# Trump accuses Obama of wiretapping him **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 4, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384 "2017-03-04T15:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1061 "2017-09-21T15:10:52Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite for the bolded part? Do you have any? Does this count: [Donald Trump just flat-out lied about Trump Tower wiretapping](http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/05/politics/trump-doj-wiretap/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1062 "2017-09-21T15:11:29Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite for the bolded part? Do you have any? You could have stopped at “lame stream media”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1063 "2017-09-21T15:17:13Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The lame stream media certainly wasted no time declaring Trump’s claim of wiretapping to be totally false/a lie/campaign shenanigans/something that hurt their feelings/etc… Here’s a news story on March 5th from the “lame stream media.” What’s inaccurate about it? > **[FBI director James Comey asked Justice Department to refute Trump's...](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-director-james-comey-asked-justice-department-refute/story?id=45927629)** > > The FBI Director was concerned the president's tweets were inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1064 "2017-09-21T15:25:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Does this count: [Donald Trump just flat-out lied about Trump Tower wiretapping](http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/05/politics/trump-doj-wiretap/index.html) No. For one thing, that story is dated 5 September, just a couple of weeks ago. You were talking about when Trump first tweeted about the allegations, which was back in March. Two: the “just” in that headline has nothing to do with time, as in “it just happened”. Did you even read your own cite? > [@](#): > > Turns out, he was lying. > That’s the conclusion the Justice Department reached Friday night in a court filing; “Both FBI and NSD (National Security Division) confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described by the March 4, 2017 tweets,” the filing read. Feel free to try again to support your assertion, tho. ETA: (Ddamn; I can’t make a short list on the Dope without remembering Opal. I just can’t do it.) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1065 "2017-09-21T15:34:47Z")
Let’s also keep in mind that **doorhinge** is one of those guys who criticizes the media for running stories that they later retract (e.g., there’s been a handful of cases of the press reporting on a suspected hate crime, but later they retract the story when it becomes clear it is a hoax). He has criticized the media for, in essence, running a story that they ran before it was conclusively proven true beyond a reasonable doubt. But for Trump, he obviously uses a different ethical standard, in which the media should not criticize the baselessness of his tweets because some day in the future maybe it will be shown that the tweet wasn’t 100% bullshit. The hypocrisy of his standards for judging the media, as opposed to judging his political allies, is unbounded. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1066 "2017-09-21T15:46:05Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No. > > For one thing, that story is dated 5 September, just a couple of weeks ago. You were talking about when Trump first tweeted about the allegations, which was back in March. > > Two: the “just” in that headline has nothing to do with time, as in “it just happened”. > > Did you even read your own cite? > > Feel free to try again to support your assertion, tho. > > ETA: (Ddamn; I can’t make a short list on the Dope without remembering Opal. I just can’t do it.) I thought you were looking for a cite where the media called Trumps accusation a lie? Also, it’s not my assertion, but I thought the news stories at the time were pretty clear that Trump was just making shit up. Didn’t realize it was a controversial issue that pretty much everyone believed that Trump was making shit up. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1067 "2017-09-21T16:50:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I thought the news stories at the time were pretty clear that Trump was just making shit up. They did phrase it carefully, but clearly - “Mr. Trump offered no evidence that …” was the usual formation, and factually correct. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1068 "2017-09-21T17:10:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They did phrase it carefully, but clearly - “Mr. Trump offered no evidence that …” was the usual formation, and factually correct. I agree, but it seemed like **Snowboarder Bo** needed some sites for that, that’s all. I was surprised about that position. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1069 "2017-09-21T17:40:00Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened, underline added) > > “Imagine”? That is why I’m in favor of investigations. Hold an investigation (or investigations) and let the chips fall where they may. Many people seem to be grasping at strawmen in order to imagine a conclusion they approve of. The lame stream media certainly wasted no time declaring Trump’s claim of wiretapping to be totally false/a lie/campaign shenanigans/something that hurt their feelings/etc… As the investigation continues, as more information becomes available, I expect the true facts/actual truth to be uncovered. Eventually. Then, you should also support investigations into whether Trump and Putin secretly got married, or whether Trump personally voted 3 million times. Trumps allegation (that he was personally targeted for political reasons) has as much evidence for it as the other ones. Maybe instead of shortening my post and concentrating on a handful of words, you should address the post in toto. Or, continue to shorten posts and only attack some part you consider to be a weak part. It’s a free country, but I won’t engage with you if you do that. Also, hahahaha. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1070 "2017-09-22T18:34:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite for the bolded part? Do you have any? While I prefer to see the results of an actual/real investigation into serious matters, Hannity provided a nice montage of the usual suspects dismissing Trump’s claim based on nothing other than their personal feelings/bias. > **[Brian Stelter | Mediaite](https://www.mediaite.com/tag/brian-stelter/)** > > Brian Stelter is a media reporter. He was born on September 3rd, 1985. He hosted CNN Sunday show Reliable Sources and served as the network’s chief media correspondent for nine years before he was ousted in 2022. He previously worked for the New York... The Fox News host played a montage of clips featuring CNN’s Jake Tapper and Brian Stelter, ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos and MSNBC’s Joy Reid that dismissed Trump’s claim. > **[Brian Stelter | Mediaite](https://www.mediaite.com/tag/brian-stelter/)** > > Brian Stelter is a media reporter. He was born on September 3rd, 1985. He hosted CNN Sunday show Reliable Sources and served as the network’s chief media correspondent for nine years before he was ousted in 2022. He previously worked for the New York... What happened to the Who, What, Why, When, and Where that used to be the standard of credible journalists? Has the lame stream media’s opinions/feelings become the new standard for journalism? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1071 "2017-09-22T18:38:41Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Then, you should also support investigations into whether Trump and Putin secretly got married, or whether Trump personally voted 3 million times. Trumps allegation (that he was personally targeted for political reasons) has as much evidence for it as the other ones. Maybe instead of shortening my post and concentrating on a handful of words, you should address the post in toto. Or, continue to shorten posts and only attack some part you consider to be a weak part. It’s a free country, but I won’t engage with you if you do that. > > Also, hahahaha. Hahahaha. So what are you waiting for? Do you expect someone else to start these investigations for you? It is a free country. Get to work. I’ll support your effort. I can hardly wait to see your results. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1072 "2017-09-22T18:40:53Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. So what are you waiting for? Do you expect someone else to start these investigations for you? It is a free country. Get to work. I’ll support your effort. I can hardly wait to see your results. Thanks for addressing my earlier post in full. Bye! Also, hahahaha. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1073 "2017-09-22T18:45:22Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > While I prefer to see the results of an actual/real investigation into serious matters, Hannity provided a nice montage of the usual suspects dismissing Trump’s claim based on nothing other than their personal feelings/bias. > > [Brian Stelter | Mediaite](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/hannity-slams-media-says-manafort-story-vindicates-trump-youve-been-exposed-for-the-frauds-you-are/) > > The Fox News host played a montage of clips featuring CNN’s Jake Tapper and Brian Stelter, ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos and MSNBC’s Joy Reid that dismissed Trump’s claim. I see nothing factually wrong with anything said in that part of the clip. On the other hand, I think Hannity is deranged to assert that Trump has been proven right. > [@](#): > > What happened to the Who, What, Why, When, and Where that used to be the standard of credible journalists? Has the lame stream media’s opinions/feelings become the new standard for journalism? A decent number of the snippets you’re criticizing did include that information. For example, Stephanopoulos quoting the FBI, DOJ, and outgoing DNI that nobody was tapping Trump’s phones. But I have a question for you: what happened to Presidents backing up what they say? Trump has never said where he got his crazy ideas from, and meanwhile his own Administration has been saying for the last several months that his phones were not tappppped. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1074 "2017-09-22T18:59:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Here’s a news story on March 5th from the “lame stream media.” What’s inaccurate about it? > > [FBI director James Comey asked Justice Department to refute Trump's wiretapping claims, sources say - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-director-james-comey-asked-justice-department-refute/story?id=45927629) According to your linked article - _FBI Director James Comey asked the Justice Department to publicly refute President Trump’s assertion that his predecessor, President Obama, ordered a wiretap of Trump’s phones prior to the November 2016 election, government sources familiar with Comey’s thinking confirm to ABC News._ Did (now ex) FBI Director Comey ask the JD to refute the assertion, or did a government source(s) familiar with Comey’s thinking (“Comey’s thinking”???) ask someone to do something? What happened to the Who, What, Where, Why, and When of responsible journalism? again from your linked article - _An Obama spokesperson yesterday denied the former president’s involvement, saying:_ “An Obama spokesperson”? What happened to quoting Obama directly? Is that now considered to be too much trouble for media outlets to commit to? Once more from your linked article - _This isn’t the first time Comey, who has led the FBI since 2013, has been thrust into the spotlight over election-related issues._ Is this why FBI Director Comey is now ex-FBI Director Comey? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1075 "2017-09-22T19:03:05Z")
Again, what’s inaccurate about the story I linked to? Asking a bunch of phony questions isn’t responsive to the simple question. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1076 "2017-09-22T19:11:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I see nothing factually wrong with anything said in that part of the clip. What factual information of the “wiretapping” incident(s) was supplied by the alleged journalists? _Somebody said yes. Somebody said no. No digging required. The President we don’t like is wrong. Case closed?_ Not exactly an outstanding journalistic effort, was it? That’s why I’m in favor of investigations. Actual investigations, not lame stream media opinions/biases. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1077 "2017-09-22T19:20:10Z")
Wow, that’s a pretty high bar you’ve set there. You want journalists to provide factual information to prove that something didn’t happen, for which there is no evidence that it happened; and reporting that law enforcement officials denying that the thing ever happened is not counted as factual information about the event. Have you ever criticized Trump on this board for not providing any evidence to show that he was wiretapped, as he claimed? I’d like to see links to any of those posts of yours. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1078 "2017-09-22T20:00:09Z")
“Alleged” journalists. Are they graduates of the Trump University School of Journalism? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1079 "2017-09-22T20:23:41Z")
Alleged university, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384/1080 "2017-09-22T20:54:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Wow, that’s a pretty high bar you’ve set there. You want journalists to provide factual information to prove that something didn’t happen, for which there is no evidence that it happened; and reporting that law enforcement officials denying that the thing ever happened is not counted as factual information about the event. > > **Have you ever criticized Trump on this board for not providing any evidence to show that he was wiretapped, as he claimed? I’d like to see links to any of those posts of yours.** This seems to me to be an extremely reasonable request. I, too, would like to see such links. If a poster is going to hold the claims of journalists to one standard, and the claims of the person defended to an entirely different standard, then perhaps that fact about the poster should be made plain in all relevant interactions (i.e. posts about the claims made by either journalists or Trump). (emphasis in quotation is mine) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-accuses-obama-of-wiretapping-him/781384.md?page=55)