# Trump and the right's immigration stances are pushing the left towards open borders. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407 "2018-10-23T23:16:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/21 "2018-10-24T03:50:51Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > “Henchmen” makes me laugh as it brings me back to the Batman series of the '60s. Actually, Trump would make a pretty good Batman villain. The Cheeto or something. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/22 "2018-10-24T03:51:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > “Henchmen” makes me laugh as it brings me back to the Batman series of the '60s. As does the notion of a Super-Duper Intent Figure-Outer. I think you do not notice how, like in that TV series, the villains of the week were disposed, just like in the Trump administration. > **[A running list of Trump administration firings and departures](https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/d35ggv/everyone-trump-has-fired-or-has-quit-the-white-house)** > > A president famous for firing people on TV has had historic turnover in his administration. Just like in the TV show, they are not the sharpest tools in the shed. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/23 "2018-10-24T03:53:33Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > I’m glad that there is a thread about this topic. I don’t understand the liberal endgame. No wonder, the right wing media (and Trump) are lying a lot about this topic. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/24 "2018-10-24T04:04:15Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I think you do not notice how, like in that TV series, the villains of the week were disposed, just like in the Trump administration. > > [A running list of Trump administration firings and departures – VICE News](https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/d35ggv/everyone-trump-has-fired-or-has-quit-the-white-house) > > Just like in the TV show, they are not the sharpest tools in the shed. So far, it appears that Trump is Batman. Sure maybe, he’ll be brought down eventually, but as long as he keeps his Super Turn-Your-Enemies-Brains-Into-Mashed-Potatoes Gun in good working order, he should continue to prevail. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/25 "2018-10-24T04:14:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So far, it appears that Trump is Batman. Nope, that is Mueller. As cited already, Trump is lying left and right about this, and the right wing media is just happy to be his megaphone. > [@magellan01](#): > > Sure maybe, he’ll be brought down eventually, but as long as he keeps his Super Turn-Your-Enemies-Brains-Into-Mashed-Potatoes Gun in good working order, he should continue to prevail. Too bad that the evidence shows that he turned the gun to himself. “Let that be a lesson. In the future, be more careful from who you accept free lemonade.”\* - Adam West as Batman. - Or candy for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/26 "2018-10-24T04:20:05Z")
We’ll see. Hell, that proof of collusion must be right around the corner. And that Mueller is a wily one, somehow getting Dems to not utter the word for months before he reveals the proof. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/27 "2018-10-24T04:29:51Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > We’ll see. Hell, that proof of collusion must be right around the corner. And that Mueller is a wily one, somehow getting Dems to not utter the word for months before he reveals the proof. Well, thanks again for showing all that you do miss a lot indeed: > **[John Oliver Talks Russia Probe on 'Last Week Tonight'](https://time.com/5307778/john-oliver-stupid-watergate-trump-russia/)** > > Oliver returns to the slow burning scandal he calls Stupid Watergate > [@](#): > > While Trump and his supporters, like Sean Hannity and Kellyanne Conway, have been saying the investigation should be shut down, because they believe there’s no collusion. However, Oliver notes that Mueller’s mandate didn’t include the word collusion at all. ”Saying the investigation has to shut down if there’s no collusion is like saying a game of Scrabble has to end because you fit all the letters in your mouth,” says Oliver. “Congratulations, but those aren’t really the rules that we agreed to.” ‘If This is a Witch Hunt, Then Witches Exist.’ - John Oliver Of course a lot of that gas lighting is due to the caricature Trump and the right paint the opposition now. One should be less willing to follow the ones that use falsehoods to set policy. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/28 "2018-10-24T04:49:34Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, thanks again for showing all that you do miss a lot indeed: > > [John Oliver Returns to Russia Probe on 'Last Week Tonight' | TIME](http://time.com/5307778/john-oliver-stupid-watergate-trump-russia/) > ‘If This is a Witch Hunt, Then Witches Exist.’ - John Oliver > > Of course a lot of that gas lighting is due to the caricature Trump and the right paint the opposition now. One should be less willing to follow the ones that use falsehoods to set policy. Ha. The left’s infatuation with the C word (aka, the word that must not see spoken for the past few months) is cute. My position has been and is: we’ll see. You, of course, are free to believe whatever you’d like. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/29 "2018-10-24T06:14:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What do you do when people are trying to come from places where the people can’t be checked out? Obama realized the reality of this and identified 6 or 7 countries. This are the same countries Trump identified as problematic for immigration and halted it. What would you do? You are giving a significantly wrong summary here. Obama identified 6 or 7 countries as places where traveling to them was suspicious. Trump said coming from those countries was suspicious. As I said in a long ago thread, if you are looking for IT professionals you suspect people who visited Silicon Valley not people born there. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/30 "2018-10-24T06:24:52Z")
The way the media portrays Trump is simply an accurate portrayal of Trump. Our intuition breaks down, because we assume someone can’t be that bad, and thus we assume they are lying. Yes, it is possible that an extreme anti-immigrant position is making the “open borders” idea seem better by comparison. It sounds extremely hateful and lacks empathy. There is a tendency where, if one side goes to an extreme, you go to the opposite extreme to try and push everyone else to choose the middle, which is what you actually want. That said, the accusations of the left being for open borders is largely just a right wing invention. It is a way to make their position seem more reasonable, and to vilify the left. The actual mainstream left position is more like “people who were here illegally should have a path to citizenship.” It is that asylum seekers should be granted temporary residence. It is that we should accept as many refugees as we can realistically handle. There is also a call for immigration reform. Clearly demand is higher than our capacity to process. So we need better laws. And, finally, there is the ideological battle: where we stop seeing (brown) illegal immigrants as the bad guys. We cannot treat them as a scapegoat for our problems. Treat them like people who did understandable things to try and have a better life. Hell, just treat them like people, period. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/31 "2018-10-24T08:41:17Z")
