# Trump and the right's immigration stances are pushing the left towards open borders. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407 "2018-10-23T23:16:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/81 "2018-10-25T03:46:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > A secure border is one that keeps out those who wold like to come here illegally. If it includes a wall, fine. If not, fine. The goal is not o have a wall, it’s merely one means to an end: a secure border. So then people who enter legally but stay on past their visa? How would your “secure border” stop them? Like, tourists? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/82 "2018-10-25T05:27:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So then people who enter legally but stay on past their visa? How would your “secure border” stop them? > > Like, tourists? It wouldn’t. That’s not the purpose of securing the physical border. For those overstaying their VISAs, we need other tools. ICE for instance. I’d also second **begbert2’s** idea about those who employ illegals. We should increase vigilance in that area and hold the very top management of the company responsible. Hiring illegals will not stop until C-suite individuals are seen on the news being frog-marched in orange jumpsuits. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/83 "2018-10-25T06:23:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > It wouldn’t. That’s not the purpose of securing the physical border. For those overstaying their VISAs, we need other tools. ICE for instance. I’d also second **begbert2’s** idea about those who employ illegals. We should increase vigilance in that area and hold the very top management of the company responsible. Hiring illegals will not stop until C-suite individuals are seen on the news being frog-marched in orange jumpsuits. And, so why spend all that money to arrest people who are here, working, obeying all the other laws? How are they hurting you? How are they hurting national security? So, a business hires a guy, who has a drivers lic and a Soc-sec card. Later, he turns out to be illegal, that isnt his SSN. You’d put the CEO in jail for that? Pretty much against the law. You can’t prosecute a business for accidentally hiring illegals, just for _knowingly_ hiring them. There is **NO TEST** a business can do which proves anyones legal right to work. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. In fact often ICE gets it wrong. As I said- \*smart businesses have caught on and now treat their Illegals as any other employee, and get a SSN from them. So when they are raided they have plausible deniability. \* ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/84 "2018-10-25T06:45:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Trump didn’t drive me to support open borders, because I supported them before Trump was elected. Why? Because I want to make America great again, and open borders are what made us great in the first place. Give us your poor, your tired, your hungry, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. > > Of course, just because I support them, doesn’t make it a mainstream liberal position, or anything like that. In January of this year, LHoD posted a new thread on [Default Yes Immigration](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=847323). It’s less than open borders, but still very open. I opposed the plan [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20743412&postcount=76). The following March, I posted a link to a Vox article on open borders: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20846114&postcount=89](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20846114&postcount=89) At any rate, the OP doesn’t grasp the essence of the immigration debate. Congressional majorities supported immigration reform [but Boehner blocked a vote](https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/immigration/256464-boehners-lack-of-leadership-doomed-immigration-reform) because a majority of _Republicans_ didn’t support it. The immigration debate involves mostly yammering about border security, even though about [half](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article25592716.html) of those who overstay their visa arrived legally, mostly via airports. If you want to protect American jobs, you should penalize American employers for hiring undocumented foreign workers. But the farm lobby, the restaurant lobby, and the business lobby adamantly opposes any sort of immigration law with teeth. So we get jabber about walls, which will do basically nothing. That makes everyone happy/unhappy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/85 "2018-10-25T07:20:29Z")
I have issues with the general principle of requiring business owners to enforce laws about events that occur outside of their business and which they have no control over. Telling a business owner he has to enforce laws over things like safety standards is reasonable; the owner has control of those. But why should a business owner be held responsible if one of his employees entered the country illegally ten years before the owner hired him? That’s like telling a business owner he’s responsible if one of his employees gets a DUI on his day off. I personally suspect there’s a hidden agenda at work. If you make business owners criminally liable if they hire any illegal immigrants, a lot of owners will follow the path of least risk and refuse to hire anyone who looks like they might be an illegal immigrant with false papers. In other words, businesses will refuse to hire anyone who doesn’t look and sound “American”. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/86 "2018-10-25T09:39:02Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I read the other day their are 550,000 homeless right now in the US. Where are we going to put all these new arrivals/ how will we feed them? Who will pay for their healthcare, education, and housing? > > Sorry, we cannot take anymore. We cant take care of our own. You use the word can’t. Won’t is more appropriate. Quick, which party killed the program to help homeless veterans? Which party insists on “bootstraps” instead of education? When one country controls almost half of the world’s wealth, the fact that so many literally have nowhere to live is utterly unthinkable. Don’t worry though, Senator Grassley’s getting a few hundred thousand dollars of YOUR money to offset the damage his farm has suffered due to YOUR President’s tariffs. Don’t cry about being unable to help our own while ballooning the deficit in order to reward the ultra-wealthy. Can’t help our own? Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/87 "2018-10-25T11:19:00Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I read the other day their are 550,000 homeless right now in the US. Where are we going to put all these new arrivals/ how will we feed them? Who will pay for their healthcare, education, and housing? > > Sorry, we cannot take anymore. We cant take care of our own. I seem to recall someone giving up a trillion dollars so the wealthiest Americans could keep more of their money. Apparently they couldn’t think of a better use for it. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/88 "2018-10-25T13:47:31Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Excellent idea. > What has the current administration proposed to help our native homeless? Didn’t you hear? They gave a big tax break to the richest, who due to the kindness in their hearts, will help them by using that money to create jobs. Oh wait, they only do that when business conditions require it, so fuck those leeches, we got ours… ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/89 "2018-10-25T14:38:43Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > In January of this year, LHoD posted a new thread on [Default Yes Immigration](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=847323). It’s less than open borders, but still very open. I opposed the plan [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20743412&postcount=76). The following March, I posted a link to a Vox article on open borders: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20846114&postcount=89](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20846114&postcount=89) > > The immigration debate involves mostly yammering about border security, even though about [half](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article25592716.html) of those who overstay their visa arrived legally, mostly via airports. If you want to protect American jobs, you should penalize American employers for hiring undocumented foreign workers. But the farm lobby, the restaurant lobby, and the business lobby adamantly opposes any sort of immigration law with teeth. So we get jabber about walls, which will do basically nothing. That makes everyone happy/unhappy. It is already illegal to hire anyone without verifying immigration status. Why do we need more laws to criminalize what is already illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/90 "2018-10-25T15:48:38Z")
Do you know why I want open borders? Because as a kid I believed that America was, for the most part, a haven that welcomed the needy. A place people came to when their own countries failed them politically or economically, and that, baring a degree of bureaucracy, for the most part accepted those people in. As I grew and became more world-aware, I learned that there was more red tape than I could have dreamed, but accepted it because, well, “we can’t take everybody, right?” I might have continued happily in perpetuity with a slightly fluctuating status-quo of some limited numbers of migrants from specific countries, until half the country decided to start screaming about building a wall around America. It made me stop and ask what the big deal is about immigration in the first place. Since, to me, the negative impacts of immigration are clearly only a micro-piece of the train-wreck our economic system is headed for (increasing wealth gap, decreasing wages, decreasing importance of human bodies to industry, equalizing of economic might globally), trying to solve economic problems with immigration policy is a futile idea. So obviously futile that it calls into question what the deeper motivations are for wall-building, and the sub-genre of “well, I guess the wall is kind of a dumb idea, but we still need ‘wall-like’ borders.” Expanding government to enforce borders is a waste of money, and expands an already too-large government into bridge-to-nowheresville. So I say screw it. Let’s let people in. Until there’s a real compelling argument against it, I think the American Way ought to default towards open borders, not closed. We can still screen for terrorists or whatever, but barring that, let them come. Give them an ID. Tax them. Let them stay. Ultimately, the current debate has just illustrated how deeply emotionally/politically/racially motivated immigration legislation is, so much so that it calls into question any “rational” argument for restricted immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/91 "2018-10-25T16:19:18Z")
David Frum touched on a nerve when he wrote in an Atlantic article: “When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders, then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals will not do.” (closing paragraph of the article) > **[The Roots of a Counterproductive Immigration Policy](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/an-immigration-order-as-stupid-as-it-is-counterproductive/514847/)** > > The liberal scorn for nationhood and refusal to adapt immigration policy to changing circumstances enables the rise of extremism in the West. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/92 "2018-10-25T16:36:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > David Frum touched on a nerve when he wrote in an Atlantic article: “When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders, then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals will not do.” (closing paragraph of the article) > > [A Counterproductive Immigration Order - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/an-immigration-order-as-stupid-as-it-is-counterproductive/514847/) Those fantasy liberals insisting that “only fascists will defend borders” sure are terrible! Screw those fantasy, not-real liberals – they suck! ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/93 "2018-10-25T16:56:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > David Frum touched on a nerve when he wrote in an Atlantic article: “When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders, then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals will not do.” (closing paragraph of the article) > > [A Counterproductive Immigration Order - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/an-immigration-order-as-stupid-as-it-is-counterproductive/514847/) The vital paragraph of that essay, in two parts: > [@](#): > > The Western world desperately needs a more hardheaded approach to the issue of refugees. It is bound by laws and treaties written after World War II that have been rendered utterly irrelevant by a planet on the move. Tens of millions of people seek to exit the troubled regions of Central America, the Middle East, West Africa, and South Asia for better opportunities in Europe and North America. Why do we need a more hardheaded approach? He doesn’t really say. Later, he says that “social trust and cohesion” is eroding. Because of immigrants, he seems to imply, but does not draw the line. > [@](#): > > The relatively small portion of that number who have reached the rich North since 2013 have already up-ended the politics of the United States, the United Kingdom, and the European Union. German chancellor Angela Merkel’s August 2015 order to fling open Germany’s doors is the proximate cause of the de-democratization of Poland since September 2015, of the rise of Marine LePen in France, of the surge in support for Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, and—I would argue—of Britain’s vote to depart the European Union. The surge of border crossers from Central America into the United States in 2014, and Barack Obama’s executive amnesties, likewise strengthened Donald Trump. He’s ass-backwards here. It’s not the “small portion” of refugees who have made it to Western countries that are up-ending Democracy, it’s the current citizens of those countries. Immigrants aren’t killing Democracy, Americans are killing Democracy. This essay reads like a political version of spousal abuse justification: “we didn’t want to de-Democratize our country, but these people moved in next door who look different and speak a different language, and, well, they just got me so angry I couldn’t help myself!” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/94 "2018-10-25T16:57:48Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > I’d like to start off with I support immigration and I support borders. I do not support detaining children (unless there is a violent crime or repeat crime committed, or the safety of the child is in jeopardy). To some degree I do support illegal immigrants, I support the idea you’re of telling the gov to go fuck it’s self and entering the US illegally to give your family a better life. However I do not support the undermining of US workers, I do not support corporations exploiting illegals for cheap, unsafe, unregulated, labor. I do not support the conditions we place these illegals in by not allowing our laws to be applied to them, because when they are they’re deported or locked up instead. > > Now with that said, the point of this thread is to bring attention to the fact open borders is an actual thing millions of people are talking about. I find that a bit scary or perhaps intimidating would be a better word. I’m a leftist who is against letting everyone and their mother into the country with no rules. However I’m against having people wait 20 years, or turning asylum seekers away without even looking into them. I believe Trump’s rhetoric towards these immigrants and the media portraying Trump as fucking Hitler (I don’t agree with that) has contributed greatly to the growing position on having outright open borders. I’m sure open borders has been talked about for a very long time, but now they seem to be more of a reality people actually want. I honestly believe it’s a combination of the left’s progressive movement with bernie, and the right’s hard stance on immigration, that we’re seeing more and more people want open borders. If we vote in a bunch of dems or better yet progressives, then we might actually get open borders just because people have this idea open borders are a good idea. > So does anyone agree with this idea that Trump/the right’s anti-immigration stances, the media’s portray of their stances, and the bernie crew are pushing the left towards open borders? And does anyone here actually think open borders is a good idea? If so why or why not? I’m hell bent on the moderates or centrists position on this, improve the immigration system, but don’t outright deny everyone, nor outright allow everyone in. I don’t think the current system is working too good, I think Obama did it better than Trump has. I think Obama’s policy on immigration was fine (after judges made him catch and release). If someone repeats a crime, or commits a violent crime then yeah fuck them lock em up. But if they’re just seeking asylum, or maybe they been in the US for decades, they shouldn’t be thrown out. They should be given a pathway to citizenship while already here. If people get in the country and by all means become American, then they should be given that option to become citizens instead of being thrown out. My main issue with all of this is the left’s idea that we need to have open borders. That’s absurd and I’d really like to know what dopers opinions on it would be. The left has always been for open borders…it’s one of their things (unless we are talking about a communist nation, in which case prudent measures to ensure your population can’t leave are always on tap). I don’t think that what Trump et al are doing are pushing liberals and Democrats towards open borders, though. I don’t think that actual open borders are all that popular or even that much of a thing with most Democrats. What I HOPE is that the Democrats will respond with a campaign to look at the archaic and convoluted immigration laws and policies on the books with an eye towards changing and updating them to be more sane and less stupid. I’d be all over supporting them doing that. We don’t need open borders. What we need are programs to streamline getting folks who really desire to become US citizens to, well, become US citizens. There are millions of tech jobs going undone in the US because we can’t seem to home grow the material…and there are 10’s of millions of potential folks out there who might want to become US citizens. We should be encouraging these folks to emigrate to the US, not putting up barriers because of fear and ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/95 "2018-10-25T17:24:25Z")
