# Trump and the right's immigration stances are pushing the left towards open borders. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407 "2018-10-23T23:16:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/1 "2018-10-23T23:16:49Z")
I’d like to start off with I support immigration and I support borders. I do not support detaining children (unless there is a violent crime or repeat crime committed, or the safety of the child is in jeopardy). To some degree I do support illegal immigrants, I support the idea you’re of telling the gov to go fuck it’s self and entering the US illegally to give your family a better life. However I do not support the undermining of US workers, I do not support corporations exploiting illegals for cheap, unsafe, unregulated, labor. I do not support the conditions we place these illegals in by not allowing our laws to be applied to them, because when they are they’re deported or locked up instead. Now with that said, the point of this thread is to bring attention to the fact open borders is an actual thing millions of people are talking about. I find that a bit scary or perhaps intimidating would be a better word. I’m a leftist who is against letting everyone and their mother into the country with no rules. However I’m against having people wait 20 years, or turning asylum seekers away without even looking into them. I believe Trump’s rhetoric towards these immigrants and the media portraying Trump as fucking Hitler (I don’t agree with that) has contributed greatly to the growing position on having outright open borders. I’m sure open borders has been talked about for a very long time, but now they seem to be more of a reality people actually want. I honestly believe it’s a combination of the left’s progressive movement with bernie, and the right’s hard stance on immigration, that we’re seeing more and more people want open borders. If we vote in a bunch of dems or better yet progressives, then we might actually get open borders just because people have this idea open borders are a good idea. So does anyone agree with this idea that Trump/the right’s anti-immigration stances, the media’s portray of their stances, and the bernie crew are pushing the left towards open borders? And does anyone here actually think open borders is a good idea? If so why or why not? I’m hell bent on the moderates or centrists position on this, improve the immigration system, but don’t outright deny everyone, nor outright allow everyone in. I don’t think the current system is working too good, I think Obama did it better than Trump has. I think Obama’s policy on immigration was fine (after judges made him catch and release). If someone repeats a crime, or commits a violent crime then yeah fuck them lock em up. But if they’re just seeking asylum, or maybe they been in the US for decades, they shouldn’t be thrown out. They should be given a pathway to citizenship while already here. If people get in the country and by all means become American, then they should be given that option to become citizens instead of being thrown out. My main issue with all of this is the left’s idea that we need to have open borders. That’s absurd and I’d really like to know what dopers opinions on it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/2 "2018-10-23T23:30:22Z")
I don’t support the idea of open borders. But the conservative plan for closed borders is just as bad. The alternative to illegal immigration should be legal immigration not no immigration. Immigration should not include any limits based on race, religion, or nationality. If you want to screen potential immigrants to see if they are a criminal or a terrorist, that’s okay. But we should not be banning an entire country, an entire religion, or an entire race. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/3 "2018-10-23T23:38:21Z")
The only ones I hear talking about complete open borders is Trump and his circus claiming that that’s what Democrats want. Reasonable immigration is fine, the ‘wall’ is a ridiculous idea that is supported by a ridiculous president. Democrats as a group want completely open borders? That just another lie by Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/4 "2018-10-23T23:43:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t support the idea of open borders. But the conservative plan for closed borders is just as bad. The alternative to illegal immigration should be legal immigration not no immigration. > > Immigration should not include any limits based on race, religion, or nationality. If you want to screen potential immigrants to see if they are a criminal or a terrorist, that’s okay. But we should not be banning an entire country, an entire religion, or an entire race. That’s pretty much how I feel about it. It’s just scary to hear this talk about either or, open or closed borders, and I believe it’s this ultimatum is being made by the bumper sticker politics going on in both sides. > [@enipla](#): > > The only ones I hear talking about complete open borders is Trump and his circus claiming that that’s what Democrats want. Reasonable immigration is fine, the ‘wall’ is a ridiculous idea that is supported by a ridiculous president. > > Democrats as a group want completely open borders? That just another lie by Trump. No I mean he’s pushing certain people towards the idea open borders are good. Sure the current centrist dems aren’t radical enough to even propose open borders, but it’s definitely something individuals associated with the left have talked about. Personally I’ve heard people say we need open borders, I believe this is due to Trump’s lying and his stance on immigration which prompts these people to retaliate with what little information or insight they have on the topic. That being, trump opposes openborders and claims they want open boarders, therefor they support open borders in spite of trump. It may not be so wide spread it’ll become reality, but it’s still being spread much more than it has in the recent past. I don’t remember even thinking about open border during obama, but with all this talk about them it’s being an idea planted in peoples heads so of course it’s getting stirred around. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/5 "2018-10-23T23:52:17Z")
