# Trump and Melania test positive for COVID-19 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 2, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010 "2020-10-02T05:07:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/865 "2020-10-04T19:26:33Z")
Does he have the power to release himself from the hospital against doctor’s wishes? Because I can imagine Trump telling everyone that he’s going to go home tomorrow. I can’t imagine that this is in line with his doctor’s recommendations. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/866 "2020-10-04T19:28:14Z")
Conley implied the news conferences were as upbeat as they are as so not to disturb the patient (who is undoubtedly watching.) So we may be able to add Trump’s truth-allergy to the list of comorbidities and/or pre-existing conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/867 "2020-10-04T19:31:24Z")
Well, then there are two options, either he is getting terrible medical advice from physicians throwing the kitchen sink at the problem regardless of whether that sink is actually going to hurt him, or (more likely) he is getting sound medical advice for a patient with more severe disease than they are letting on. The latter option being more consistent with both the recommendations on the drug as well as the statements to the press about the severity of his disease by Mark Meadows. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/868 "2020-10-04T19:33:40Z")
Neither of us has any facts with which to judge his medical advice. The single fact that they are using the few medicines which may help - earlier than you might wish - does not tell you as much as you think it does. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/869 "2020-10-04T19:35:49Z")
> [@Monocracy](#): > > There is no doubt in my mind that Trump knew he had COVID long before he announced it Friday morning. He knew it at the fundraisers he held on Wednesday and Thursday. He knew it at the debates Tuesday. He possibly knew at the Rose Garden ceremony the Saturday proir when he announced the nomination of the SC Justice. I think he was banking on being asymptomatic the whole way through. Lost that bet. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/870 "2020-10-04T19:37:54Z")
But it does though. It tells me the two options above. Either he is mild and getting a drug that is not intended, recommended or beneficial (and probably harmful) for a patient like himself, or he is not mild and is getting a drug that is intended, recommended and beneficial for a patient like himself. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/871 "2020-10-04T19:39:45Z")
Going back to the White House doesn’t mean he wouldn’t continue to be treated and isolated. I would assume now he is shedding the virus all over the place and will do so for some time. How long will he remain contagious? A week to ten days? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/872 "2020-10-04T19:41:52Z")
> **[Trump is receiving lots of medical care. Some doctors wonder if it's too much.](https://www.providencejournal.com/story/lifestyle/health-fitness/2020/10/04/trump-is-receiving-lots-of-medical-care-some-doctors-wonder-if-its-too-much/114218984/)** > > One potential downside to being the President of the United States — too much care.  Presidents have... If Trump does come out of this okey-dokey, I hope Biden isn’t afraid to remind everyone that he was able to benefit from healthcare that most taxpayers aren’t able to access. There have been so many stories of people being turned away from hospitals despite being in poor condition and later dying at home because they don’t have good health coverage. Seems to me that most people have heard of these stories, they personally know someone it happened to, or it has happened to them. So if Trump is tempted to gloat, Biden should be able to knock him back down to reality if he plays this intelligently. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/873 "2020-10-04T19:46:08Z")
Claudia Conway has Covid. Thanks Mom! [https://twitter.com/ECMcLaughlin/status/1312830518262546432](https://twitter.com/ECMcLaughlin/status/1312830518262546432) ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/874 "2020-10-04T19:48:22Z")
That’s actually a great point. If he goes back to the WH, will he be in full quarantine mode to protect the WH staff (including general staff, like the butler and kitchen staff). Or will the staff have to look over their shoulders every five minutes to make sure Typhoid Trumpy isn’t spreading contagion in their midst? It would be better for everyone to keep him at Walter Reed. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/875 "2020-10-04T19:55:37Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It would be better for everyone to keep him at Walter Reed Betting Melania doesn’t want him back for co-isolation. He brought a disease home to her. Separated her from her child. Got other people and their families infected. She may be a shallow rich b#\*!h but she still has reason enough to be totally pissed off at him and the situation he put her in. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/876 "2020-10-04T19:59:05Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Does he have the power to release himself from the hospital against doctor’s wishes? Very difficult to keep a patient in a hospital if they can get up and walk out. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/877 "2020-10-04T19:59:17Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > She may be a shallow rich b#\*!h but she still has reason enough to be totally pissed off at him and the situation he put her in She’s been swallowing his crap for a lot of years. This is just item# 56,345 on the list. