# TRUE fan interference -- is this good or bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 24, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310 "2010-08-24T17:04:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/41 "2010-08-26T01:16:23Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > I don’t think people are really grasping it with the “replay” thing. The officials in golf don’t rule on things on a stroke-by-stroke basis as they go. The golfers are supposed to do it. The officials can use any means of investigation they want to determine whether a player has failed to do this correctly. Nothing is being “overturned” because there is no official ruling in the first place, only what the players themselves have claimed. > > but **dio** you kind of make my point. if the tour continues down this path then if i was a competitor i’d being getting an official ruling before i did anything. golf is self policing and for the most part i think most folks try to do the right thing (and if i ever play with someone that is overtly cheating or purposely making crappy rules decisions then i call them on their crud and never play with them again). and if i ever have any really grey area question i typically get someone in my group involved in a discussion over what the play should be. or i’ll announce before hand does anyone have a problem with what i am going to do? now, of course, this is typically the normal 50 dollar nassau bet on the weekend and not the millions that the pros play for. but to have a viewer call in post event and change the outcome seems ludicrous. what other sport would allow that? Except of course at pro tournaments there ARE officials on the course that players can and do ask for on the spot rulings. Nautrally once the official has given “advice” his word is final (I think) ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/42 "2010-08-26T03:19:03Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > > [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > > > In a sanctioned event, it’s completely within your rights to get a ruling from an official if there is some ambiguity in a situation. > > > > I’m with **Dio**. > > but that is kind of the problem. take the stadler example. obviously one can not build a stance but is laying a towel down so you don’t get your trousers dirty consitute that infraction. and since you can repair ball marks on a green what constitutes that. one that was today or one that was made a week ago or maybe is just an irregularity in the surface. my only point is that if these types of rulings are upheld that if i was playing for millions that i wouldn’t even mark the ball on what appears to be the putting green without getting an official ruling. and then we will have twelve hour rounds. I don’t recall if Stadler ever got an official ruling, though. If he, at the time he was going to put the towel down, got a ruling that said it was cool. then it wouldn’t be an issue. The lesson? If there’s any kind of a question, ask. Get a ruling. Then you can argue. And yeah, some of the inherent unfairness in television coverage can be a bit of a problem, but you can’t have cameras following everyone. I’ll take what it is now as a happy medium. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/43 "2010-08-26T13:33:58Z")
What exactly is the rationale for the rule in the first place? I understand that yes, it is against the rules to have a weight on your club in practice, and if that is the case, then she should be DQ’ed no matter how the violation is found out, but I presume rules in sport are imposed to prevent something unfair or damaging to the sport. What is wrong with having a weight on your club during practice? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/44 "2010-08-26T14:20:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What exactly is the rationale for the rule in the first place? I understand that yes, it is against the rules to have a weight on your club in practice, and if that is the case, then she should be DQ’ed no matter how the violation is found out, but I presume rules in sport are imposed to prevent something unfair or damaging to the sport. > > What is wrong with having a weight on your club during practice? > > Regards, > Shodan it’s considered using an artificial training device during the round which is prohibited by 14-3. and during practice it is fine. it is just not allowed during the course of a round which she was in the middle of. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/45 "2010-08-26T14:34:32Z")
…I photograph local sports for fun on my weekends. A few weeks ago I was at a soccer game when the referee blew the whistle when one player held onto another players jersey. “Aw come on ref, I wasn’t holding no jersey!” I quickly checked the last sequence I took and sure enough he was holding the jersey. 😉 Now as the guy on the sideline as far as I’m concerned it isn’t my place to tell the referee he got it right: and if the camera told a different story it wasn’t my place to tell the ref he got it wrong. And thats really how I feel about this. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/46 "2010-08-26T14:51:26Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I photograph local sports for fun on my weekends. A few weeks ago I was at a soccer game when the referee blew the whistle when one player held onto another players jersey. “Aw come on ref, I wasn’t holding no jersey!” I quickly checked the last sequence I took and sure enough he was holding the jersey. 😉 Now as the guy on the sideline as far as I’m concerned it isn’t my place to tell the referee he got it right: and if the camera told a different story it wasn’t my place to tell the ref he got it wrong. And thats really how I feel about this. and this kind of proves my point. why couldn’t you submit photographic evidence after the contest is concluded and everyone has basically signed off on it and have the outcome reversed? that could make professional sports highly entertaining. tonight: yeh, we won. the next morning: oh crud, we lost. that afternoon: cool we did in fact win. that night: oh shart, we did lose. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/47 "2010-08-26T15:07:22Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > and this kind of proves my point. why couldn’t you submit photographic evidence after the contest is concluded and everyone has basically signed off on it and have the outcome reversed? that could make professional sports highly entertaining. tonight: yeh, we won. the next morning: oh crud, we lost. that afternoon: cool we did in fact win. that night: oh shart, we did lose. Actually, it doesn’t prove your point at all. The difference is we have **no** idea what would have happened in the football game if the tugging shirt decision had gone the other way. In golf, had the player correctly imposed a two stroke penalty on him or herself, we know exactly what the result would have been. Moreover, golf, unlike football or baseball or pretty much any other sport I can think of is a self policed event. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/48 "2010-08-26T15:18:13Z")
