# True Detective - HBO - McConaughey / Harrelson \[SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 11, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697 "2013-06-11T03:43:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/401 "2014-03-10T14:59:18Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Anyone else think that the shot of Rust near the end, when he’s in his hospital bed and the camera pulls into his reflection in the window, made him look exactly like classical images of Jesus? Had the same thought while watching that scene. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/402 "2014-03-10T15:21:16Z")
He works “miracles” in getting confessions. He has visions of a sort. He has a book in which he keeps “accounts” - they call him the Tax Man, but he just as well might be keeping track of everyone’s sin. He doesn’t get along with some of the local religious or political hierarchy. He is embodied in sinful flesh - but has the rare ability to at least be aware of his inherently sinful nature as a human being. He sees the sin in everyone, including himself, and it disgusts him. His life includes a great deal of suffering. In the early episodes, he spent time hanging out with prostitutes. Then he “died” (coma) and came back - with a new message of hope. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/403 "2014-03-10T15:26:01Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > He works “miracles” in getting confessions. He has visions of a sort. He has a book in which he keeps “accounts” - they call him the Tax Man, but he just as well might be keeping track of everyone’s sin. He doesn’t get along with some of the local religious or political hierarchy. He is embodied in sinful flesh - but has the rare ability to at least be aware of his inherently sinful nature as a human being. He sees the sin in everyone, including himself, and it disgusts him. His life includes a great deal of suffering. In the early episodes, he spent time hanging out with prostitutes. > > Then he “died” (coma) and came back - with a new message of hope. I think there’s a lot to this theory. A quick search brought up[this YT clip from last night’s episode](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktfO6DN2E0E)of the scene I was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/404 "2014-03-10T15:53:50Z")
The ending was just perfect. Which was fitting as the whole show was perfect. I think McConaughey’s performance was the equal if not the better of his Oscar-winning role in Dallas Buyer’s Club. And Harrelson’s wasn’t far behind. It’s going to be a tough act to follow for the rest of the series. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/405 "2014-03-10T16:02:12Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Great series. Hilarious seeing so many pundits across multiple sites looking for clues where none existed. > > Just great writing and acting. I agree. It seemed fairly obvious to me early on that the show was a character study, and the “mystery” wasn’t the real focus, except to illustrate how the case affected these two. I never thought it was going to be _Lost_. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/406 "2014-03-10T16:41:36Z")
I didn’t laugh at the pundits looking for clues, because Pizzolatto put them there – they weren’t accidents. Even if all of them didn’t turn out to be actual clues, we didn’t see anything that he didn’t intend for us to see and ponder. That Sepinwall interview was refreshing. None of that crap that David Chase pulled out of his ass when The Sopranos ended. 'It’s all there on the screen." Except it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/407 "2014-03-10T16:43:17Z")
I’m usually a very harsh critic of the idea that “it’s all about the characters - don’t obsess over plot details”, since it’s so often used as an excuse for poor writing. _glares meaningfully in the direction of LOST_ But in this case, although I do have some minor complaints, I think that saying largely applies here. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/408 "2014-03-10T17:32:08Z")
The light vs. dark conversation at the end was a bit too twee for me. Seems out of character for those two to be so caught up in superficial descriptions of good & evil after having spent half their lives as cops. Even if they just barely survived a pretty dramatic event. So I wish that had been handled better. At least with the same amount of jaded pragmatism as their dialogue in the tent during the revival sermon early in the series. That said, I did end up liking and being sympathetic to both characters and their inherent faults. The great acting didn’t hurt. I do have a questions… Maggie (Marty’s wife)… there were a couple of times where dialogue made mention of the fact that she has “big house”. How was that supposed to be significant? Were we to assume she re-married to someone well off? That she became successful on her own after having split from Marty? I simply don’t recall if there was anything more mentioned about her life after the divorce… or did I miss a clue somewhere? When visiting Marty in the hospital, not Maggie and not the daughters became as visibly emotional as Marty. Strange, right? There was a smugness to Maggie 2012 that wasn’t there in Maggie 2002. Like she got away with something. I dismissed her being in any way involved or knowing anything about the cult’s existence earlier. Now I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/409 "2014-03-10T17:52:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I do have a questions… Maggie (Marty’s wife)… there were a couple of times where dialogue made mention of the fact that she has “big house”. How was that supposed to be significant? Were we to assume she re-married to someone well off? That she became successful on her own after having split from Marty? I simply don’t recall if there was anything more mentioned about her life after the divorce… or did I miss a clue somewhere? She had a big ass ring on her finger when Marty took her hand in the hospital. We never found out what Marty’s oldest daughter’s involvement was, the Barbie gangbang had to mean something. And her paintings with the black stars. I guess “we didn’t get them all, but we got ours” was the way to brush any of the other threads of the sprawl under the rug. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/410 "2014-03-10T17:58:37Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > She had a big ass ring on her finger when Marty took her hand in the hospital… During the interviewing, Papania or Gilbough referred to her as Mrs. Sawyer. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/411 "2014-03-10T18:22:13Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > She had a big ass ring on her finger when Marty took her hand in the hospital. Saw the ring… wondered if it was Marty’s… > [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > During the interviewing, Papania or Gilbough referred to her as Mrs. Sawyer. …But missed that. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/412 "2014-03-10T18:27:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Saw the ring… wondered if it was Marty’s… > > …But missed that. > [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > During the interviewing, Papania or Gilbough referred to her as Mrs. Sawyer. Pizzolatto said that there were scenes filmed detailing the fact of her remarriage, but they ran out of run time to include them. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/413 "2014-03-10T18:32:58Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I didn’t laugh at the pundits looking for clues, because Pizzolatto put them there – they weren’t accidents. Even if all of them didn’t turn out to be actual clues, we didn’t see anything that he didn’t intend for us to see and ponder. . . . I’m thinking a lot of the potential clues were really meant as mood-setting or thematic support. For instance, this season is certainly a meditation on how men treat women in the realm of sexuality. It’s perfectly sensible for there to be a supporting storyline involving Marty’s supposedly protected, privileged daughter and how even she is exposed to the nasty side of sex in the normal course of life - no abuse or familial cults required. Ditto the sexual politics in his marriage, and his in-laws’ views on marriage, sex, and kids these days. I’ll be very interested to listen to the commentary when the DVDs come out. Similarly, I can see them just slipping in imagery of deer, crowns, and the color yellow all along simply to underline those themes and reinforce the weird atmosphere. On another topic, I guess the plot wasn’t even actually related to Chambers’s stories - this appears to me to universe in which they don’t exist. They just presented an idea Pizzolatto found interesting (a book about a book that will drive you crazy) along with some great creepy images and ideas. Oh, and I thought it was kind of interesting that in the last two episodes, we were watching a TV show about a videotape that broke people’s will - it instantly made both Marty and Geraci start cooperating because it was so horrifying. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/414 "2014-03-10T19:02:52Z")
> [@Unauthorized Cinnamon](#): > > For instance, this season is certainly a meditation on how men treat women in the realm of sexuality. I think it’s very telling that after their ordeal, both Marty and Rust are forgiven by women. Marty by his wife and daughters (showing their support for his heroism regardless of how poorly he treated them all those years), and Rust by the experience of his dead daughter’s presence (letting him know it’s OK to get that chip off his shoulder about humanity). ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/415 "2014-03-10T19:14:14Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > I think it’s very telling that after their ordeal, both Marty and Rust are forgiven by women. Marty by his wife and daughters (showing their support for his heroism regardless of how poorly he treated them all those years), and Rust by the experience of his dead daughter’s presence (letting him know it’s OK to get that chip off his shoulder about humanity). Kinda revealing what you have to go through just to be forgiven by a woman. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/416 "2014-03-10T19:26:18Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > It’s not thrilling enough to see Rust chase Errol through the totally messed up family catacombs, get stabbed, beat a motherfucker with his skull, and get saved by Marty? Speaking for myself, I wasn’t looking for an unexpected twist, but I was hoping for an ending that did not include thriller clichés like– 1. A chase 2. A shoot out 3. An unrealistic fight on which people take savage beatings or injuries and still manage to keep fighting 4. An “out-of-nowhere” gunshot to save the day by an off-screen person who we thought was down for the count 5. A family reunion 6. An “I saw the light” near death experience And I was disappointed that certain questions were so strongly emphasized but not resolved, like: 7. Was Audrey molested as a child or what? Why did we spend so much time with that issue if it were not to be resolved? 8. What did the Yellow King have to do with this? Was a Yellow King costume part of the ritual killing? 9. Why were two (?) of the murders do publicly revealed when the cult has taken pains to keep its countless murders secret? 