So your basically saying democrats “might” be wanting open borders just as a way to piss off Trump and republicans? Yes, I can see that. But any side going so far away from a centrist position just to make the other side mad is making a big mistake. We should be working for the good of the whole country and open borders is clearly not a good idea. I see it as a systematic problem where the party out of power basically hopes and prays for a calamity to happen to make the person in charge look bad. We WANT bad things like massive economic collapse to happen so we can blame the other side. Whatever happened to right after 9/11 when 90% of the country was behind Bush going after Bin Laden which required invading Afghanistan? So yes, you make good points. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/32 "2018-10-24T09:18:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > [Does the DNC Deputy Chairman count?](https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/398786-calls-for-open-borders-wind-up-closing-doors-for-democrats) > > And it’s not just him: But that’s just a slogan. What does it actually mean? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/33 "2018-10-24T09:24:05Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Whatever happened to right after 9/11 when 90% of the country was behind Bush going after Bin Laden which required invading Afghanistan? Well, two main things. First, democrats saw the Bush administration turn this unique sense of unification into two incredibly ill-conceived wars and a mandate for social policy that Bush did not earn. Second, republicans decided to completely renege on any level of bipartisanship following Obama’s election; you may recall that Mitch McConnell considered making Obama a one-term president his highest goal in office. But then again, I dispute your premise, that those on the left are hoping for disaster. There’s a difference between expecting something and hoping for something; i.e. we expect that the Trump administration will lead to catastrophe, but we hope it won’t get worse than the rot we currently have. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/34 "2018-10-24T10:46:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What does open borders even mean? Kind of like open Barnes and Nobles, but less emphasis on macchiatos. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/35 "2018-10-24T11:09:02Z")
Trump didn’t drive me to support open borders, because I supported them before Trump was elected. Why? Because I want to make America great again, and open borders are what made us great in the first place. Give us your poor, your tired, your hungry, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Of course, just because I support them, doesn’t make it a mainstream liberal position, or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/36 "2018-10-24T11:45:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Trump didn’t drive me to support open borders, because I supported them before Trump was elected. Why? Because I want to make America great again, and open borders are what made us great in the first place. Give us your poor, your tired, your hungry, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. > > Of course, just because I support them, doesn’t make it a mainstream liberal position, or anything like that. Can you define what you mean by “open borders”? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/37 "2018-10-24T11:45:48Z")
I’m not for ‘open borders’ but I’m for faster, easier immigration and a fast-track to residency and citizenship. It’s not because of Republican immigration policy; rather, it’s because of voter suppression efforts. Something needs to be done to make the demographic advantage that Democrats have…permanent. In the end, I think that would also make the Republican party a better party, and it would be better for the country. No longer would Republicans try to divide the party along demographic lines; they’d have to compete with Democrats on economic and social ideas. The old Republican party was capable of doing that, but the Republican party since the 1980s has been more and more about sowing divisions among ethnic, religious, and cultural lines. I think that as the country becomes less white and more diverse, and once white conservatives accept that it’s not just ‘their America,’ we will be a better America. But we need to have a kind of tectonic demographic and cultural shift first, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/38 "2018-10-24T12:24:14Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > I assume they mean open borders like exist within the EU and within the US between states. And no, I have never heard anyone advocate for that at the US/Mexico or US/Canada border. Only the so-called “president.” I would not mind being a part of such an open border agreement with most European countries, most other large Anglophone countries, and Japan. But they wouldn’t want _America_ to be part of such a group due to the health care migrants it would engender! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/39 "2018-10-24T13:33:51Z")
“I’m in favor of something stupid, and it’s your fault.” Oooookay then… > [@](#): > > To some degree I do support illegal immigrants, I support the idea you’re of telling the gov to go fuck it’s self and entering the US illegally to give your family a better life. Trump doesn’t agree with this - is that why you think so? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/40 "2018-10-24T13:57:22Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m not for ‘open borders’ but I’m for faster, easier immigration and a fast-track to residency and citizenship. It’s not because of Republican immigration policy; rather, it’s because of voter suppression efforts. Something needs to be done to make the demographic advantage that Democrats have…permanent. > > In the end, I think that would also make the Republican party a better party, and it would be better for the country. No longer would Republicans try to divide the party along demographic lines; they’d have to compete with Democrats on economic and social ideas. The old Republican party was capable of doing that, but the Republican party since the 1980s has been more and more about sowing divisions among ethnic, religious, and cultural lines. I think that as the country becomes less white and more diverse, and once white conservatives accept that it’s not just ‘their America,’ we will be a better America. But we need to have a kind of tectonic demographic and cultural shift first, I believe. This really shows the divide. I see the identity politics of the left as the problem. Blacks or a member of almost any minority group who is conservative is vilified as being a sellout. Trump is doing pretty good trying to break that ideological stranglehold. And thank God for free-thinking conservatives like Candace Owens. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407.md?page=3)