# Trump accuses Obama of wiretapping him **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 4, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384 "2017-03-04T15:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/821 "2017-04-03T20:04:39Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > From my reading of this, it’s not the FBI, it’s probably the CIA doing their usual spy stuff on foreign representatives. Those foreigners talked to someone about the Trump campaign, or in some cases talked to Trump campaign people themselves. Susan Rice saw the reports of those conversations, and asked to see the names of the US citizens who took part (names which were redacted). > > The question is whether Rice was wanting to know this because she was monitoring for collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, or whether she was just wanting inside information on the Trump campaign to help out Obama. With only the info we currently have, the Trump people can claim the latter. If she was just wanting inside info on the Trump campaign, that doesn’t exactly match what Trump tweeted, but to my mind it’s pretty close. Perhaps a legal person can comment here, but I’m not sure if monitoring for collusion between Trump and the Russians automatically qualifies as a reason for unmasking the names. As I understand it, suspicion of crimes by American citizens does not qualify, and it’s unclear how that applies to colluding with foreign powers. I’m wondering if it would depend on whether they’re trying to better understand the actions of the Russians or trying to better understand the actions of the Trump people. A fine line, admittedly. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/822 "2017-04-03T20:57:27Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Depends on who you call “anyone”. > > [Top Obama Adviser Sought Names of Trump Associates in Intel](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-04-03/top-obama-adviser-sought-names-of-trump-associates-in-intel) As Nat Sec adviser, Rice was required and expected to get the names as a routine part of her job. Unmasking in of itself is not illegal at all. > > > Eli Lake @EliLake > [@](#): > > This continues to be a sideshow story at best. There are plenty of valid reasons why Trump team members’ names could have been unmasked. > > [@](#): > > understand how dumb is Trump’s ‘defense’: The govt wanted to figure out which of people were caught up in scandal of century. a defense?! > [@](#): > > Starting w fact there was serious investigation into manipulation of our election during which Trump was entirely in sync with Russians These are twitter accounts of 2 Republicans, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/823 "2017-04-03T21:01:39Z")
> > [@](#): > > I truly despise Susan Rice but her asking #NSA to unmask USPs in SIGINT reports is utterly normal. > > There is no scandal here. > [@](#): > > OF COURSE the National Security Advisor had questions about SIGINT regarding Trump’s foreign ties. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/824 "2017-04-03T21:06:46Z")
Granted, this irrational, dishonest tactic is smart from a persuasion play point of view. (see Scott Adams). Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty, and go to great lengths to make people think investigation of espionage = spying. It works on the uninformed, which is most people, including some posters in this thread. To state the obvious, Russian tampering in a presidential election is a violation of US national security. Part of the job of the National Security Adviser is to find out what’s going on with the tampering, who’s involved, and tell the President. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/825 "2017-04-03T21:16:33Z")
> **[We now have a better idea who's behind 'unmasking' Trump officials' contact...](https://www.businessinsider.com/susan-rice-trump-unmask-intelligence-wiretap-2017-4)** > > Former National Security Adviser Susan Rice tried to learn who the transition officials whose conversations with foreign officials were incidentally collected were. > [@](#): > > National-security experts say Rice’s reported requests to identify who was speaking with the foreign officials before Trump was inaugurated were neither unusual nor against the law — especially if, as Lake reported, the foreign officials being monitored were discussing “valuable political information” that required the identity of the people they were speaking to, or about, to be uncovered. > > “The identities of US persons may be released under two circumstances: 1) the identity is needed to make sense of the intercept; 2) if a crime is involved in the conversation,” said Robert Deitz, a former senior counselor to the CIA director and former general counsel at the National Security Agency. > > “Any senior official who receives the underlying intelligence may request these identities,” Deitz said, noting that while “the bar for obtaining the identity is not particularly high, it must come from a senior official, and the reason cannot simply be raw curiosity.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/826 "2017-04-03T21:48:32Z")
Well, these deflections usually indicate that something else is [about to drop](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/blackwater-founder-held-secret-seychelles-meeting-to-establish-trump-putin-back-channel/2017/04/03/95908a08-1648-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.549c49ac9ca6). Remember that Erik Prince is Betsy Devos’ brother, by coincidence. And that Betsy Devos’ husband owns Spectrum Health, which [happened to be, by coincidence,](http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/) the other group linked up in the server connection between Trump Tower and Russian banks. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/827 "2017-04-03T21:53:28Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Well, these deflections usually indicate that something else is [about to drop](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/blackwater-founder-held-secret-seychelles-meeting-to-establish-trump-putin-back-channel/2017/04/03/95908a08-1648-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.549c49ac9ca6). > > Remember that Erik Prince is Betsy Devos’ brother, by coincidence. And that Betsy Devos’ husband owns Spectrum Health, which [happened to be, by coincidence,](http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/) the other group linked up in the server connection between Trump Tower and Russian banks. A long and [comprehensive dossier on Trump Administration - Russian connections](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/trump-russia/?utm_term=.7514660510b2). ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/828 "2017-04-03T22:25:30Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Well, these deflections usually indicate that something else is [about to drop](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/blackwater-founder-held-secret-seychelles-meeting-to-establish-trump-putin-back-channel/2017/04/03/95908a08-1648-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.549c49ac9ca6). > > Remember that Erik Prince is Betsy Devos’ brother, by coincidence. And that Betsy Devos’ husband owns Spectrum Health, which [happened to be, by coincidence,](http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/) the other group linked up in the server connection between Trump Tower and Russian banks. Spot on. Obscure the damaging facts with clouds of disinformation. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/829 "2017-04-03T22:28:50Z")
