# Trump accuses Obama of wiretapping him **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 4, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384 "2017-03-04T15:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/601 "2017-03-24T03:19:13Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > So - let’s say Obama White House is briefed in an intelligence report that Trump said this and this to a foreign leader he spoke to. Yes, the information was “incidentally” gathered. For me, that is equivalent to Trump being under surveillance. Because if he was under surveillance, the result would be exactly the same. I do not see the equivalence you’re claiming. If the government is monitoring Vladimir Putin’s phone calls then Putin is the target of the surveillance. If Donald Trump then calls up Putin and their phone call is recorded, it’s not the same result as Trump being under surveillance. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/602 "2017-03-24T04:18:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I do not see the equivalence you’re claiming. If the government is monitoring Vladimir Putin’s phone calls then Putin is the target of the surveillance. If Donald Trump then calls up Putin and their phone call is recorded, it’s not the same result as Trump being under surveillance. Since the results are identical (Trump’s conversation is made available to the government) that is equivalent. That’s why there are rules in place about keeping the information about the identity of the other side of the conversation private. Those rules were apparently broken. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/603 "2017-03-24T04:19:47Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > I appreciate you letting me know that you are completely divorced from reality. It will help me immensely in deciding whether to expand the effort to read what you write. Another personal slam. Unmoderated. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/604 "2017-03-24T04:22:41Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Another personal slam. Unmoderated. Did you report it? Are you aware the mod(s) may not be online and it takes time for a response? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/605 "2017-03-24T05:03:34Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Another personal slam. Unmoderated. Here’s the thing, comments like this are not helpful for a few reasons which I will not enumerate. In the future I suggest reporting something if you suspect a rule violation. I guarantee if you report it the post in question will be looked at, though depending on the time it could take between a few minutes to a few hours. We don’t have an SLA for response unfortunately but I’m comfortable with our practice. > [@jshore](#): > > I appreciate you letting me know that you are completely divorced from reality. It will help me immensely in deciding whether to expand the effort to read what you write. **jshore** , this is a warning for personal insults. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/606 "2017-03-24T08:54:23Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Anyone who had ties to Russia Trump has gotten rid of. On his Russian ties in general, it’s being investigated. I’ve never said or will say it should **not** be investigated. It should be, as well as the wiretapping allegations. > > The difference between you and me is what those conclusions will be. Only time will tell. And the sooner the better. Assuming that your first statement is true, which I won’t do, all it shows is the appearance of rectitude. It doesn’t change that those ties existed, nor does it erase whatever uses they were put to or who knew about them and when. > [@](#): > > \*\*\* The bolded part by the way I don’t have the slightest idea what that means or is referring to. I should have added ‘language from’ to that last. [How The Trump Campaign Weakened The Republican Platform On Aid To Ukraine](http://www.npr.org/2016/08/06/488876597/how-the-trump-campaign-weakened-the-republican-platform-on-aid-to-ukraine) ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/607 "2017-03-24T14:09:25Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Do these reports show that the Trump campaign were the target? Or knowing what Trump was doing a result of the Trump campaign being in contact with people who were under surveillance? ‘Obama was spying on Trump through an agency that he controls, but it’s OK because he wasn’t actually targeting Trump directly,’ is really a pretty damning statement, I didn’t expect something that direct when whole thing started. I don’t see that it’s actually unreasonable at all to term that situation ‘Obama wiretapping Trump.’ I would also say that using the powers of the office to spy on political opponents is definitely Nixonian, even if there’s a fig leaf of legality (rubber stamp from a secret court that approves 99.97% of warrants) and a thin veil of deniability (well, he wasn’t the target!). Originally I thought this was going to be a big smoke cloud that Trump would use to his advantage, but this might seriously hurt how Obama is remembered. Especially with the quick, flat denial Obama gave when confronted about it initially. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/608 "2017-03-24T14:22:58Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > ‘Obama was spying on Trump through an agency that he controls, but it’s OK because he wasn’t actually targeting Trump directly,’ is really a pretty damning statement, . . . Oh, please. If you get caught in a speed trap, does that mean that the chief of police is conspiring to harass you, personally? Claiming that your ticket is proof that the chief is out to get you would make you sound like . . . well, like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/609 "2017-03-24T14:23:19Z")
**Pantastic** – would you say that Obama wiretapped Hillary Clinton while she was Secretary of State? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/610 "2017-03-24T14:31:23Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > ‘Obama was spying on Trump through an agency that he controls, but it’s OK because he wasn’t actually targeting Trump directly,’ is really a pretty damning statement, I didn’t expect something that direct when whole thing started… I find this attitude to be very bizarre. Let me give you a hypothetical, and note, I’m not accusing Trump, for example, of taking bribes, it’s just a hypothetical: There is a mafia don who is under surveillance by the FBI. A politician running for office is caught on camera or on the phone taking bribes (or discussing the taking of bribes). Who do you think this is damning: A. The mafia don B. The politician C. The FBI D. The president who the FBI reports to You seem to be saying that C and D are the damned parties, but most people would say that it’s A and B. Further, no one who doesn’t have an axe to grind would say that B was under surveillance. Can you explain what you mean? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/611 "2017-03-24T14:32:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **Pantastic** – would you say that Obama wiretapped Hillary Clinton while she was Secretary of State? Is Trump currently wire-tapping Obama? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/612 "2017-03-24T14:35:46Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I find this attitude to be very bizarre. Let me give you a hypothetical, and note, I’m not accusing Trump, for example, of taking bribes, it’s just a hypothetical: > > There is a mafia don who is under surveillance by the FBI. A politician running for office is caught on camera or on the phone taking bribes (or discussing the taking of bribes). Who do you think this is damning: > > A. The mafia don > B. The politician > C. The FBI > D. The president who the FBI reports to In your example the answer is A+B. Now this hypothetical: a politician is “caught” on the phone making conversation with someone that FBI or NSA is monitoring, with no criminal content whatsoever, and discusses something he is going to do in the campaign. The FBI/NSA widely disseminates the conversation in its reports, including the part with the campaign info, and including the politician’s name, possibly to the White House. Whom do you think it is damning? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/613 "2017-03-24T14:38:40Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Is Trump currently wire-tapping Obama? :eek: By the faulty logic of the Trump defenders in this thread, of course he is. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/614 "2017-03-24T14:43:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > By the faulty logic of the Trump defenders in this thread, of course he is. This may be just the break Trump’s investigators in Hawaii are looking for! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/615 "2017-03-24T14:44:21Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > In your example the answer is A+B. > > Now this hypothetical: a politician is “caught” on the phone making conversation with someone that FBI or NSA is monitoring, with no criminal content whatsoever, and discusses something he is going to do in the campaign. The FBI/NSA widely disseminates the conversation in its reports, including the part with the campaign info, and including the politician’s name, possibly to the White House. > > Whom do you think it is damning? Is this hypothetical related to any actual events? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/616 "2017-03-24T14:45:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is this hypothetical related to any actual events? Yes. According to Nunes that kind of thing is what happened. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/617 "2017-03-24T14:47:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is this hypothetical related to any actual events? Does it matter? People with great legal minds are saying …um… things. That’s the point here. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/618 "2017-03-24T14:47:17Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yes. According to Nunes that kind of thing is what happened. Just moments ago, Nunes again said on live TV that there was no wiretapping of Trump Tower. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/619 "2017-03-24T14:48:11Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Just moments ago, Nunes again said on live TV that there was no wiretapping of Trump Tower. That’s right. No one came into Trump Tower in the middle of the night and fiddled with any wires. How is that relevant to what I said? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/620 "2017-03-24T14:48:30Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yes. According to Nunes that kind of thing is what happened. Nunes has given at least 3 different stories now. Even you can’t actually be sure what the hell Nunes is saying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384.md?page=32)