# Truly evil premeditated acts: Do you deal with the perpetrators of such? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 1, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893 "2019-06-01T21:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/21 "2019-06-03T02:29:20Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I’ve had a run of a particular type of patient lately. Committers of horrific premeditated murders, makers of pre-adolescent porno, inflictors in sexual torture, serial killers. This is not a new experience for me; I’ve been serving a population of troubled individuals for a while now and such extreme cases, while uncommon, are sadly not rare. > > But this latest run of men who did long-planned truly evil acts has given me pause to reflect on these extreme cases that I’ve encountered over many years. I will not name names, nor further describe their crimes. But what struck me was how damned _ordinary_ they all were, in presentation, speech, demeanor, responses. Yet these were **not** the Eichmann types of banal evil-doers; the bureaucrats who went along to get along, performing their tasks without malign intention. I’ve seen enough of those types. The type of which I write now were not cogs in a vicious machine but rather chose their actions because that’s what they wanted to do. I’m curious: is your working theory that these are human beings with brains that have this tiny little derangement in some key area of their mind but everything else is normal? Or are you going from a working theory that most human beings are capable of committing such crimes, we just aren’t given the exact right set of information inputs that would cause us to commit these behaviors? Or is your working theory that some human beings, with exactly the same brains and exactly the same data input, would choose not to commit these crimes from “free will”? Basically, a. Did nature screw them over b. Did nurture screw them over c. Did these people just decide to do something not in their long term interests because they just wanted to do bad… You know how when you see other people driving their cars, some people lift off the gas when there’s a red light up ahead, while other people drive full speed until the last few feet and use their brakes to stop hard? My thought is that this is a silly thing to ask and your degrees and knowledge in medical science should eliminate possibilities right off the bat. (c) is bogus. (b) involves them somehow not knowing that the pain of incarceration long term was a likely punishment for committing the kinds of crimes you mention. It’s one thing to commit a murder in a way you might get away with (and to have a \*\*really \*\*strong reason), but attacking someone with a chainsaw is not one of those ways. So the problem here would be in (a). Specifically, discount rate - these people have set points for discounting future punishments to an extreme degree. Which wouldn’t prevent them from “ordinary” speech since the feedback from speaking well are immediate. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/22 "2019-06-03T03:31:07Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I went to a small, Catholic, all-boys high school; about half of our instructors were priests (and there were also a few seminarians who worked as associate teachers). I later learned that one of the priests, and one of the seminarians, had both sexually abused students at our school, including several classmates of mine. > > My sister met him, briefly. She and her roommate were living in Milwaukee in the early 1990s, and were working for Manpower, doing temporary-labor jobs. The two of them were sent to the Ambrosia Chocolate Company, to help clean up the production lines prior to a health inspection. While in the lunchroom, they noticed a quiet guy who sat by himself, and stared at people – my sister and her friend teased each other by saying, “Hey, that’s your boyfriend over there!” > > A couple of months later, my sister was in their apartment, when the phone rang – her roommate was on the other end of the line. “Oh my god! Turn on the television! Remember the boyfriend from the chocolate factory? He’s a mass murderer! He EATS PEOPLE!” :eek: Does your sister post here? I swear, I saw this story directly from the source a while back, and was going to mention here that there was a Doper who had worked with him, just like there is a Doper who knew one of the guys in the infamous German cannibalism case from around 2000. My mother was a police department secretary for many years, and she broke confidentiality to tell me that a man I knew when I was a teenager was a child molester. Pretty much all of his female relatives - sisters, nieces, cousins, (grand)daughters, etc. - had been abused by him, and none of them knew about anyone else being molested until two of his grandchildren admitted to each other than he had done this, told their mother, and got the ball rolling. He couldn’t be prosecuted because there was no physical evidence, but I totally believed it, even though he did not abuse me, because all of his kids (including his son, who denied being abused or knowing about it at the time) made really bad decisions when it came to picking spouses. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/23 "2019-06-03T03:59:31Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > He couldn’t be prosecuted because there was no physical evidence, but I totally believed it, even though he did not abuse me, because all of his kids (including his son, who denied being abused or knowing about it at the time) made really bad decisions when it came to picking spouses. Not to derail the thread, but aren’t most cases of child molestation convicted via victim testimony alone? (Since there wouldn’t be much, if any, evidence otherwise) ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/24 "2019-06-03T04:41:30Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Does your sister post here? I swear, I saw this story directly from the source a while back, and was going to mention here that there was a Doper who had worked with him, just like there is a Doper who knew one of the guys in the infamous German cannibalism case from around 2000. Never heard of this case, but just googled it and all I can say is :eek: ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/25 "2019-06-03T04:54:29Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Does your sister post here? I swear, I saw this story directly from the source a while back, and was going to mention here that there was a Doper who had worked with him, just like there is a Doper who knew one of the guys in the infamous German cannibalism case from around 2000. I don’t believe that she does, though I suspect I’d shared her story here before. (Also, one of Dahmer’s defense attorneys at his trial was the older sister of one of my grade school friends.) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/26 "2019-06-03T07:40:49Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Not to derail the thread, but aren’t most cases of child molestation convicted via victim testimony alone? (Since there wouldn’t be much, if any, evidence otherwise) Yes, but I understand it is changing. Just today there was a bit in a Spanish newspaper about a kid who worked with the police to get his abuser in flagrante: that means a recording and testimony from the cops, as well as the boy’s own testimony. This is one of the consequences of the general change in attitudes about abuse, and a very good one I say. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/27 "2019-06-06T05:01:21Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Never heard of this case, but just googled it and all I can say is :eek: The first time I heard about it, I thought it was fake. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/28 "2019-06-06T15:47:07Z")
My sister was a corrections officer in Fresno, California. I asked her a few times about some of the infamous people that were in the jail during her time. Pretty much without fail she described them all as very quiet and no trouble at all. I’m sure that their behavior was somewhat affected by their imprisonment, but I was always surprised at how normal they all appeared to her. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/29 "2019-06-06T17:03:00Z")
I have a friend that lives outside of Wichita, KS. When Dennis Rader (BTK serial killer) was arrested, she was in shock, because she recognized him from about a year and half before as the man that knocked on her front door and tried to force himself into their house. Fortunately for her, her husband (a very large guy) was home and scared him enough to run away. They reported the incident at the time, but there wasn’t enough info to go on. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/30 "2019-06-06T17:06:02Z")
Most of these really horrific people can put on a good face to the public. But it’s only a persona, and their deep darkness exists and drives them to do what they do. Ann Rule knew Ted Bundy, and did not believe he was guilty until months after he was arrested. FBI serial killers unit chief Robert Resslear grew up with John Wayne Gacy, but didn’t remember him (but Gacy remembered Resslear). I knew a woman who married a man who was in prison for murder. She always claimed he didn’t do it, and helped to get him released. Four months later, he was arrested for rape and assault, and sent back to prison. The evidence was overwhelming, but he convinced her everybody was lying and the police set him up to send him back to jail. Hearing this, I cut off all contact with him. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/31 "2019-06-06T21:25:37Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I knew a woman who married a man who was in prison for murder. She always claimed he didn’t do it, and helped to get him released. Four months later, he was arrested for rape and assault, and sent back to prison. The evidence was overwhelming, but he convinced her everybody was lying and the police set him up to send him back to jail. > > Hearing this, I cut off all contact with him. Is that last word a typo? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/32 "2019-06-06T22:02:34Z")
I meant to post earlier. I volunteered for several years for a rape crisis group. In addition to the crisis counseling, we also provided victim advocates (who work with the survivor through the criminal process). I worked with people who had horrifying things done to them - systematic torture that lasted for years, as one example. Parents abused and raped their own children. There were perpetrators who also reached out directly to the counselors - to scare us, or try to get satisfaction by describing crimes. It haunted me at times while I did the work, although I was buoyed by the help I was giving others. Years later, some of those cases haunt me still. I don’t have any deep thoughts about why people commit evil acts. I don’t think they see others as human. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/33 "2019-06-06T22:08:53Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Is that last word a typo? +1 ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/34 "2019-06-07T04:55:15Z")
Fortunately, outside of a few sadistic kids that I was unfortunately acquainted with when I was a child I haven’t knowingly ran into depraved individuals. I have given the subject a bit of thought and I am not sure how much choice is really involved. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/35 "2019-06-07T13:16:44Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Is that last word a typo? Yes. I cut off all contact with her. She was renting a room from a friend of mine, and she tried to illegally take ownership of the house to help her husband get out of prison. Those people can drag you down to their level. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893/36 "2019-06-07T15:13:42Z")
> [@pool](#): > > What gets me are the “parents” you read about often enough in the news that systematically abuse, torture, and starve their own biological child. I mean I can’t fathom how anyone could hurt any child, but how could you do that to your own flesh and blood? And how can a child process and come to terms with the person that was supposed to love and care for them more than anyone treated them like an object to be abused? > > It’s not a psychological phenomenon I would want to delve in too deeply, some things are too damaging to my one’s own soul to ask those questions. From what I’ve read, most likely the abusing parents were raised the same way, and to them, that’s how you raise kids. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truly-evil-premeditated-acts-do-you-deal-with-the-perpetrators-of-such/834893.md?page=1)