I think this in many ways is very similar to what the gay-marriage issue was, for Democrats, 30 years ago. It is not “we don’t support it” - it’s “we don’t support it…yet.” The main reason Democrats can’t or won’t openly state that they are in favor of open borders is because they know that doing so would hit them hard at the ballot box. (Sure, there are many who genuinely oppose open borders, but for some, I think they support it secretly inside and simply cannot admit it openly, just like how Democrats didn’t openly embrace gay marriage in the 1980s because they knew its time had not come.) I have a feeling that, twenty years from now, open borders will have become the mainstream view (like how gay-marriage now has majority support.) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/6 "2018-10-23T23:59:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think this in many ways is very similar to what the gay-marriage issue was, for Democrats, 30 years ago. > > It is not “we don’t support it” - it’s “we don’t support it…yet.” > > The main reason Democrats can’t or won’t openly state that they are in favor of open borders is because they know that doing so would hit them hard at the ballot box. (Sure, there are many who genuinely oppose open borders, but for some, I think they support it secretly inside and simply cannot admit it openly, just like how Democrats didn’t openly embrace gay marriage in the 1980s because they knew its time had not come.) > > I have a feeling that, twenty years from now, open borders will have become the mainstream view (like how gay-marriage now has majority support.) That’s not my position. I legitimately don’t see why it’s so bad to discuss restrictions on passport issuance, visa issuance, and border control, keeping in mind that refugees are a thing and can be dealt with in a benevolent yet not reckless way. I just don’t see why we have to be so racist about it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/7 "2018-10-24T00:03:31Z")
Is the Libertarian Party “liberal”? Because their platform says, “Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/8 "2018-10-24T00:12:47Z")
What does open borders even mean? Aside from anarchists and others on the extreme fringes, I don’t think anyone actually advocates for literal open borders. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/9 "2018-10-24T00:23:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What does open borders even mean? Aside from anarchists and others on the extreme fringes, I don’t think anyone actually advocates for literal open borders. I assume they mean open borders like exist within the EU and within the US between states. And no, I have never heard anyone advocate for that at the US/Mexico or US/Canada border. Only the so-called “president.” ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/10 "2018-10-24T00:24:05Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I have a feeling that, twenty years from now, open borders will have become the mainstream view (like how gay-marriage now has majority support.) I doubt this will be the case, because one of them has real world problems associated with it and the other doesn’t. With gay marriage, despite the protests from some conservatives, other people’s marriages are not affected. With immigration there are all kinds of societal effects that can cause issues in the country receiving the immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/11 "2018-10-24T00:34:05Z")
Sneaking over the border or outstaying your visa is illegal. Enforcing that is reasonable and the real Barack Obama did so. Coming to the US to request asylum is legal. If Trump doesn’t like that law, he has the freedom to make a real argument against it to Congress and ask them to change the law. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/12 "2018-10-24T02:51:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t support the idea of open borders. But the conservative plan for closed borders is just as bad. The alternative to illegal immigration should be legal immigration not no immigration. > > Immigration should not include any limits based on race, religion, or nationality. If you want to screen potential immigrants to see if they are a criminal or a terrorist, that’s okay. But we should not be banning an entire country, an entire religion, or an entire race. What do you do when people are trying to come from places where the people can’t be checked out? Obama realized the reality of this and identified 6 or 7 countries. This are the same countries Trump identified as problematic for immigration and halted it. What would you do? ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/13 "2018-10-24T02:53:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What do you do when people are trying to come from places where the people can’t be checked out? Obama realized the reality of this and identified 6 or 7 countries. This are the same countries Trump identified as problematic for immigration and halted it. What would you do? Maybe there’s a happy medium between banning an entire country and doing nothing at all. It’s almost as if that’s a false dichotomy… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/14 "2018-10-24T03:03:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What does open borders even mean? Aside from anarchists and others on the extreme fringes, I don’t think anyone actually advocates for literal open borders. [Does the DNC Deputy Chairman count?](https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/398786-calls-for-open-borders-wind-up-closing-doors-for-democrats) > [@](#): > > Over the past two months, Democratic National Committee deputy chairman and congressman Keith Ellison has passionately and persistently advocated his position that national borders, specifically the southern border, create “an injustice.” > > … > > These remarks come just weeks after Ellison wore a shirt that read “yo no creo en fronteras,” which in English translates into “I do not believe in borders.” And it’s not just him: > [@](#): > > Troublingly, these views on immigration are not far out of line with the Democratic Party as a whole. In fact, a Harvard Harris poll last month states that a striking 36 percent of Democrats support “basically open borders.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/15 "2018-10-24T03:12:52Z")
> [@JB99](#): > > Maybe there’s a happy medium between banning an entire country and doing nothing at all. It’s almost as if that’s a false dichotomy… I agree. And so does Trump. He never “banned” countries, he paused accepting immigrants until they could figure out who to vet them. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/16 "2018-10-24T03:19:13Z")
