# Trump and Melania test positive for COVID-19 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 2, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010 "2020-10-02T05:07:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/845 "2020-10-04T18:18:59Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Does exif data always show when the pictures were taken, or could it be when they were transmitted to the press? > **[How a Photo's Hidden 'Exif' Data Exposes Your Personal Information - Consumer...](https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics-computers/privacy/what-can-you-tell-from-photo-exif-data-a2386546443/)** > > A photo's embedded Exif data can give away your location information. CR tells you how social media and photo-storage sites handle the data, and what you can do about it. > Exif data travels with the photo—from the camera to your hard drive or a website. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/846 "2020-10-04T18:20:21Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Does exif data always show when the pictures were taken, or could it be when they were transmitted to the press? As @running_coach shows, they do show when it was taken. As with any digital file, it can certainly be manipulated (I have to occasionally add or change EXIF data for processing), but it takes effort, and won’t be altered just by transmitting a photo elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/847 "2020-10-04T18:21:39Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Are you confusing osteopaths with naturopaths? I’ve had a couple of osteopaths as my primary care docs. There’s nothing “holistic” about their approach to medicine. You can google on what they say about themselves. They’re very proud of being more “holistic”. It probably doesn’t mean the same as what naturopaths mean, but to me it’s a red-flag that signals bullshit ahead. Either you practice medicine or you don’t. “Holistic” doesn’t add much significance. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/848 "2020-10-04T18:21:56Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Are you confusing osteopaths with naturopaths? I’ve had a couple of osteopaths as my primary care docs. There’s nothing “holistic” about their approach to medicine. In the rest of the world an “osteopath” is simply a practitioner of the pseudoscience of osteopathic manipulation. Only in the U.S. has this strange process occurred where the label has bizarrely been retained as a qualification for (pretty much) regular doctors, where virtually all of the pseudoscience has been replaced by regular science-based medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/849 "2020-10-04T18:38:41Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > As with any digital file, it can certainly be manipulated (I have to occasionally add or change EXIF data for processing), but it takes effort, and won’t be altered just by transmitting a photo elsewhere. If I wipe the exif on a picture, email it to my social media director, and she edits it a little (crop it, change the tint, etc.), does new exif data enter the file? ---
**Author:** ![rejemy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@rejemy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rejemy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/850 "2020-10-04T18:49:12Z")
No, there would simply be no EXIF data in that case. EXIF data isn’t an ironclad guarantee, but you pretty much have to deliberately tamper with it to change or remove what the camera created when the picture was taken. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/851 "2020-10-04T18:49:37Z")
Can we drop the osteopath criticism? The only difference between an MD and a DO is that the latter gets additional training in osteopathic manipulation which may have some medical benefits. They take the exact same boards and go to the exact same residencies as MDs. Yes they are more likely to take a holistic view and to go into primary care but they are as fully qualified and scientifically based an any licensed physician. They are not naturopaths or chiropractors or alternative physicians in any way. Psychobunny, MD ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/852 "2020-10-04T18:52:15Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > Can we drop the osteopath criticism? Or at least take it to another thread? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/853 "2020-10-04T18:53:21Z")
> [@rejemy](#): > > No, there would simply be no EXIF data in that case. EXIF data isn’t an ironclad guarantee, but you pretty much have to deliberately tamper with it to change or remove what the camera created when the picture was taken. You’re mistaken. Many image editors stamp EXIF data into a file. I just tried with Photoshop, pasting pixels into a new blank image and saving it, and it adds EXIF. What would be different from an the original photo is there would be no camera specific metadata, e.g. exposure time, use of flash, etc, and no geolocation data. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/854 "2020-10-04T18:57:24Z")
Let me make just one correction then I will drop the osteopath thing. I stated above that they take the same Boards and I was incorrect. I just double checked and they do have separate exams for many specialties but they are considered identical for licensing purposes. ---
**Author:** ![rejemy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@rejemy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rejemy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/855 "2020-10-04T18:58:31Z")
Are you sure? I just did the same thing with Photoshop and the resulting JPEG has no EXIF data at all. It has regular file created/modified metadata, but no EXIF data. Though it’s true, if you copied and pasted pixels from one image to a new image, that would wipe out the EXIF data without deliberate tampering. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/856 "2020-10-04T19:03:12Z")
Yes, I’m quite sure. Here’s an image of the EXIF data from my copy/paste pixel file: [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/xisw0TL.jpeg?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/Ca5nNcn) And here’s the exif from an unedited iphone photo: [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/aplwpw8.jpeg?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/qdtGch7) (I snipped the image because I didn’t want geolocation or other personal data in it) You can see there’s quite a lot of meta about the camera itself that isn’t in the ‘stripped’ file ---
