# Trump accuses Obama of wiretapping him **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 4, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384 "2017-03-04T15:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/41 "2017-03-04T22:54:26Z")
Hey I’m all for investigating Obama’s criminal conduct - let’s have a special prosecutor investigate everything involving Russia (or any other possible foreign or domestic actors/hackers) and the election. Trump is truly an idiot for taking this route. He has the entire intelligence community at his disposal and is still relying on right wing talk for his intelligence reports. He has zero credibility and we really will need a special prosecutor to get to any kind of truth. ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/42 "2017-03-04T22:57:32Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Where would you find one, though? Example: I think at this time only the batshittiest of the crazies could still claim that Hillary wasn’t innocent of any wrongdoing around Benghazi. She was investigated, and fully cooperated, how many times? How did that go for her? That was a biased congressional investigation - we need an independent prosector ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/43 "2017-03-04T23:07:59Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > It depends on whether it is a formal accusation or not. This does not seem to be. > The article I cited said it was the FBI. Well, a particular branch of the FBI. > Why not? There is no wrong-doing on Trump’s part (or Sessions’ part for that matter) in respect to Russia, and they are “called out by name” by the neo-McCarthyites all the time. Thank you for responding! Are you saying that this is a casual accusation of a Watergate-level conspiracy by the sitting president of the United States? That seems, uh, ill-considered on the president’s part. Regarding the investigation, I mean who would investigate these allegations? Yes, the FBI would have been involved in the FISA request and that investigation, whatever it was. I don’t know that we know whether there has been wrong-doing on Trump or Session’s part yet. You’re the one who has the position that Obama himself won’t be personally found to have done anything wrong, so my question stands about whether Trump should have called him out personally. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/44 "2017-03-04T23:10:22Z")
It is perhaps a bias of my background, but it is hard to think that it is very helpful with what we call the moukhabarat for him to be acting like this. It would seem to me to make very dangerous antagonisms with the parties that can find and leak the information that his infamous use of the Non disclosure agreements will not protect him from… Reminds me of el morsi. As the observation of comte Boulay de la Meurthe “it is worse than a crime it is a blunder”, no? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/45 "2017-03-04T23:19:26Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Thank you for responding! > > Are you saying that this is a casual accusation of a Watergate-level conspiracy by the sitting president of the United States? That seems, uh, ill-considered on the president’s part. Sure. Add it to the list of all other “ill-considered” things you think Trump has done. > [@](#): > > Regarding the investigation, I mean who would investigate these allegations? Yes, the FBI would have been involved in the FISA request and that investigation, whatever it was. Right now, apparently it’s Trump’s chief counsel: (From NYT) “But a senior White House official said that Donald F. McGahn II, the president’s chief counsel, was working on Saturday to secure access to what Mr. McGahn believed was an order issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizing some form of surveillance related to Mr. Trump and his associates.” > [@](#): > > I don’t know that we know whether there has been wrong-doing on Trump or Session’s part yet. You’re the one who has the position that Obama himself won’t be personally found to have done anything wrong, so my question stands about whether Trump should have called him out personally. Quibbling. Yes, he should have. It was Obama’s FBI that did it. Ultimately, Obama is responsible (not necessarily legally) for what his departments do even if he did not order it himself. As I said, it could have been all been scrupulously legal. All i’s dotted and warrants filed for. Still would be a dirty trick and Trump can still call Obama and his FBI out for tapping Trump tower during the campaign. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/46 "2017-03-04T23:22:07Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > This is a pretty serious allegation from the sitting president: > RS Or it could be a nonsensical allegation from a raving lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/47 "2017-03-04T23:30:52Z")
If Trump’s claims are true and he and his cronies were wire tapped by legal (judicially authorized) means, and they have nothing to hide, why the Sturm und Drang? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/48 "2017-03-04T23:33:18Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > (From NYT) “But a senior White House official said that Donald F. McGahn II, the president’s chief counsel, was working on Saturday to secure access to what Mr. McGahn believed was an order issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizing some form of surveillance related to Mr. Trump and his associates.” So it is the Intelligence court and you think it is the scandale like your Watergate, which was the ordering direct by a President as I understand it completely outside of the legal channels. The accusation … well it is smelling of a certain despair. Perhaps it is better to try to make some illogical arguments around bankruptcy? > [@](#): > > Quibbling. Yes, he should have. It was Obama’s FBI that did it. Ah… so this Obama’s FBI, the same one that refused the comment during the election on the issues Russian relative to Trump and issued the repeated damaging statements against the President’s preferred successor, the Madame Clinton? Led by the Republican Comey who the Democratic party has been attacking for prejudice against them? That is a very funny logic indeed. I guess it must be convincing to the extreme political partisan or the desperate. To the outside observer it is … bizarrely laughable as the characterization. > [@](#): > > Trump can still call Obama and his FBI out for tapping Trump tower during the campaign. Why not? Because it is a laughable and incoherent spin that except to your political tendency will seem both ridiculous and desperate? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/49 "2017-03-04T23:39:07Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Because it is a laughable and incoherent spin that except to your political tendency will seem both ridiculous and desperate? That’s pretty clueless. Out of the country’s 130M or so voters, less than 10M are deeply enough interested in politics to wade through the facts and figure out their own opinion on the matter, based on whether the FISA warrants were fully legal, whether Obama ever ordered the warrants etc. etc. The rest will hear “Obama’s FBI ordered wiretapping of Trump Towers” and draw the conclusions directly from that statement. Especially if the statement is actually true. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/50 "2017-03-05T00:07:18Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The rest will hear “Obama’s FBI ordered wiretapping of Trump Towers” and draw the conclusions directly from that statement. This response is more silly than your lack of comprehension of the limited liabiliy. Or it is more bizarrely blind third world style political partisan. Of course how the FBI that did not help at all Madame Clinton becomes the Obama FBI outside of the narrow blind tiers monde type partisan… I read otherwise in the respected center right publication, the Hill, t[he Republican Senators are challenging the ranting](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/322379-gop-senator-demands-trump-give-more-information-behind): > [@](#): > > Sasse said if there was a legal authorization for a phone tap, “an application for surveillance exists that the court found credible.” > > “The president should ask that this full application regarding surveillance of foreign operatives or operations be made available, ideally to the full public, and at a bare minimum to the U.S. Senate,” Sasse said. > > Sasse echoed remarks from fellow Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.), who said Saturday he was “very worried” about Trump’s claim that Obama ordered a wiretap of Trump Tower before the November election. > > Graham said that if a wiretap was illegal, it would be “the biggest political scandal since Watergate.” But he also said that if the Obama administration was able to legally obtain a warrant to monitor Trump’s campaign, that too would be a scandal. > > … > > The New York Times, citing a senior White House official, reported that Trump’s chief counsel Don McGahn was working Saturday to secure access to what he believed to be an order issued by the FISA Court authorizing some form of surveillance linked to Trump and those close to him. > > The official didn’t offer evidence supporting the idea that such an order exists, the Times reported. The newspaper noted that if such an order existed, it would be “highly unusual” for the White House to order that the Justice Department turn it over, given law enforcement’s historical independence. It is again useful to quote the comte Boulay de la Meurthe _“it is worse than a crime it is a blunder.”_ this strange demarche. (but it is a very entertaining TV show, if not that you have nuclear weapons) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/51 "2017-03-05T00:13:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I wish. > > The very, very obvious danger is a sequence like this in the near future: > > Thursday: Conservative radio show says country X is invading and attacking an American military base in friendly to America nation Y. \* > > Friday: Breitbart reports this > > Saturday: Trump orders strikes, country X demonstrates to their allies how unfair the strike was and all retaliate. > > Move right along. Nothing to see here after the nuclear missiles start to fly… No, the three step process is only used for domestic affairs. For foreign affairs, Trump has an additional step: on Saturday, he calls Moscow and asks Putin what he should do. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/52 "2017-03-05T01:09:01Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > That’s pretty clueless. Out of the country’s 130M or so voters, less than 10M are deeply enough interested in politics to wade through the facts and figure out their own opinion on the matter, based on whether the FISA warrants were fully legal, whether Obama ever ordered the warrants etc. etc. > > The rest will hear “Obama’s FBI ordered wiretapping of Trump Towers” and draw the conclusions directly from that statement. Especially if the statement is actually true. If such wiretapping occurred, is it at all possible that it was justified and reasonable and had no political motive? Or is it impossible that Trump has done anything wrong, in this instance or any other? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/53 "2017-03-05T01:26:42Z")
Why does Trump still think presidents can actually order wiretaps? You’d think he would have already tried this himself and found out otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/54 "2017-03-05T01:36:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If such wiretapping occurred, is it at all possible that it was justified and reasonable and had no political motive? Sure. It is also possible (in fact, I’m 100% certain) that all the contacts between Sessions and the Russians were completely above board. Yet he’s being smeared, tirelessly, by your side. See how that works? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/55 "2017-03-05T01:52:06Z")
Sessions lied under oath about the meetings. Even if the meetings were completely above board Sessions deserves a healthy ration of shit for lying about them. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/56 "2017-03-05T01:54:21Z")
There is a small, small chance that a top-secret [Fisa Court](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Court) could have approved wiretaps against some person(s) in Trumps entourage as part of a criminal investigation – such as related to Russian dealings, or something else. These courts have I think 11 members. If something like this did happen, 1) it would never have been initiated by the president; and 2) with 11 members, it would be next to impossible to have something improper approved. It sounds like Trump just woke up steaming this morning and decided President Obama had personally ordered this against him. Maybe those voices are speaking to him again. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/57 "2017-03-05T02:00:50Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Sessions lied under oath about the meetings. Even if the meetings were completely above board Sessions deserves a healthy ration of shit for lying about them. Nope. In the context that the questions were asked, Sessions answered truthfully. Here was the question that was asked: "CNN just published a story alleging that the intelligence community provided documents to the president-elect last week that included information that quote, ‘Russian operatives claimed to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump.’ These documents also allegedly say quote, ‘There was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump’s surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government.’ “Now, again, I’m telling you this as it’s coming out, so you know. But if it’s true, it’s obviously extremely serious and if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?” It was clearly about some kind of collusion between Trump campaign and “Russian government”. Not about routine meetings between Senators and foreign officials (which happen all the time). Claiming that this is perjury is purely a smear campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/58 "2017-03-05T02:12:14Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Nope. In the context that the questions were asked, Sessions answered truthfully… > > Claiming that this is perjury is purely a smear campaign. Wrong thread. This one is for Trump’s ravings about wiretaps. Surely there’s a better place to defend the lies told by the Soon-To-Be-Ex-Attorney General… ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/59 "2017-03-05T02:16:27Z")
Here’s the OP asking politely that this doesn’t turn into a Sessions thread and that it stays focused on Trump’s statements regarding allegations of criminal activity against Obama personally and, I guess, his administration. I’m not a mod, so feel free to continue this hijack, but I’m hoping this gets back on track. Thank you for your consideration. ETA: Sorry, I didn’t see **Bridget Burke** ’s post before posting mine. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/60 "2017-03-05T02:27:47Z")
Sessions isn’t related to this topic. Please cease the Sessions hijack. [/moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384.md?page=4)