I’m glad that there is a thread about this topic. I don’t understand the liberal endgame. I’ve been working in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. I am constantly asked to help people get visas. Even getting a travel visa is a huge problem. I had no idea that a person from the Republic of Georgia, Ukraine, or the “stans” couldn’t even come and visit NYC or Disneyland for a week without going through a lengthy and expensive process that often ends up with them being denied. I support the concept of tall (metaphorical) walls and wide gates. Is there some reason that we should accept illegal immigration from Mexico but not everywhere else? I understand the needs of the asylum seekers, but perhaps the better solution is to address the issues in the asylum seekers’ own countries. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/17 "2018-10-24T03:38:13Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I agree. And so does Trump. He never “banned” countries, he paused accepting immigrants until they could figure out who to vet them. News flash: Trump and henchmen never intended to figure that out. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/18 "2018-10-24T03:42:25Z")
The GOP and their agenda of white nationalism and nativism is pushing a lot of people in the opposite direction. I think some people on the left are growing uncomfortable with any border enforcement because they feel it is placating or agreeing with the white nationalists. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/19 "2018-10-24T03:45:03Z")
“Henchmen” makes me laugh as it brings me back to the Batman series of the '60s. As does the notion of a Super-Duper Intent Figure-Outer. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/20 "2018-10-24T03:48:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > [Does the DNC Deputy Chairman count?](https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/398786-calls-for-open-borders-wind-up-closing-doors-for-democrats) > > And it’s not just him: So, a fringe that remains a fringe when policy was made on the past administration and it remains a fringe idea. [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/zorn/ct-perspec-zorn-open-borders-trump-fact-check-0701-20180629-story.html](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/zorn/ct-perspec-zorn-open-borders-trump-fact-check-0701-20180629-story.html) > [@](#): > > Then there are the tweets [from Trump]: Democrats “want Open Borders and don’t care about Crime!” (June 24) “The Democrats are in Turmoil! Open Borders and unchecked Crime” and “the Democrats… want Open Borders and Unlimited Crime” (Tuesday) , “THE DEMS WANT OPEN BORDERS” (Wednesday) and so on. > > As Trump has repeated this canard, first on the campaign trail and now in the White House, journalistic fact-checkers have repeatedly examined the claim and ruled it false. > > Politico, September 2016: “Trump said again last week during a North Carolina rally that (Hillary Clinton) was for ‘open borders.’ In fact, her position includes supporting recent immigration legislation that sought to heighten the country’s border security while installing a new system that finds people who have overstayed their visas and has them removed from the U.S.” > > The Guardian, October 2016: Democratic President Barack “Obama has deported a record more than 2.5 million people since he took office, including a record 438,421 people in 2013, and increased border patrol staff to a record 21,444 agents in 2011; his policy could not reasonably be described as ‘amnesty’ or ‘open borders.’ ” > > PolitiFact, June 28: “Trump bases this attack on Democratic opposition to his promised border wall with Mexico. Democrats argue a border wall is costly and not the most effective tool to combat illegal immigration and crime. Instead, they favor other types of barriers, technology, increases in border personnel and other improvements.” > > New York Times, June 27: “In 2013, every single Democrat in the Senate voted for the so-called Gang of Eight immigration overhaul bill that would have provided about $40 billion for border enforcement, including deploying thousands more agents and building 700 miles of fencing … And in 2006, 26 Senate Democrats voted to build 700 miles of walls and fences on the southwestern border.” > > The Times also noted that all 193 House Democrats have signed onto a proposal that “enhances technology used to monitor the border, and provides $110 million in grants annually for collaboration between local law enforcement and Border Patrol agents.” > > Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the young Democrat who identifies as a socialist and stunned the Democratic establishment Tuesday when she upset veteran New York Rep. Joe Crowley in a congressional primary, flatly denied in an interview with NPR on Wednesday the oft-printed accusation that she is for open borders. > > “We have to have a secure border,” she told host Steve Inskeep. “We need to make sure that people are, in fact, documented.” > > These truths are not likely to knock Trump off message, and the right-wing media seems to have his back on this topic. The ones that believe that Democrats listen to those fringe ideas are the ones that do base their policies on conspiracy and wrong information. > **[No, Democrats don't support an open borders bill](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/oct/08/donald-trump/donald-trump-falsely-claims-theres-open-borders-bi/)** > > President Donald Trump went to Kansas to rally for Republicans seeking election in November and in the process made fals > [@](#): > > “Every single Democrat in the U.S. Senate has signed up for the open borders, and it’s a bill, it’s called the ‘open borders bill.’ What’s going on? And it’s written by, guess who? Dianne Feinstein,” Trump said Oct. 6 in Topeka. > > Overall, Trump portrayed Democrats as too extreme and radical for public office and cast fear that if the alleged Democratic bill ever became law, “a tidal wave of drugs and crime would pour into our nation like never, ever before.” > > There are layers of falsehoods to what Trump said. A main one? There’s no “open borders bill.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407.md?page=2)