# Trump and a feeling of momentum for impeachment **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 16, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785 "2017-05-16T19:40:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/161 "2017-05-19T13:37:56Z")
The president’s approval rating have been sliding recently. > **[How Popular Is Donald Trump?](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/)** > > FiveThirtyEight is tracking Donald Trump’s approval ratings throughout his presidency. He’s at a new low. He’s bounced back before, but I think he hasn’t reached the bottom of this slide yet. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/162 "2017-05-19T13:54:08Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > The letter from Elijah Cummings to Mike Pence came four days after Flynn’s lobbying efforts had already made the news. > > So he can try the “Oh, well, you know the Post Office, amirite?” line if he wants but Robert Mueller is unlikely to fall for it. No reason why the rest of us should, either. You left out this part. > [@](#): > > But Rep. Elijah Cummings, the ranking member of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, sent Pence a letter on November 18\*\* requesting more information about the potential conflicts of interest posed by Flynn’s lobbying work. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/163 "2017-05-19T14:20:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The day after the special prosecutor was named, [Chaffetz decided to bail out](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/jason-chaffetz-set-to-announce-he-will-leave-congress-in-june/2017/05/18/45488fae-3bdd-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.d4884fdd84fc). Koinkydink? It’s been hinted that Chaffetz would resign since way before the Comey firing. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/164 "2017-05-19T14:50:35Z")
There’s rumors swirling that the person who leaked that “Putin pays Trump” tape a few days ago, is none other than [Evan McMullin](http://thehill.com/homenews/house/334209-ryan-more-audio-leaks-cause-for-concern), which is of particular concern because he was in a lot of meetings. And there might be a lot of recordings. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/165 "2017-05-19T14:59:55Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > There’s rumors swirling that the person who leaked that “Putin pays Trump” tape a few days ago, is none other than [Evan McMullin](http://thehill.com/homenews/house/334209-ryan-more-audio-leaks-cause-for-concern), which is of particular concern because he was in a lot of meetings. And there might be a lot of recordings. That’s interesting. If true, he was a more committed #NeverTrumper than I realized. ETA: in an age where Trump is hounding the FBI to find and prosecute leakers, he’s not a very successful leaker if everyone knows it was him. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/166 "2017-05-19T15:09:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s interesting. If true, he was a more committed #NeverTrumper than I realized. > > ETA: in an age where Trump is hounding the FBI to find and prosecute leakers, he’s not a very successful leaker if everyone knows it was him. He’s been pretty vocal. I’m not sure (if it is him, obviously) that he’d want it to be 100% secret. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/167 "2017-05-19T15:46:38Z")
If Pence is really in trouble too, that affects the timing of impeachment for both of them. If the Republicans are going to do it at all, they’d need to complete the process before the 2018 elections, so their guy (Ryan or otherwise) gets the Presidency. Otherwise, the next President gets chosen by the then-majority House Democratic Caucus, via about 1 minute of the Speakership. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/168 "2017-05-19T15:56:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If Pence is really in trouble too … What? Did I miss some big news about the VP? What prompted this line? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/169 "2017-05-19T16:03:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What? Did I miss some big news about the VP? What prompted this line? The fact that he obviously and demonstrably knew about Flynn’s problems while he is pretending to not have known. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/170 "2017-05-19T16:12:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s interesting. If true, he was a more committed #NeverTrumper than I realized. > > ETA: in an age where Trump is hounding the FBI to find and prosecute leakers, he’s not a very successful leaker if everyone knows it was him. That’s not the kind of leak the FBI would care about. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/171 "2017-05-19T16:18:37Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The fact that he obviously and demonstrably knew about Flynn’s problems while he is pretending to not have known. Didn’t Flynn get fired because he lied to Pence? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/172 "2017-05-19T16:42:38Z")
