# Trump ally and conservative pundit Charlie Kirk shot at Utah event \[now reported deceased, same date 10SEP2025\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 10, 2025, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916 "2025-09-10T19:04:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/881 "2025-09-13T13:45:50Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > every prominent shooting incident was carried out by someone who is mentally ill. I think the commission of an irrational act provides strong evidence that the person carrying out the act had some degree of mental illness, diagnosed or otherwise. Even if it is just depression, I’m willing to make that leap of faith. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/882 "2025-09-13T13:47:42Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I’m willing to make that leap of faith. How wonderful for you. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/883 "2025-09-13T13:49:39Z")
Even without Trump fascism we have to wear the black triangle. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/884 "2025-09-13T13:50:41Z")
Also wonderful of you to make the leap that anyone acknowledging the likely reality that these folks have some level of untreated mental illness is somehow _stagmatising mental illness as a whole_. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/885 "2025-09-13T13:50:43Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > How wonderful for you I, myself, have had severe depression since my childhood. It’s only a mix of medications that keep me from suicidal ideation. I don’t think of “mental illness” as a stigma. It’s a thing, just like diabetes. It’s biological, and often expresses itself in very unhealthy ways. Calling it out when I see it shouldn’t he a bad thing. ETA: I see @steronz ninja’d me with a similar point. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/886 "2025-09-13T13:50:46Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I think the commission of an irrational act provides strong evidence that the person carrying out the act had some degree of mental illness, diagnosed or otherwise. So, people that do not have a mental illness never commit irrational acts? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/887 "2025-09-13T13:51:37Z")
Get that strawman! ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/888 "2025-09-13T13:56:52Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > people that do not have a mental illness never commit irrational acts? No. And I never said that. What I said was that doing something like this provides strong evidence that this person was mentally ill (even if it was “just” that he was suicidal and didn’t care about life). I mean, maybe Kirk slept with his girlfriend, and this was revenge. Maybe he did it to gain entrance into an online gang. Maybe irs was a spur of the moment thing brought about by drug intoxication. I don’t actually know. I may never know. But I don’t think it’s a big leap to presume - at this time - that the perpetrator had some degree of mental illness. Most assassins do. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/889 "2025-09-13T13:59:16Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I never said that. Do you see that thing at the end of my sentence? Does it mean anything to you? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/890 "2025-09-13T14:00:01Z")
And by logical extension, most people with mental illnesses are also assassins. Did you know we have 60 million assassinators (the estimated number of adults in the US with some diagnosed mentally illness) running around this country? Crazy! /s, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/891 "2025-09-13T14:00:57Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Do you see that thing at the end of my sentence? Are you referring to a question mark? By “I never said that”, I’m answering “no”. Here, I’ll go back and edit it now. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/892 "2025-09-13T14:03:11Z")
The assassins of Sergei Kirov and Huey P. Long were not deranged individuals, just ordinary men made suicidally despondent in societies that were themselves nuthouses. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/893 "2025-09-13T14:03:56Z")
Would these acts be rational or irrational? Kirk slept with his girlfriend, and this was revenge. He did it to gain entrance into an online gang. Its was a spur of the moment thing brought about by drug intoxication. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/894 "2025-09-13T14:06:26Z")
Or: he hated him. Is killing someone you hate simply because you hate them irrational? ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/895 "2025-09-13T14:08:07Z")
This will sound crazy to someone not familiar with the right-wing influencer ecosystem, but Kirk had a realistic (though not overwhelmingly likely) chance of being Trump’s successor after he’s out of the picture (not my assessment, it’s an idea that had traction on that side of the political spectrum). So the crabs-in-a-bucket theory fits very well with the idea of one extremist faction trying to prevent another extremist faction from gaining outsized dominance or funding. So, trump _is_ behind it! I knew it. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/896 "2025-09-13T14:10:19Z")
You don’t need to open the DSM to find a name for this kind of behavior. I suspect the motive for this is just an extreme example of “Doing it for the lulz.” ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/897 "2025-09-13T14:15:09Z")
From a cost/benefit analysis it’s hard to argue otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/898 "2025-09-13T14:15:37Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Would these acts be rational or irrational? > > Kirk slept with his girlfriend, and this was revenge. > He did it to gain entrance into an online gang. > Its was a spur of the moment thing brought about by drug intoxication. > [@Alessan](#): > > Is killing someone you hate simply because you hate them irrational? Most murdering is personal. You are most likely to be killed by somebody you know. And I wouldn’t go so far as to say that just because you kill somebody you are “mentally ill” But a public assassination, where the killer likely had no personal connection to the victim, and where the chance of getting away with it is basically zilch, and where the chance you in fact die before you are apprehended are pretty high, then we are dealing with an entirely different scenario. I will reaffirm again that I don’t know the actual reasons this happened. My statements are my opinions alone, and they may very well be wrong (unlike the Fonz, I can say it). But as long as we’re spitballing here on the Dope, I’m going to say that this looks like the actions of a mentally ill person. And, to reiterate, that’s not to imply that mental illness makes one violent. But it might help explain what evidence we do see at this time. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/899 "2025-09-13T14:17:41Z")
Trump, fragment of internal monologue\*: “Friend? I prefer friends that don’t die when they get shot, like me.” \*a few milliseconds of coherent thought tumbling out of the rambling chaos and unfiltered emotion ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2025, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/900 "2025-09-13T14:21:47Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > But a public assassination, where the killer likely had no personal connection to the victim, and where the chance of getting away with it is basically zilch, and where the chance you in fact die before you are apprehended are pretty high, then we are dealing with an entirely different scenario. > > But as long as we’re spitballing here on the Dope, I’m going to say that this looks like the actions of a mentally ill person. On the basis of your first paragraph, would you spitball that [Claus von Stauffenberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_July_plot) was a mentally ill person? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916.md?page=46)