# Trump accuses Obama of wiretapping him **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 4, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384 "2017-03-04T15:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/801 "2017-04-02T16:13:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That the remedy is worse that the disease has not dawned on Trump and minions yet. Knowing how shady the people Trump did choose for his cabinet I do think that the unmasking was done to please the president. Forgetting that by doing so a lot of secret information was leaked and enemies or criminals have been forewarned. This does remind me of a lot of the moves that the mini me of Trump, Joe Arpaio, did in Arizona to make his contempt of court case to be declared a mistrial. I forgot to add that the bum failed miserably in his efforts to make his contempt of court case to be declared a mistrial. In court Arapaio tossed the bombshell that he had put the wife of the judge in his case under investigation. A clear attempt at making his own trail fail as his logic was to force the judge into a conflict of interest situation and expecting the judge to recuse himself or to declare a mistrial. Or Joe Arpaio was an idiot. Already he had made the previous judge to recuse himself but the courts realized what the game Joe was playing. This is important IMHO because it shows the kind of people Trump and his staffers are. Trump and Arpaio joined hips during the past election. And yes, to do so Trump **willfully** ignored what Joe Arpaio was doing already in court. It was all in the open then and the mainstream media on the whole also forgot to inform the American people of who the friends of Trump were and what they were doing. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/802 "2017-04-02T16:15:15Z")
**Okrahoma** , I notice you seem to be interpreting Trump’s claims in the most charitable way possible. Why? Here’s an important note about that tweet: various Trump supporters did _not_ interpret that in that way. A large number of them jumped to exactly the conclusion Trump was hoping they would jump to: “Obama specifically targeted Trump. He probably did this to get dirt on him”. The statements mildened somewhat after the spin and damage control came in (although I’m sure you can still find some fucking morons who hold to that interpretation). So why take it at its most charitable interpretation? Why give the guy the benefit of the doubt? When did that become reasonable when talking about Trump? Particularly given that if we _do_ go by the charitable interpretation, what he’s complaining about is either a non-issue or quite damning to the Trump team. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/803 "2017-04-02T16:24:27Z")
> [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > C’mon, everybody knows where this is going. > > He’ll say he has incontrovertible proof but can’t/won’t provide it, because whatever. When the audit is done. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/804 "2017-04-02T16:30:46Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Which article are you talking about? None of them seem to have anything at all to do with “if A and B are talking about C and D tells E about the A&B conversation; then C is being surveilled by D.” > > Your definition is beyond crazy; it is patently obvious it is only being made for partisan political purposes. Oh, I can think of another reason. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/805 "2017-04-02T17:44:56Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So why take it at its most charitable interpretation? Why give the guy the benefit of the doubt? When did that become reasonable when talking about Trump? Particularly given that if we _do_ go by the charitable interpretation, what he’s complaining about is either a non-issue or quite damning to the Trump team. Someone (possibly, from the latest revelations, as highly placed as Brenner) committing a felony in order to damage the President politically is “a non-issue”? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/806 "2017-04-02T17:51:50Z")
After editing period: Brennan, of course. Not Brenner. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/807 "2017-04-02T18:03:09Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Yes. Your article said Trump was not the target of surveillance. That was already stipulated. It didn’t say he was not “under surveillance”. You keep insisting it did. Maybe you don’t understand what it said? Aside from a desperate desire to see if this thread can be kept going for another couple of weeks, do you have an actual point to make, here? Trump claimed that president Obama ordered someone (‘cause Trump never says who) to spy on Trump. That is the topic of this thread. If Trump was not the target of any surveillance in which his or his cronies’ conversations were captured, then it is clear that Trump was not spied upon due to any orders from Obama. In other words, Trump lied again. Everything else in your posts is tap dancing to imply evil behavior for which no one–particularly Trump’s minions, and certainly not you–have provided evidence. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/808 "2017-04-02T18:32:15Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Someone (possibly, from the latest revelations, as highly placed as Brenner) committing a felony in order to damage the President politically is “a non-issue”? It is because sources like World (nut) News Daily, Breitbart and others start their report with “apparently” and it is one of the oldest weasel words the right wing media uses to make a mountain out of a mole hill. But of course it was pointed out that it is more likely that with that crew the administration has that it is more likely that they did commit a felony\*\* just to cover a dumb lie from Trump\*\*. Of course it is an issue, but not as the Trump followers wish it was. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/809 "2017-04-02T20:28:53Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > “Unmasking” seems to be the conservative/ Fox News talking point of the weekend. I don’t get it. > … The emphasis on the supposed “unmasking” issue\* serves two purposes: [ul] [li]It deflects from the fact that Trump lied about Obama surveilling him–it’s an attempt to make the Other Side the villain, here; and[/li] [li]It reminds anyone tempted to blow the whistle on anything Trump or his associates do, that It’s A Felony And You Will Rot In Prison If You Do It (in other words, the discussion is intended to intimidate and silence).[/li][/ul] \*Do we have anyone’s word besides that of Devin Nunes that unmasking did actually occur? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/810 "2017-04-02T20:34:06Z")
