind of moments. And yeah, so far everthing know about the cult points to them not just being crazy murderers and pedos, but also being some sort of white power movement given that the Perpetrators (especially Reggie Ladoux with his Nazi tattoos) and their, ah, sacrifices are all white. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/285 "2014-02-25T22:18:43Z")
> [@koeeoaddi](#): > > Nothing else about the show is such an obvious cliche, though, so I still expect to be surprised. C’mon man, it’s full of clichés. Creepy naked female corpse discovered in the first five minutes of the show? Check. Brooding nihilist hero with family tragedy baggage? Check. “You’re a loose cannon! Hand in your badge and gun!”, leading to “Fuck you chief I’m going solo! Takin’ this investigation off the mothafuckin grid!”? Almost certainly - check. And others have already mentioned the ridiculously over-the-top portrayals of conservative fundamentalist Christians. ---
**Author:** ![koeeoaddi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/koeeoaddi/32/408_2.png) [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/286 "2014-02-25T22:39:48Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > C’mon man, it’s full of clichés. > > Creepy naked female corpse discovered in the first five minutes of the show? Check. Brooding nihilist hero with family tragedy baggage? Check. “You’re a loose cannon! Hand in your badge and gun!”, leading to “Fuck you chief I’m going solo! Takin’ this investigation off the mothafuckin grid!”? Almost certainly - check. 😃 Point taken. It’s just so stylishly done, I hardly noticed. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/287 "2014-02-26T00:40:16Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > My biggest question at this point is wondering if Chamber’s The Yellow King story collection exists in this fictional world. Rust is well read, but there’s been no connection made. I’d guess no, sort of like how zombie movies don’t exist in zombie movies. No genre self-awareness. How many fans of late 19th century weird horror/romance literature are there? I came to the King in Yellow via the Lovecraft, who references it only tangentially. (And proceeded on to Ambrose Bierce, which is also required reading for discussion of Carcosa.) Bierce/Chambers/Lovecraft are niche reading today, with Lovecraft probably being the most popular. I doubt most well read people are familiar with the King in Yellow or Carcosa. How many people have actually read An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge, which is regarded as a very good short story by Bierce. None of the stories in the King in Yellow are (or should be) so well regarded or as widely anthologized. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/288 "2014-02-26T00:45:22Z")
While the show does embody some clichés, it implements them very well. Actually, I think “cliché” isn’t the right word. I prefer to describe the show as _pulpy_. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/289 "2014-02-26T00:55:13Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > How many fans of late 19th century weird horror/romance literature are there? I came to the King in Yellow via the Lovecraft, who references it only tangentially. (And proceeded on to Ambrose Bierce, which is also required reading for discussion of Carcosa.) Bierce/Chambers/Lovecraft are niche reading today, with Lovecraft probably being the most popular. I doubt most well read people are familiar with the King in Yellow or Carcosa. How many people have actually read An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge, which is regarded as a very good short story by Bierce. None of the stories in the King in Yellow are (or should be) so well regarded or as widely anthologized. Yeah, but by now they should have googled the phrase. I did. Not in the mid 90s, but they’re still digging into this thing. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/290 "2014-02-26T01:05:42Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > And others have already mentioned the ridiculously over-the-top portrayals of conservative fundamentalist Christians. I didn’t see anything over-the-top. I’ve been to tent revival shows. Heck, the preaching at my Bible camp (through a mainstream church) had a hellfire program that makes Rev. Theriot look like Billy Graham (who can be a bit over-the-top himself). Nothing over-the-top about Tuttle either. He’s shown as calm, dignified, even helpful to Rust. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/291 "2014-02-26T01:17:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In the early 1990s, we were just getting over calling them “car phones,” but by 1992, every region covered by cell towers had two cell phone service providers. In my area, the were U.S. Cellular and Cellular One. Just to expand on this my father was a narcotics officer and in 1990 he had [one of these](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_MicroTAC), issued to him by his department. I remember it because it was my senior year in high school, and nobody had ever seen anything like it at the time. It was smaller than those wiki pics make it look. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/292 "2014-02-26T03:21:18Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Man, how about Rust telling that mother that she should probably kill herself when she gets the chance? That scene was like a punch in the gut. We finally caught up, and that was indeed a fantastic scene. Now I’m thinking it might be Theriot, if only because of that John Deere mug he was drinking from. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/293 "2014-02-26T13:58:50Z")
