# True logical proof that God does NOT exist **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045 "2003-01-06T23:55:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/41 "2003-01-08T07:02:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Prove this statement: “You can’t prove a negative statement”. \*\* My point exactly. How’s that for a circular argument? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/42 "2003-01-08T11:37:41Z")
Does a God, any God, _have_ to be infallible? Seriously. Is that a requirement for a deity? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/43 "2003-01-08T11:43:49Z")
Jon Scribe wrote: > [@](#): > > How’s that for a circular argument? Rather definitive, I think! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/44 "2003-01-08T11:45:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*Does a God, any God, _have_ to be infallible? > > Seriously. Is that a requirement for a deity? \*\* For mine, it is. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/45 "2003-01-08T12:55:58Z")
> [@](#): > > logical arguments tend to assume that logic is valid. > > just like your “proof” of Alietta’s circularity. Well, we pretty much _have_ to assume that one, otherwise the whole idea of reality goes down the toilet. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/46 "2003-01-08T13:04:30Z")
Ack! No! Deductive logic is only one way to model reality. There are many epistemologies, and none is more valid than another. If you just close your eyes to the fact that deductive logic is a question-begging epistemology, built upon one of its own fallacies, then you close your eyes to reality itself, because that’s how deductive logic _really_ is. ---
**Author:** ![Pergau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7c8e57/32.png) [@Pergau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pergau)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/47 "2003-01-08T13:32:53Z")
I could move that rock, if God could make me a lever and somewhere to stand. ---
**Author:** ![SC\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/48 "2003-01-08T14:07:01Z")
Can God create a paradox so complex, even he can’t solve it? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/49 "2003-01-08T14:11:51Z")
> [@](#): > > The word “can’t” is not in his vocabulary except in the realm of evil. God can’t do wrong. So the preacher is saying god _can’t_ do everything, since god can’t do wrong even if he wants to? ---
**Author:** ![Dryga\_Yes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Dryga\_Yes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dryga_Yes)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/50 "2003-01-08T14:46:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by porkchop\_d\_clown \* > \*\*For example, your “proof” assumes that God has a physical form with physical muscles. It further assumes that this “too large rock” exists within a gravitational field - presumably generated by an even larger rock, such as a planet. But, since a planet is a rock (usually) then isn’t it bigger than the “too large” rock? So, then the rock isn’t the biggest rock that God could make - but if the rock is bigger than the planet, then the gravitational field of the rock would be greater than the field of the planet, so that any attempt to “lift” the rock would actually move the planet instead. Finally, many True Believers would say that if God wanted to move a planet sized rock that big, he’d just arrange for a star to pass close enough to pull the rock gravitationally in the direction he wanted it to go. \*\* According to general relativity, gravity is equal to acceleration. So the question could be rephrased “could God make a rock with so much momentum that even he couldn’t stop it?” ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/51 "2003-01-08T15:47:44Z")
> [@](#): > > **spooje** : Does a God, any God, have to be infallible? Seriously. Is that a requirement for a deity? > > **Libertarian** : For mine, it is. In the midst of all the jocularity and mischievousness, I find this interesting. Is this true **Lib**? Must your diety be infallible? Forgive this hijack into a serious question. ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/52 "2003-01-08T16:10:49Z")
As always, it’s up to the claimant to prove that God _does_ exist. The disbeliever doesn’t have to prove anything. If anyone is requiring proof, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/53 "2003-01-08T16:36:26Z")
if indeed there is any merit in trying to prove such a thing… ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Dickerson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Scott\_Dickerson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Dickerson)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/54 "2003-01-08T21:19:23Z")
The following is not a joke. Yesterday I posted a lengthy response to this subject here, on this thread, hit “submit reply”, and eventually actually saw it formatted as one of the listed responses. Today, it doesn’t exist. Gone forever. I am completely serious. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/55 "2003-01-08T21:36:16Z")
Well, we know **Scott** isn’t Lib’s god, then. 😃 I have a problem with the infallibility of God… Does this mean “wrong” is whatever God never does or would do, or does this mean there is some transcendent standard by which we can judge God and find him perfectly on one side? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/56 "2003-01-08T21:37:45Z")
Or rather, I have a question etc. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/57 "2003-01-08T21:51:53Z")
**erislover** , you’ve provided a perspective I didn’t consider. Namely that God could be considered infallible by definition… whatever He decides to do is “right”. I was assuming what you refer to as a transcendent standard of what is “right”. But then I tend to have a Gary-Larson-like view of God. I’d like to believe He could think to Himself “damn… _that_ was stupid; why did I ever create mosquitos.” ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/58 "2003-01-08T22:06:14Z")
Yeah, without a standard to judge god by, you kind of have a hard time indicating what the criteria for a mistake is. Mosquitos might be a good point to start, though, now that you mention it! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ramanujan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/51bf81/32.png) [@Ramanujan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramanujan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/59 "2003-01-08T23:28:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > Yeah, without a standard to judge god by, you kind of have a hard time indicating what the criteria for a mistake is. Mosquitos might be a good point to start, though, now that you mention it! 🙂 yet, if we have a standard by which to judge god, doesn’t that mean that something is greater than god? whether it be the thing that judges god, or the thing that “caused” the standard, or just the standard itself, if god is to be held to it, it must be greater than him. so how can the person who believes god is infallible define infallible any other way than by claiming it means exactly as god does or is? ---
**Author:** ![SC\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045/60 "2003-01-08T23:32:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scott Dickerson \* > \*\*The following is not a joke. > > Yesterday I posted a lengthy response to this subject here, on this thread, hit “submit reply”, and eventually actually saw it formatted as one of the listed responses. > > Today, it doesn’t exist. Gone forever. > > I am completely serious. \*\* So can God make a post on the SMDB so big, the hampsters can’t eat it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/true-logical-proof-that-god-does-not-exist/147045.md?page=4)