> [@villa](#): > > The difference is we have **no** idea what would have happened in the football game if the tugging shirt decision had gone the other way. In golf, had the player correctly imposed a two stroke penalty on him or herself, we know exactly what the result would have been. Well, this isn’t really true. I guess it’s closer to true for golf than for other sports like football, but the application of a penalty would affect the rest of the play. For example, if the grounding penalty on Dustin Johnson had been applied immediately, he’d have known that he needed to hole his chip to get into a playoff, and would clearly have played that shot differently. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/49 "2010-08-26T15:19:43Z")
but if i had photographic evidence as a fan that an inbounds/out of bounds call was flat out wrong why would the nfl not step in and reverse the results post end of game. i mean it’s a clear fracking rule, right? the people on the ground screwed up. as a fan i want justice. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/50 "2010-08-26T15:36:10Z")
The NFL doesn’t need fan evidence, because they already have access to more and better camera angles, and a very specific procedure for how the evidence of those cameras can be applied. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/51 "2010-08-26T15:37:04Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > but if i had photographic evidence as a fan that an inbounds/out of bounds call was flat out wrong why would the nfl not step in and reverse the results post end of game. i mean it’s a clear fracking rule, right? the people on the ground screwed up. as a fan i want justice. Well in American football the only comparable situation I can think of is a situation where one team trails by 2 points, and with the absolute final kick of the game, they are ruled to have scored/missed a field goal and the evidence shows they actually missed/scored it. If it is a step out of bounds call with any time left on the clock, you have no idea what the game would have been like had it been called correctly. And, again, there is no responsibility on an American football player to stop running if he knows he has stepped out of bounds. There is in golf. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/52 "2010-08-26T16:39:21Z")
Who exactly do they call. 1-800-cheaters? It seems really odd to me that you could actually get someone on the phone at the tourney. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/53 "2010-08-26T18:44:42Z")
> [@villa](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > but if i had photographic evidence as a fan that an inbounds/out of bounds call was flat out wrong why would the nfl not step in and reverse the results post end of game. i mean it’s a clear fracking rule, right? the people on the ground screwed up. as a fan i want justice. > > Well in American football the only comparable situation I can think of is a situation where one team trails by 2 points, and with the absolute final kick of the game, they are ruled to have scored/missed a field goal and the evidence shows they actually missed/scored it. > > If it is a step out of bounds call with any time left on the clock, you have no idea what the game would have been like had it been called correctly. > > And, again, there is no responsibility on an American football player to stop running if he knows he has stepped out of bounds. There is in golf. nope. in the stadler instance he was dq’d well after the round was over for signing an incorrect scorecard. although the infraction happened the day before. so i see no reason why you couldn’t do the same thing with football, baseball or basketball. just kind of make an assumption of what would have happened had the ruling been correct. or probably as a more equitable solution. just reset the game to the point where the incorrect ruling was made and replay it from there. crud, now not only will golf rounds last 12 hours but we can have an nfl season that lasts a couple of years. and probably we will get an mlb champion every decade or so. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/54 "2010-08-26T18:57:59Z")
and i kind of like this article. and it articulates my position much better than i do for myself. [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1126964/index.htm](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1126964/index.htm) ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/55 "2010-08-26T19:42:35Z")
> [@](#): > > 1-4. Points Not Covered by Rules > If any point in dispute is not covered by the Rules, the decision > should be made in accordance with equity. There is nothing in the rules about non-particpants and non-officials getting involved. The fact that such a small subset of the players are on camera, seems indicate that the equitable solution would be to not allow someone to call the tournament officials. The case with Michelle Wie required the officials to go out and measure to determine that she had dropped in the wrong location. They used a device that is illegal for the player to use to determine that she’d dropped in the wrong location. The players police themselves and their fellow competitors and get rulings from on-site officials when there is a question. Human involvement will imply that mistakes will be made but having the entire viewing audience become refs actually goes against the “gentlemen’s game” aspect of golf. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/56 "2010-08-26T20:18:03Z")
It sounds like a really dumb rule. Can anyone make a justification for it? ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/57 "2010-08-27T03:09:37Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Of course they have discretion. They’re the officials. They have discretion pretty much by definition. “We have to enforce the rules” is a chickenshit cop-out. Golf pompously touts itself as such a gentlemanly game. Know what else is gentlemanly? Discretion. Know what else is gentlemanly? When you’ve made a mistake, cop to it and accept the consequences without complaint. I don’t care at all about sports, but if you play the game, it seems to me you should follow the rules. OTOH, it also seems like allowing viewer tips may lead to difficulties. It’s already the case in other sports that the ref’s call stands no matter what, correct? But I really have no interest in how this is ultimately resolved. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310/58 "2010-08-27T03:35:06Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > Know what else is gentlemanly? When you’ve made a mistake, cop to it and accept the consequences without complaint. You mean exactly like the golfers in question did? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-fan-interference-is-this-good-or-bad/551310.md?page=2)