Yeah, but that’s pretty hard to believe considering we now know that Sally Yates warned the transition team, led by Pence, about him. I guess you could somehow argue that this news never got to Pence, except that [Elijah Cummings](http://www.businessinsider.com/elijah-cummings-letter-to-mike-pence-about-flynn-turkey-lobbying-2017-3) directly wrote a letter to Pence also warning him. So, sure, maybe Flynn lied, but he lied about something that Pence already knew about, so Pence can’t play dumb here. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/173 "2017-05-19T16:48:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If Pence is really in trouble too, that affects the timing of impeachment for both of them. If the Republicans are going to do it at all, they’d need to complete the process before the 2018 elections, so their guy (Ryan or otherwise) gets the Presidency. Otherwise, the next President gets chosen by the then-majority House Democratic Caucus, via about 1 minute of the Speakership. It depends how it times out, though. I think we’re a very long way from impeachment and I suspect Pence has lots of plausible denialbility, but let’s suppose he doesn’t, and the heat keeps going up and he resigns in November. But Trump isn’t yet gone. Your scenario only plays out that way of Trump and Pence are removed/quit/die at essentially the same time. But what if Pence goes first? Well, now the GOP can summon Gerald Ford 2.0 under the auspices of the 25th Amendment. The GOP would present Trump with some likable face unconnected to the Russians for him to nominate, vote her or him in, and kaboom; you’ve got a GOP replacement for Trump through January 19, 2021, just as Ford replaced Agnew. Same thing if it happens in reverse; if Trump pitches a shit fit this August and quits, Pence becomes President, and you have to backfill his job in accordance with the 25th Amendment. So the likable face is presented to Congress, swiftly voted in, and you’ve got Pence’s replacement ready to roll. Trust me; if the GOP has to nominate a new VP, the candidate will be vetted for ties to Russia so carefully they won’t even have a bottle of Russian dressing in their fridge. Why, I bet there’s GOP congresspeople right now who are in the early stages of maneuvering just in case the GOP needs a new Gerald Ford. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/174 "2017-05-19T17:17:48Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Yeah, but that’s pretty hard to believe considering we now know that Sally Yates warned the transition team, led by Pence, about him. I guess you could somehow argue that this news never got to Pence, except that [Elijah Cummings](http://www.businessinsider.com/elijah-cummings-letter-to-mike-pence-about-flynn-turkey-lobbying-2017-3) directly wrote a letter to Pence also warning him. So, sure, maybe Flynn lied, but he lied about something that Pence already knew about, so Pence can’t play dumb here. I’m still confused, what exactly do you think is Pence’s impeachable high crime / misdemeanor? ETA: surely it’s something more than “he knew the same thing Elijah Cummings did”, right? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/175 "2017-05-19T17:18:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Didn’t Flynn get fired because he lied to Pence? Flynn didn’t get fired until his involvement with foreign governments became public knowledge via the media. People are suggesting Pence knew about it earlier but chose to ignore it until it became a public issue. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/176 "2017-05-19T17:26:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Flynn didn’t get fired until his involvement with foreign governments became public knowledge via the media. People are suggesting Pence knew about it earlier but chose to ignore it until it became a public issue. What are they suggesting the VP should have done about it? Was not doing whatever they wanted him to do, at the time they wanted him to, a criminal act? An ethical lapse? A moral failing? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/177 "2017-05-19T17:39:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What are they suggesting the VP should have done about it? Was not doing whatever they wanted him to do, at the time they wanted him to, a criminal act? An ethical lapse? A moral failing? 2 out of 3? It just means that whatever you thought of pence before this, you know he is not suitable for the job or worthy of support now. On a relative scale how does “hillary email crisis!” stack up to “letting a foreign agent work in the oval office”? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/178 "2017-05-19T17:47:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What are they suggesting the VP should have done about it? Was not doing whatever they wanted him to do, at the time they wanted him to, a criminal act? An ethical lapse? A moral failing? He was head of the transition team and for you to make that argument you have to believe the Flynn information was purposely kept from Pence by Trump, McGann, Flynn, and others. And that Pence didn’t have his people do his own searching. And that Pence was unaware that Flynn was canned by Obama. Incompetent, unwilling dupe, or accomplice… that’s your option. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/179 "2017-05-19T17:50:13Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > 2 out of 3? It just means that whatever you thought of pence before this, you know he is not suitable for the job or worthy of support now. > > On a relative scale how does “hillary email crisis!” stack up to "letting a foreign agent work in the oval office? I rather expected an answer to the first question before we got to the last three. I’m not sure he’ll lose my support over what “people are suggesting”, but I’d at least like to hear what they wanted him to do before I make any judgments about who is or is not suitable for the job and worthy of support now. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785/180 "2017-05-19T18:02:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I rather expected an answer to the first question before we got to the last three. I’m not sure he’ll lose my support over what “people are suggesting”, but I’d at least like to hear what they wanted him to do before I make any judgments about who is or is not suitable for the job and worthy of support now. Let me make sure I understand you. The allegation is that Pence knew or should have known that Flynn was in the pay of Russia or Turkey before he was given a position at the White House. Are you asking what Pence should have done next? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-a-feeling-of-momentum-for-impeachment/786785.md?page=10)