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/878 "2020-10-04T20:04:32Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Betting Melania doesn’t want him back for co-isolation. He brought a disease home to her. Separated her from her child. Got other people and their families infected. She may be a shallow rich b#\*!h but she still has reason enough to be totally pissed off at him and the situation he put her in. Oh, she can fuck off. She was at his side at many of these events. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/879 "2020-10-04T20:08:42Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > And, he is on dexamethasone, which is not a drug given to deal with COVID, it is a drug given to deal with the Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome that COVID causes. It is recommended for patients with "[severe and critical COVID-19"](https://www.jwatch.org/fw117002/2020/09/02/who-recommends-corticosteroids-severe-covid-19-after). > [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Because, as I understand it (I’m not a doctor), if you give it to them as a precaution you’re repressing the immune system which is not what you want at that stage. This does look very serious. And the fact the doctors are being more honest about this treatment shows that they are genuinely worried about him. As dexamethasone is a steroid, yes, I’d expect it to suppress the immune system so you give it only if the inflammation you need to treat is more of the threat than the immune suppression. But with Trump, who knows? Major national leaders and the wealthy (or perceived wealthy) have been over-medicated in the past, occasionally fatally. With this administration who the hell knows for sure? > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > You are reading too much into the early administration of steroids. They take some time to work. I would give it in a mild case too. Particularly for an important case. Less than 24 hours in my experience as a patient. Sometimes less than 12. Granted I haven’t taken dex, but I’ve been subjected to a couple others. Dex is also an emergency treatment for life-threatening high-altitude situations, like HACE or HAPE or maybe both. Would have to work pretty quick for that, wouldn’t it? > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Dexamethasone, IMHO - will make all but the most critically ill people functional — for a little while. > > I remember this from my late partner’s illness. He was a few weeks away from death due to pancreatic cancer, he’d lost 50% of his body weight and looked like a concentration camp news photo. And he popped that pill and went grocery shopping, cooked a 4 course gourmet dinner, played poker until midnight and drove himself home. If he dressed in bulky clothing we could really pretend nothing was wrong, > > I loved that drug and the way it let us maintain the illusion of normalcy until the last minute. It’s a powerful thing. Yeah, my husband got that in his last days - he was still carrying on a coherent conversation a half an hour before he died. “Able to sit upright and use a pen” while on dex doesn’t give you any guidance as to how sick a person really is. > [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > I would suggest the “may leave hospital on Monday” is being hopefully upbeat at best. There are two ways to leave a hospital. I think most people are assuming one over the other, but again, given this administration who the hell knows for sure? > [@Riemann](#): > > t think it’s unfair to label it crap. It’s crazy that this totally misleading terminology is still used. Why do genuine doctors want this label? It’s hardly unreasonable for someone unfamiliary with the history to assume that someone with a qualification in “Osteopathic Medicine” is a practitioner of the pseudoscience of osteopathy, why would anyone _expect_ anything else? Here in the US, DO’s are doctors with the same requirements and hands-on training as MD’s. In the US it’s not misleading terminology. Most people are NOT familiar with the history, which, by the way, includes the steady movement towards science and evidence based medicine since the first half of the 20th Century. [See this article about osteopathic medicine in the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathic_medicine_in_the_United_States). In the US, the difference makes little to no difference so what does it matter? In other places yes, “osteopaths” are a lot different than allopaths. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > They spend less time in academically-oriented residencies in favor of practical ones, they do less research, there are much fewer osteopaths in dual PhD programs than MD’s. … and this is a problem… why? We need practical doctors, and how much research does the average physician do anyway? Certainly for primary care physicians and family doctors there is little to no research of their own. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Plus there’s the basic eyebrow-raiser that osteopathy started out as a bullshit “manipulation” specialty, just like chiropractic, that was later retrofitted to be more mainstream-palatable. But they still label themselves with that useless term that doesn’t denote anything except that the discipline began its life as quackery. And allopaths started out with blood-letting, leeches, and “humoral theory” that hadn’t been updated since the days of the Ceasers. Why do you ignore that? > [@monstro](#): > > Does he have the power to release himself from the hospital against doctor’s wishes? Presumably, yes, Trump would have the same rights to refuse medical treatment as any other adult. Assuming he can ambulate, he could leave AMA. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/880 "2020-10-04T20:16:21Z")