I was thinking about faces and masks. The “green-eared spaghetti monster” certainly indicates to me a mask of some kind. When Rust asks the LeDoux survivor if the additional assailant had scars on his face, she freaks out, yelling “His face, his face!” So I was thinking, “All right, this guy wears a freaky mask of some kind,” only of course, the reason they were asking about scars is that the girls at the revival tent saw Dora talking to a “tall man with kind of a strange face, skin shiny around his jaw, like burned.” And of course in his preaching, Theriot says, “The face you wear is not your own.” So I’m going back and forth - is the guy wearing a mask, or is his actual face messed up? Then it struck me - this is straight out of _The King in Yellow_ - > [@](#): > > CAMILLA: You, sir, should unmask. > > STRANGER: Indeed? > > CASSILDA: Indeed it’s time. We all have laid aside disguise but you. > > STRANGER: I wear no mask. > > CAMILLA: (Terrified, aside to Cassilda.) No mask? No mask! Now, realistically, it could be that there’s a scarred man who also wears a mask at times, or even that repeated wearing of the mask has scarred his face. But I enjoy the callback to the play once again. Oh, and if anyone is interested, the fellows at the H.P. Lovecraft Literary Podcast have made their [shows covering The King in Yellow](http://hppodcraft.com/2012/08/08/episode-121-the-repairer-of-reputations-part-1/) (link is to episdoe 121; 121-123 cover _The King in Yellow_) available for free. I love the show - they do a good job of recapping and analyzing, and also tend to be very funny. They have really good readers reading excerpts as well. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/294 "2014-02-26T14:08:43Z")
Maybe the green eared spaghetti monster was whoever we saw wearing that gas mask, the hose could be spaghetti like to a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/295 "2014-02-26T15:50:38Z")
I assumed that the gas mask as well as the scarring was related to cooking up meth. Don’t meth makers often burn themselves in the process? Did anyone notice any significant scarring on LeDoux’s face? I didn’t but maybe it was covered by the beard. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/296 "2014-02-26T19:16:39Z")
I couldn’t figure out why Rust started to treat Marty so badly in 2002. He rudely demanded that Marty type up the 41-page report. It’s not like he was ever promoted above Marty. Was Rust just getting a bit too full of himself? He did have a talent in reading people, knowing whether they’re lying, and then getting them to admit to crimes. And perhaps he felt that Marty was riding his coattails. But still, this was all very unfair to Marty who did support Rust. It’s just odd that he would disrespect him like that after 7 successful years together. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/297 "2014-02-26T19:57:55Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I couldn’t figure out why Rust started to treat Marty so badly in 2002. He rudely demanded that Marty type up the 41-page report. It’s not like he was ever promoted above Marty. Was Rust just getting a bit too full of himself? He did have a talent in reading people, knowing whether they’re lying, and then getting them to admit to crimes. And perhaps he felt that Marty was riding his coattails. But still, this was all very unfair to Marty who did support Rust. It’s just odd that he would disrespect him like that after 7 successful years together. I think it was a combination of 1) knowing that somebody was still out there murdering children, 2) frustration with being proven wrong, and 3) disgust that Marty killed the only good connection they’d had to the cult. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/298 "2014-02-26T20:02:45Z")
Rust is angry with Marty because Marty is not a “true detective”. Marty impedes the solving of a case by not caring to follow up on leads, shooting suspects because he can’t control his anger, impeding getting confessions because he can’t control his anger, etc. Rust is actually doing the heavy lifting on the cases they work, yet Marty got promoted and Rust only got a commendation because Marty was “magnanimous” enough to get him one. Remember when they went back to the station after shooting LeDoux, the entire office praised Marty but didn’t say anything to Rust, and they wouldn’t have even gotten to LeDoux without Rust. Rust cares about putting the bad guys away, and Marty only cares about his ego. Rust feels contempt for those kinds of cops. Why shouldn’t Marty be relegated to doing the paperwork if Rust is doing the heavy lifting? Rust despises incompetence and laziness, and Marty is incompetent and lazy in many ways. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/299 "2014-02-26T20:24:30Z")
“Without me, buddy, there is no you.” ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/300 "2014-02-26T21:30:27Z")
Yeah, that scene was uncomfortable for being so true. In every long term relationship there are some things that can never be unsaid once they are uttered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697.md?page=16)