> [@XT](#): > > What I HOPE is that the Democrats will respond with a campaign to look at the archaic and convoluted immigration laws and policies on the books with an eye towards changing and updating them to be more sane and less stupid. I’d be all over supporting them doing that. That’s what comprehensive immigration reform was and is. Democrats even got George W. Bush and some Senate Republicans on board! The problem is that there’s too much racial resentment among the GOP block to actually do it. As long as they have 41 Senators and some semblance of a Tea Party threat in the primaries then it ain’t gonna happen because none of them want to get Eric Cantor’d. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/96 "2018-10-25T17:25:06Z")
To put things in perspective: Uganda currently has 17 registered refugees living in the country per every 100 Ugandan citizens, plus an unknown number of unregistered refugees (if they have family or friends already in the country to help them, there’s little need to register). These refugees are given the same standard of living as the citizens. This isn’t a high-minded pie in the sky plan; this is what the country is actually doing. And yet, Americans claim that we’re incapable of helping the comparatively meager number of refugees and immigrants we’re receiving? Are we not great? Are we not even at least as great as Uganda? How is it that Uganda is capable of something we are not? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/97 "2018-10-25T17:43:07Z")
I’m not sure that is a good comparison to use. According to Wiki, Uganda is one of the poorest countries in the world. The easy comeback to your question is “Refugees have dragged Uganda down. I don’t want the same thing to happen to the US” ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/98 "2018-10-25T17:53:56Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I read the other day their are 550,000 homeless right now in the US. Where are we going to put all these new arrivals/ how will we feed them? Who will pay for their healthcare, education, and housing? > > Sorry, we cannot take anymore. We cant take care of our own. Most of the new arrivals will be staying with friends and family like they planned until they find employment and get settled. They actually do have support and people they know that are already here. You’ve heard, I’m sure, that most of them are given ankle bracelets and a hearing date. Do you think they leave the courthouse and go out to live on the sidewalk? Homelessness is a huge problem with many root causes but “too many people in the US already and not enough homes to go around” is not one of them. Homeless people are mostly homeless because they have intractable mental issues and/or drug and alcohol problems that make it impossible for them to retain jobs and housing (even housing with friends and family). Since you seem so concerned about the refugees depleting our housing stock, would you agree to let them in if they can demonstrate that they have a place to stay and that they are employable? If so, we might have found common ground. This problem has absolutely nothing to do with immigration and reducing the number of immigrants isn’t going to do anything to help the homeless. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/99 "2018-10-25T18:02:24Z")
Yes, and even one of the poorest countries in the world can afford that. They’re not poor because of the refugees; they were poor even before that. But they can still afford to be decent, loving people. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/100 "2018-10-25T18:07:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To put things in perspective: Uganda currently has 17 registered refugees living in the country per every 100 Ugandan citizens, plus an unknown number of unregistered refugees (if they have family or friends already in the country to help them, there’s little need to register). These refugees are given the same standard of living as the citizens. This isn’t a high-minded pie in the sky plan; this is what the country is actually doing. > > And yet, Americans claim that we’re incapable of helping the comparatively meager number of refugees and immigrants we’re receiving? Are we not great? Are we not even at least as great as Uganda? How is it that Uganda is capable of something we are not? Are we just talking about the caravan or in general? I think the US has about 12% of our population as immigrants (about 40-50 million, IIRC) and we pretty much allow in over a million new immigrants each year, so not like we are doing nothing. I think we compare favorably to Uganda and most other countries wrt our overall track record. Not to say we couldn’t do better but lets not go overboard on how bad we are either. Even under Trump. That said, I’m unsure what the big dust up is over 5000 desperate folks seeking asylum and why people are so worked up about letting them in. It should be a no brainer…the region is melting down with Venezuela in a death spiral and the entire region is in turmoil…and this isn’t even counting the ongoing issues with drug cartels and corrupt governments. 5000 or even double that number of refugees should be no problem for the US to bring in and integrate if they are asking for asylum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407.md?page=6)