10. Was Errol Childress some kind if mastermind or a simpleton gone rogue? If the cult was careful to make sure Rev. Tuttle wouldn’t expose them, why would they let an apparent loose cannon like Errol roam free? 11. WTF was that all about when Errol Childress suddenly started talking like Cary Grant? What was the point of showing us that? Oh and a minor point, I think I missed the part where Marty actually found a telephone. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/417 "2014-03-10T19:46:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Speaking for myself, I wasn’t looking for an unexpected twist, but I was hoping for an ending that did not include thriller clichés like– > > 1. A chase > > 2. A shoot out > > 3. An unrealistic fight on which people take savage beatings or injuries and still manage to keep fighting > > 4. An “out-of-nowhere” gunshot to save the day by an off-screen person who we thought was down for the count > > 5. A family reunion > > 6. An “I saw the light” near death experience > And I was disappointed that certain questions were so strongly emphasized but not resolved, like: > > 7. Was Audrey molested as a child or what? Why did we spend so much time with that issue if it were not to be resolved? > > 8. What did the Yellow King have to do with this? Was a Yellow King costume part of the ritual killing? > > 9. Why were two (?) of the murders do publicly revealed when the cult has taken pains to keep its countless murders secret? > > 10. Was Errol Childress some kind if mastermind or a simpleton gone rogue? If the cult was careful to make sure Rev. Tuttle wouldn’t expose them, why would they let an apparent loose cannon like Errol roam free? > > 11. WTF was that all about when Errol Childress suddenly started talking like Cary Grant? What was the point of showing us that? > > Oh and a minor point, I think I missed the part where Marty actually found a telephone. At work, so I can’t answer all but I think the point of Childress suddenly doing a really, really good British accent wasn’t just to emphasize he was nuts, but to emphasize that he wasn’t a simpleton, he just pretended to be. His “Come here little priest” really creeped me out. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/418 "2014-03-10T19:58:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Speaking for myself, I wasn’t looking for an unexpected twist, but I was hoping for an ending that did not include thriller clichés like– > > 1. A chase > > 2. A shoot out > > 3. An unrealistic fight on which people take savage beatings or injuries and still manage to keep fighting > > 4. An “out-of-nowhere” gunshot to save the day by an off-screen person who we thought was down for the count > > 5. A family reunion > > 6. An “I saw the light” near death experience All fair criticisms. If someone asked me if they should check out True Detective, I’d say, “Yes - it’s a bog-standard serial killer cop story, but told with a ton of style and excellent characterization.” However, I feel like the finale does rely on more pedestrian tropes without the artistic flourishes that made the first half of the season so mesmerizing. > [@](#): > > 1. What did the Yellow King have to do with this? Was a Yellow King costume part of the ritual killing? I believe in the underground tunnels, the weird skeleton figure draped in yellow cloth was a representation of the god they were worshiping. As I said, I don’t think _The Yellow King_ by Robert Chambers exists in this universe - it’s supposed to be a deity in their degenerate Santeria-Voodoo-Whatever-Insanity religion. Possibly invented by Sam Tuttle. > [@](#): > > 1. Why were two (?) of the murders do publicly revealed when the cult has taken pains to keep its countless murders secret? > > 2. Was Errol Childress some kind if mastermind or a simpleton gone rogue? If the cult was careful to make sure Rev. Tuttle wouldn’t expose them, why would they let an apparent loose cannon like Errol roam free? I think what’s shown supports a narrative that Errol went rogue (though not a simpleton) - torturing his father to death certainly dovetails with that. Perhaps he also killed the Reverend, either out of vituperation or self-protection. I’ll have to watch it again . . . > [@](#): > > 1. WTF was that all about when Errol Childress suddenly started talking like Cary Grant? What was the point of showing us that? Ya got me there. That was full of WTF-ness. > [@](#): > > Oh and a minor point, I think I missed the part where Marty actually found a telephone. It’s not shown, but implied by Marty saying, “Everyone has a phone - where’s yours?!” then running out of the house like he’d taken care of what he needed to do in there. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/419 "2014-03-10T19:59:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > At work, so I can’t answer all but I think the point of Childress suddenly doing a really, really good British accent wasn’t just to emphasize he was nuts, but to emphasize that he wasn’t a simpleton, he just pretended to be. I liked this part very much, especially given all the conversation around masks. Essentially this was a guy with a mask for every occasion (remember his simple accent when Cohle first approached him?)…that is, for every occasion except when a young boy walks up and stares at him, when he started to fall apart. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697/420 "2014-03-10T19:59:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Oh and a minor point, I think I missed the part where Marty actually found a telephone. They didn’t show it, but I thought it was implied by him sticking a gun to the woman’s head and shouting, “Now where in the fuck is your real telephone?” (paraphrasing) ETA: Ninja’d! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-detective-hbo-mcconaughey-harrelson-spoilers/660697.md?page=22)