# Trump ally and conservative pundit Charlie Kirk shot at Utah event \[now reported deceased, same date 10SEP2025\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 10, 2025, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916 "2025-09-10T19:04:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 89
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1761 "2025-09-26T13:05:13Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > He is as consistent as baby poop. To be fair to the poster, all types of baby poop are still shit. My sense is this particular type, despite its extraordinary gestation period, is still meconium. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1762 "2025-09-26T13:17:12Z")
In Oklahoma [Roy Walters](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/ryan-walters-resign-ending-scandal-plagued-tenure-oklahoma-schools-chi-rcna233700) steps down: _“Last month, Walters created a new [“America First” teacher certification test](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/oklahoma-schools-chief-faces-investigation-adult-content-seen-board-me-rcna221674) for educators who move to Oklahoma from blue states, intended to ensure that they have the proper ideology before entering classrooms; and this month, he announced a plan [to establish chapters](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/oklahoma-schools-chief-finding-new-ways-impose-conservative-agenda-stu-rcna233470) of Charlie Kirk’s Turning Point USA organization at every high school in the state.”_ His demise removes the immediate threat of Turning Point in OK schools. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1763 "2025-09-26T13:27:09Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Just because you can wear me down with your repetitive bullshit doesn’t mean I ran away but enjoy your moment anyway. I know you were giddy in anticipation and I do not want to take that away from you. To recap: _you_ brought up “America’s Christian roots” in the context of Kirk and then kept doubling down on that bullshit until called on it, and now are declaring the topic a “nothingburger” that you “don’t want to litigate here” because you got your ass handed to you by actual facts. In other words, you’re crying and running away like the weak and pathetic troll whose flimsy right-wing talking points crumble at the slightest touch you are. But keep telling yourself you’re winning - it will be just as obvious a lie as pretty much everything else you post. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1764 "2025-09-26T13:30:24Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Sure, the founders were Christians, but it’s pretty evident that they wanted a clear distinction between religion and government. _Some of_ the founders were Christians. Thomas Jefferson notably thought belief in the divinity of Christ to be something to be grown out of, and literally rewrote the NT to focus on Jesus’s “philosophy” while removing all the “son of God” stuff. And Madison saw firsthand in Virginia what having a state religion resulted in, which is why he was so vehemently opposed to it. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1765 "2025-09-26T13:33:53Z")
C’mon Pedro, post those debate ending David Barton quotes you have. Don’t hold back, end this debate! ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1766 "2025-09-26T13:34:17Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Most Christian values aren’t really any different than basic morality. Don’t kill people, don’t steal, don’t lie. Not really any different than the values of any other culture or religion. Sure, the founders were Christians, but it’s pretty evident that they wanted a clear distinction between religion and government. If they wanted the US to be a Christian nation, they could have created an amendment that said something like “A belief in Christianity, being necessary to maintain the morality of the state, shall be imposed on every citizen”. Even so, it’s fine for people like Kirk to try to expand Christianity. Being in a nation with freedom of religion means all religions are free to try to gain followers. If they get into power, they may create laws that are in line with their religion. But that doesn’t mean that Christianity has a right to be the official state religion just because the founders happened to mostly be Christians. Totally agree. It’s very well put. I also think you are making my case for me. There is nothing here that I’m aware of that Charlie Kirk would have disagreed with, despite the feeble attempt by some to call him a Christian nationalist (in the sense of wanting a non-secular state). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1767 "2025-09-26T13:39:19Z")
He never claimed to want a non-secular state but he did spout Christian nationalist rhetoric when it served his purpose. Which supports the view that his statements of faith were made in service to his personal and political ambitions rather than the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1768 "2025-09-26T13:39:21Z")
> **[Charlie Kirk: "There is no separation of church and state"](https://www.mediamatters.org/charlie-kirk/charlie-kirk-there-no-separation-church-and-state)** This was pointed in the last cite I made, twice posted already. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1769 "2025-09-26T13:39:44Z")
As a gay person, I would like to object to “Christian values.” Black people might helpfully point out how the Bible was used to justify slavery in America’s history. Neither of those things were part of early Christianity, but modern Christianity has a poor track record when it gets institutional power. No thank you: keep your church and its “values” out of my state. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1770 "2025-09-26T13:43:47Z")