Mitch McConnell on Meet the Press: > [@](#): > > CHUCK TODD: > > Have you seen any evidence-- you’re part of this-- there’s a lot of gangs when it comes to describing members of the U.S. Senate. There is a Gang of Eight, and you’re a member of one of these gangs that gets high level classified intelligence briefings, the same ones that the intelligence committee chairs get. You’re one of those folks that get it. Have you gotten any intelligence information that indicates the Obama administration somehow applied, asked for surveillance of the Trump transition, the Trump team, any Trump associates? > > SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL: > > No. > > CHUCK TODD: > > Under nothing, not even a hint of this, not anything? > > ​​SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL:Well, not yet. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/811 "2017-04-02T20:47:37Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Someone (possibly, from the latest revelations, as highly placed as Brenner) committing a felony in order to damage the President politically is “a non-issue”? I guess I haven’t quite understood your point. Never mind then. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/812 "2017-04-02T23:22:49Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > \*Do we have anyone’s word besides that of Devin Nunes that unmasking did actually occur? No. Nothing but speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/813 "2017-04-03T18:27:10Z")
Depends on who you call “anyone”. [Top Obama Adviser Sought Names of Trump Associates in Intel](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-04-03/top-obama-adviser-sought-names-of-trump-associates-in-intel) > [@](#): > > White House lawyers last month learned that the former national security adviser Susan Rice requested the identities of U.S. persons in raw intelligence reports on dozens of occasions that connect to the Donald Trump transition and campaign, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter. > [@](#): > > The intelligence reports were summaries of monitored conversations – primarily between foreign officials discussing the Trump transition, but also in some cases direct contact between members of the Trump team and monitored foreign officials. One U.S. official familiar with the reports said they contained valuable political information on the Trump transition such as whom the Trump team was meeting, the views of Trump associates on foreign policy matters and plans for the incoming administration. > [@](#): > > Rice’s requests to unmask the names of Trump transition officials do not vindicate Trump’s own tweets from March 4 in which he accused Obama of illegally tapping Trump Tower. There remains no evidence to support that claim. > > But Rice’s multiple requests to learn the identities of Trump officials discussed in intelligence reports during the transition period does highlight a longstanding concern for civil liberties advocates about U.S. surveillance programs. The standard for senior officials to learn the names of U.S. persons incidentally collected is that it must have some foreign intelligence value, a standard that can apply to almost anything. This suggests Rice’s unmasking requests were likely within the law. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/814 "2017-04-03T18:36:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Depends on who you call “anyone”. > > [Top Obama Adviser Sought Names of Trump Associates in Intel](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-04-03/top-obama-adviser-sought-names-of-trump-associates-in-intel) I thought anonymous sources were _bad._ ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/815 "2017-04-03T18:40:58Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Depends on who you call “anyone”. > > [Top Obama Adviser Sought Names of Trump Associates in Intel](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-04-03/top-obama-adviser-sought-names-of-trump-associates-in-intel) So in the course of FBI wiretapping of criminal or espionage investigations, Trump associates were caught on tape dealing with the subjects of the investigations. And the then-President and his advisors found out about this and wanted details of the investigations. And how is this a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/816 "2017-04-03T18:45:31Z")
Just to be clear, “unmasking” is entirely different than “leaking”, right? Rice “unmasked” names in that she wanted to know the names… not that she leaked the names, right? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/817 "2017-04-03T18:59:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Just to be clear, “unmasking” is entirely different than “leaking”, right? Rice “unmasked” names in that she wanted to know the names… not that she leaked the names, right? Yeah, she just asked “who are these foreigners talking about?” There’s nothing abnormal about this but there’ll be someone along shortly to try and make a scandal out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/818 "2017-04-03T19:21:08Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Yes, but is there any indication of dealings with foreign powers that are in any way improper or beyond normal diplomatic conventions? Their own shame, shown by lying about it. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/819 "2017-04-03T19:45:45Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > So in the course of FBI wiretapping of criminal or espionage investigations, Trump associates were caught on tape dealing with the subjects of the investigations. And the then-President and his advisors found out about this and wanted details of the investigations. And how is this a bad thing? From my reading of this, it’s not the FBI, it’s probably the CIA doing their usual spy stuff on foreign representatives. Those foreigners talked to someone about the Trump campaign, or in some cases talked to Trump campaign people themselves. Susan Rice saw the reports of those conversations, and asked to see the names of the US citizens who took part (names which were redacted). The question is whether Rice was wanting to know this because she was monitoring for collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, or whether she was just wanting inside information on the Trump campaign to help out Obama. With only the info we currently have, the Trump people can claim the latter. If she was just wanting inside info on the Trump campaign, that doesn’t exactly match what Trump tweeted, but to my mind it’s pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/820 "2017-04-03T19:54:51Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > The question is whether Rice was wanting to know this because she was monitoring for collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, or whether she was just wanting inside information on the Trump campaign to help out Obama. With only the info we currently have, the Trump people can claim the latter. If she was just wanting inside info on the Trump campaign, that doesn’t exactly match what Trump tweeted, but to my mind it’s pretty close. If it is true that she was the one that authorized the “unmasking”, that means she lied about it when asked recently about it on PBS Newshour: Woodruff: "We spoke earlier this evening with former Obama White House National Security Adviser Susan Rice, the author of that piece. It was her first interview since leaving the White House. I began by asking about the allegations leveled today by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes that Trump transition officials, including the president, may have been swept up in surveillance of foreigners at the end of the Obama administration. Rice: “I know nothing about this. I was surprised to see reports from Chairman Nunes on that count today.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384.md?page=42)