Excerpt from _[amboss.com](http://amboss.com)_ (“a medical student guide”). Glucocorticoids are a group of drugs with various anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressant as well as metabolic and endocrine effects. These drugs are structurally and pharmacologically similar to the endogenous hormone cortisol. Glucocorticoids have _immediate_ effects that do not depend on DNA interaction (e.g., vasodilation). _However, they exert their main anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive actions by binding to glucocorticoid receptors, which, in turn, causes complex changes in gene transcription. These genomic effects only **begin** to manifest after several hours._ Similarly, glucocorticoids bind to mineralocorticoid receptors, but for most glucocorticoid drugs, high doses are required for a significant mineralocorticoid effect. Systemic glucocorticoids are used for hormone replacement therapy (e.g., in Addison disease), for acute or chronic inflammatory diseases (e.g., rheumatoid arthritis), and for immunosuppression (e.g., after organ transplants). Local glucocorticoids are used to treat conditions like dermatoses, asthma, and anterior uveitis. Side effects include metabolic and endocrine disturbances, weight gain, skin reactions, hypertension, and psychiatric disorders. Contraindications for systemic glucocorticoids include systemic fungal infections and, in the case of dexamethasone, cerebral malaria. Status asthmaticus is a contraindication for inhalative glucocorticoids. Topical and ophthalmic glucocorticoids are usually contraindicated if there are pre-existing local infections. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/881 "2020-10-04T20:17:56Z")
The point of the article though is a very good: VIP care is not always the best care. It can be more aggressive when watchful waiting is actually better for the patient. “Experimental” treatment is treatment that has not yet been proven to cause more good than harm. As stated in that article: > [@](#): > > Some medications will be safe and helpful, others will be unsafe and unhelpful or somewhere in between, and only rigorous clinical trials can reveal the difference, Prasad said. > > “The best medicine is not to give drugs that have no proof,” he said. As to dexamethasone use, here is what the article provided by @Dr_Paprika concluded: > [@](#): > > Our preliminary results show that among hospitalized patients with Covid-19, the use of dexamethasone for up to 10 days resulted in lower 28-day mortality than usual care in patients who were receiving invasive mechanical ventilation at randomization (by 12.3 age-adjusted percentage points, a proportional reduction of approximately one third) and those who were receiving oxygen without invasive mechanical ventilation (by 4.1 age-adjusted percentage points, a proportional reduction of approximately one fifth). However, there was **no evidence that dexamethasone provided any benefit among patients who were not receiving respiratory support at randomization, and the results were consistent with possible harm** in this subgroup. Bolding mine. Also this: > [@](#): > > The receipt of dexamethasone was associated with a reduction in 28-day mortality among those with symptoms for more than 7 days but not among those with a more recent symptom onset So **IF** Trump was not receiving respiratory support at the point of starting the medicine, then using the medicine might cause more harm than good … but for a VIP they might do it anyway, preferring to err on the side of doing than not doing something that might have helped if the outcome is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/882 "2020-10-04T20:19:00Z")
Is it possible they are able to set up a part of the White House as a sort of field hospital? I know it already has some medical facilities but might Trump be ordering them to put in an ICU capability and other things so he can return to the White House tomorrow and appear to be in more control? It would be a stupid thing to do I’d guess, but I wonder… ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/883 "2020-10-04T20:23:06Z")
There’s a video on dexamethasone on [FiveThirtyEight](https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/how-a-60-year-old-drug-became-our-best-hope-for-saving-people-with-covid-19/). A few excerpts: > In very sick patients whose immune systems are overreacting, researchers suspect that dexamehtasone lowers the inflammatory response which otherwise could be life-threatening. > … > It’s really only meant for the most serious cases. After all, dexamethasone suppresses the immune system, and you need your immune system to fight off the disease. > … > Also, doctors still aren’t sure which of dexamethasone’s many functions is most helpful for COVID patients ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010/884 "2020-10-04T20:29:29Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > What would be the basis for their lawsuit? They knew perfectly well that Trump’s policy had long been to ignore the virus, to ignore scientific advice, to refuse to implement safety measures either in national policy or personal behavior. And they were keen to meet with him to donate money to promote the continuation of his policies. They got _exactly_ what they were paying for. Reckless endangerment. They knew his policies all right. But actually to expose them to the virus, on purpose and secretly, I’d be phoning my lawyer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19/922010.md?page=45)