No, no, see… it wouldn’t be a Christian state, it would be a “non-secular” state governed by Christians who want the ten commandments posted in schools, and the Bible taught in schools. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1771 "2025-09-26T13:44:48Z")
The US was built on 18th-century Enlightenment values, not “Christian” ones. That there is some overlap doesn’t change that, any more than the overlap with, say, Buddhist or Hindu tenets would. I’m never quite sure whether to count Thomas Paine as an official Founding Father or not (it’s like trying to decide who counts as a “Disney Princess”) but his influence on the creation of American democracy is undeniable. ETA: Kirk is correct that the phrase “separation of church and state” doesn’t appear in the Constitution but so what? The First Amendment does. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1772 "2025-09-26T13:44:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > He is as consistent as baby poop. To be fair to the poster, all types of baby poop are still shit. My sense is this particular type, despite its extraordinary gestation period, is still meuconium > **[Baby poop: Pictures of healthy and unhealthy stools](https://www.babycenter.com/baby-poop-photos)** > > There's a wide range of normal baby poop colors and textures that you might find in your little one's diaper. Let these real photos guide you. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1773 "2025-09-26T13:53:43Z")
> **[Charlie Kirk accuses Rep. Jasmine Crockett of being part of an "attempt to...](https://www.mediamatters.org/charlie-kirk/charlie-kirk-accuses-rep-jasmine-crockett-being-part-attempt-eliminate-white)** As for the right 's attempt at whitewashing Kirk, it is really a big effort to avoid dealing with what he said. > KIRK: The great replacement of white people is far more sinister than any redistricting project. That is at the core of the Democrat project, at the core. And Jasmine Crockett is just some circus act in that entire operation. But it’s deathly serious. She — you shouldn’t take what she says seriously. It’s just a joke. What she represents is very serious, which is the continue attempt to eliminate the white population in this country. > **[The Racist 'Great Replacement' Conspiracy Theory Explained](https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/racist-great-replacement-conspiracy-theory-explained/)** > > The man who allegedly shot dead at least 10 people at a Buffalo, New York, supermarket on Saturday may have been preoccupied by the so-called “great replacement” conspiracy theory. A sprawling propaganda document released online under his name in... ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1774 "2025-09-26T13:57:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > He never claimed to want a non-secular state but he did spout Christian nationalist rhetoric when it served his purpose So true. I offer this quote from Kirk, which you can find in this [NPR article](https://www.npr.org/2025/09/21/nx-s1-5545640/how-religion-shaped-charlie-kirks-politics-and-his-legacy). You can also listen to him saying this at about the 3:22 mark of the embedded audio recording on the page. > The body politic of America was so Christian and was so Protestant that our form and structure of government was built for the people that believed in Christ, our Lord. One of the reasons we’re living through a constitutional crisis is that we no longer have a Christian nation, but we have a Christian form of government, and they’re incompatible. So you cannot have liberty if you do not have a Christian population. **So you cannot have liberty if you do not have a Christian population.** Perhaps not Christian nationalism but damn close. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1775 "2025-09-26T14:00:11Z")
So he didn’t want a Christian government, he wanted a nation of Christian people. How did he propose to achieve that, one wonders… ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1776 "2025-09-26T14:03:39Z")
Well, we’re currently cleansing the country of Catholics, who ARE NOT CHRISTIANS! (Just channeling my inner Protestant bigot there) ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1777 "2025-09-26T14:12:58Z")
When is the “Christ” part of “Christian Nationalism” supposed to kick in? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1778 "2025-09-26T14:23:15Z")
When He comes back. And now, thanks to D&D we can kill that woke lich properly. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1779 "2025-09-26T14:38:25Z")
When He comes back, if what it says in the book is right, a whole fuckload of Christian nationalists are going to have a very bad not good at all day. That never ends. “But Lord, we…” “Get away from Me. I do not know you.” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2025, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916/1780 "2025-09-26T14:40:11Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > OK I misunderstood then. I thought you were against allowing opening Turning Point USA chapters in schools. Turns out it was just some bullshit excuse to call your political opponents Nazis. You just want to pile more violent rhetoric on top of this. Carry on then. I count four lies here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916.md?page=88) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-ally-and-conservative-pundit-charlie-kirk-shot-at-utah-event-now-reported-deceased-same-date-10sep2025/1022916.md?page=90)