[Putin Derangement Syndrome Arrives](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-putin-derangement-syndrome-arrives-w474771) > [@](#): > > Whatever the truth about Trump and Russia, the speculation surrounding it has become a dangerous case of mass hysteria ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/830 "2017-04-03T22:41:34Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [Putin Derangement Syndrome Arrives](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-putin-derangement-syndrome-arrives-w474771) As I stated. I’m sure these are all, every single one, incredible coincidences. I mean, Trump must be the unluckiest person alive that these coincidences keep piling up, right? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/831 "2017-04-03T22:48:51Z")
Thus spoke every conspiracy theorist ever … ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/832 "2017-04-03T22:54:06Z")
Best part of this story is the unfettered honesty in this quote: “I wouldn’t be surprised at all,” said Barry Faure, the Seychelles secretary of state for foreign affairs. “The Seychelles is the kind of place where you can have a good time away from the eyes of the media. That’s even printed in our tourism marketing. But I guess this time you smelled something.” ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/833 "2017-04-04T00:26:10Z")
I’d say the Trump administration is just a little bit pregnant. > **[A Former Trump Adviser Met With A Russian Spy](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alimwatkins/a-former-trump-adviser-met-with-a-russian-spy)** > > Carter Page told BuzzFeed News that he had been in contact with at least one Russian spy working undercover out of Moscow’s UN office in 2013. > [@](#): > > Page confirmed to BuzzFeed News on Monday that he is “Male-1” in the court filing, and said he had been in contact with Podobnyy, who was working at the time at Moscow’s UN office in New York City under diplomatic cover, although he was really an SVR agent. Pressed on details of his contact with Podobnyy, Page said their interactions did not include anything sensitive. > > According to the complaint, Page met Podobnyy in January 2013 at an energy conference in New York. It says that from January to June of that year, Page met with, emailed with and “provided documents to [Podobnyy] about the energy business.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/834 "2017-04-04T02:10:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Their own shame, shown by lying about it. I wouldn’t call it shame. Trump has not an iota of that, nor does anyone else in his administration that I can see. More like fear (of prosecution). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/835 "2017-04-04T09:39:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Thus spoke every conspiracy theorist ever … And everyone who, you know, actually had a case. Actual conspiracies do exist. Just ask Carl Bernstein. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/836 "2017-04-04T10:40:07Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And everyone who, you know, actually had a case. Actual conspiracies do exist. Just ask Carl Bernstein. Indeed. “Conspiracy theorists” are mocked because they take a tiny amount of circumstantial evidence and use it to deny a theory that has mountains of evidence. Here, there’s a lot of evidence–so far, mostly or entirely circumstantial–that folks in Trump’s campaign were coordinating with Russian operatives. Are folks using this mound of evidence to overturn **any** evidence to the contrary? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/837 "2017-04-04T12:39:14Z")
Note: these are not “anonymous sources”. Rice was lying about not knowing anything about this just 12 days ago in an interview. > **[Former US Attorney: Susan Rice Ordered Spy Agencies To Produce ‘Detailed...](https://dailycaller.com/2017/04/03/susan-rice-ordered-spy-agencies-to-produce-detailed-spreadsheets-involving-trump/)** > > Susan Rice ordered U.S. spy agencies to produce “What was produced by the intelligence community at the request of Ms. Rice were detailed spreadsheets of intercepted phone calls with unmasked Trump associates in perfectly legal conversations with individuals,” diGenova told The Daily Caller News Foundation Investigative Group Monday. “The overheard conversations involved no illegal activity by anybody of the Trump associates, or anyone they were speaking with,” diGenova said. “In short, the only apparent illegal activity was the unmasking of the people in the calls.” … Michael Doran, former NSC senior director, told TheDCNF Monday that “somebody blew a hole in the wall between national security secrets and partisan politics.” This “was a stream of information that was supposed to be hermetically sealed from politics and the Obama administration found a way to blow a hole in that wall.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/838 "2017-04-04T12:58:00Z")
How do those people, who have been out of government for a decade to decades, know what Susan Rice ordered? It seems like you’re suggesting they are credible because they are not anonymous sources. Is Mark Levine credible because he is not an anonymous source? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/839 "2017-04-04T13:02:19Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > “What was produced by the intelligence community at the request of Ms. Rice were detailed spreadsheets of intercepted phone calls with unmasked Trump associates in perfectly legal conversations with individuals,” diGenova told The Daily Caller News Foundation Investigative Group Monday That article failed to mention how diGenova knows this information. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/840 "2017-04-04T13:04:01Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Note: these are not “anonymous sources”. Rice was lying about not knowing anything about this just 12 days ago in an interview. > > [Former US Attorney: Susan Rice Ordered Spy Agencies To Produce ‘Detailed Spreadsheets’ Involving Trump | The Daily Caller](http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/03/susan-rice-ordered-spy-agencies-to-produce-detailed-spreadsheets-involving-trump/) > > “What was produced by the intelligence community at the request of Ms. Rice were detailed spreadsheets of intercepted phone calls with unmasked Trump associates in perfectly legal conversations with individuals,” diGenova told The Daily Caller News Foundation Investigative Group Monday. > > “The overheard conversations involved no illegal activity by anybody of the Trump associates, or anyone they were speaking with,” diGenova said. “In short, the only apparent illegal activity was the unmasking of the people in the calls.” > … > Michael Doran, former NSC senior director, told TheDCNF Monday that “somebody blew a hole in the wall between national security secrets and partisan politics.” This “was a stream of information that was supposed to be hermetically sealed from politics and the Obama administration found a way to blow a hole in that wall.” Yes, we can take these sources as facts, and Rice as a liar, since obviously any time someone says something that conflicts with a liberal, it must be the liberal who is lying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384.md?page=43)