**Author:** ![rejemy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@rejemy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rejemy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/857 "2020-10-04T19:07:57Z")
Interesting, I didn’t know Photoshop did that. Thanks! I don’t think that changes the overall point though. I suspect in this case Photoshop is adding EXIF data because you started with a blank document, so Photoshop sort of “is the camera” for that photo, and can initialize the EXIF data however it wants. It would be pretty big bug though for Photoshop, or any photo editing software, to change the EXIF “time taken” field willy-nilly every time the photo is edited, because the entire point of EXIF data is to preserve the conditions under which the original photo was taken. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/858 "2020-10-04T19:08:51Z")
Moderating: “Oh silly me. I thought this was a place setup to fight ignorance.” This is totally inappropriate. Formal warning. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/859 "2020-10-04T19:16:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Interesting, I didn’t know Photoshop did that. Thanks! I don’t think that changes the overall point though. I suspect in this case Photoshop is adding EXIF data because you started with a blank document, so Photoshop sort of “is the camera” for that photo, and can initialize the EXIF data however it wants. It would be pretty big bug though for Photoshop, or any photo editing software, to change the EXIF “time taken” field willy-nilly every time the photo is edited, because the entire point of EXIF data is to preserve the conditions under which the original photo was taken. And you’re right, that’s not what happens. Here’s an edited photo’s (iphone shot, edited in Photoshop) EXIF: [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/jRAlKMw.jpeg?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/VNOdpQh) You can see that there is actually more than one date: the date shot, the date digitized (I guess for photo scanners) and the last date the file was ‘touched’. The camera data makes it through unscathed, but you can tell the photo was edited. This image was shot on Sept 21 and edited today. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/860 "2020-10-04T19:17:47Z")
I just listened on C-Span sattelite radio to the Sunday talk shows, all but CNN’s. I got Meet The Press, The ABC one and the Chris Wallace one. And unless I missed it, not a single mention of Melania and “How’s her condition?” Lot’s of Trump talk, zero Trump wife talk. (Oops, I think I missed the CBS show, do they do one?) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/861 "2020-10-04T19:19:36Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > In the rest of the world an “osteopath” is … Well, this here is the United States pardner, and the physician in question is a physician who happens to have a D.O. after their name instead on and M.D. … D.O.s do not go round referring to themselves as “ostreopaths”; they appropriately introduce themselves as doctors. Agreed that more discussion about the degree and the training is inappropriate for this thread, so long as posters stop making dumbass digs at the physician based on that degree after their name. There are fine reasons to assume that this specific physician is less than “the best.” Trump hired him for one. He is the physician who put Trump on hydroxychloroquine too, not only poor medicine but encouraging harmful medical misinformation. None of his flaws though have anything to do with his D.O. label … some M.D.s directly hired by Trump have been even bigger fools. I do wonder how much input Trump’s personal physician has regarding the care Trump gets while in the hospital. I _suspect_ there are others there more in charge once he is there. Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/862 "2020-10-04T19:20:48Z")
I’m not going to get into a hypothetical medical discussion where the facts are unknown. As many as 50% of patients in some series have received glucocorticoids. Some studies show benefit. Others don’t. Actual practice is completely over the map. If you decide steroids are needed, starting them early is reasonable. Particularly as Trump has many risk factors. > **[Dexamethasone in Hospitalized Patients with Covid-19 — Preliminary Report](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7383595/?report=reader)** > > Coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) is associated with diffuse lung damage. Glucocorticoids may modulate inflammation-mediated lung injury and thereby reduce progression to respiratory failure and death.In this controlled, open-label trial comparing... ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/863 "2020-10-04T19:20:56Z")
Why would you give this drug to someone with a mild case? That doesn’t seem to make any sense at all based on the MOA of the drug. Dex does not treat the virus, it treats the acute respiratory distress caused by the immune response. It is contraindicated for mild cases. At best it does nothing, and there is a hint that it [make things worse](https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2021436) in these patients. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/864 "2020-10-04T19:24:57Z")
If it works at all, glucocorticoids treat systemic inflammation - possibly affecting the cytokine response. If you wait until there is full blown ARDS, you may be in a much more dangerous game of catch-up. But studies conflict on whether glucocorticoids help at all, or by how much (see above). There simply is no consensus on its use. Its use in practice is all over the map. You may think it is rare for intensivists to apply early treatments or throw the kitchen sink at problems. It is not. I have no further comment to make since none of us has access to accurate and specific data about Trump. We do not know if this case is currently “mild”. If it is, there are certainly risk factors which may predict further problems. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010.md?page=44)