# Trump and the right's immigration stances are pushing the left towards open borders. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407 "2018-10-23T23:16:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/101 "2018-10-25T18:19:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Trump didn’t drive me to support open borders, because I supported them before Trump was elected. Why? Because I want to make America great again, and open borders are what made us great in the first place. Give us your poor, your tired, your hungry, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. This was long before there were 130 million people occupying the country just south of the border. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/102 "2018-10-25T18:22:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I have issues with the general principle of requiring business owners to enforce laws about events that occur outside of their business and which they have no control over. > > Telling a business owner he has to enforce laws over things like safety standards is reasonable; the owner has control of those. > > But why should a business owner be held responsible if one of his employees entered the country illegally ten years before the owner hired him? That’s like telling a business owner he’s responsible if one of his employees gets a DUI on his day off. > > I personally suspect there’s a hidden agenda at work. If you make business owners criminally liable if they hire any illegal immigrants, a lot of owners will follow the path of least risk and refuse to hire anyone who looks like they might be an illegal immigrant with false papers. In other words, businesses will refuse to hire anyone who doesn’t look and sound “American”. Yep. Or in other words, do exactly what the Immigration haters want- turn into a racist. Canadians will be OK, Mexicans, since they have brown skin- no. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/103 "2018-10-25T18:30:19Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Do you know why I want open borders? > > B > Expanding government to enforce borders is a waste of money, and expands an already too-large government into bridge-to-nowheresville. > > So I say screw it. Let’s let people in. Until there’s a real compelling argument against it, I think the American Way ought to default towards open borders, not closed. > > We can still screen for terrorists or whatever, but barring that, let them come. Give them an ID. Tax them. Let them stay. Screen for contraband also. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/104 "2018-10-25T19:08:15Z")
Another thing; Hasn’t Europe been seeing asylum-seekers in much larger numbers crossing the Mediterranean Sea? I wonder if they’re amused by how concerned the White House is over this caravan. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/105 "2018-10-25T19:45:41Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > This was long before there were 130 million people occupying the country just south of the border. So the ideal expressed on the Statue of Liberty was meant to be taken in a relative sense? “Give me your poor etc. etc. as long as Mexico’s population doesn’t reach 130 million” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/106 "2018-10-25T20:15:53Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Another thing; Hasn’t Europe been seeing asylum-seekers in much larger numbers crossing the Mediterranean Sea? I wonder if they’re amused by how concerned the White House is over this caravan. I don’t think “amused” is the proper adjective. [EU to conduct border patrols in Libya to stop migrants reaching Europe](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-libya-border-controls-stop-migrants-reaching-europe-a7736696.html). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/107 "2018-10-25T20:25:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t think “amused” is the proper adjective. [EU to conduct border patrols in Libya to stop migrants reaching Europe](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-libya-border-controls-stop-migrants-reaching-europe-a7736696.html). I picture Maximus throwing a sword at the crowd and screaming ‘ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED???’… ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/108 "2018-10-25T20:28:15Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Do you know why I want open borders? > > Because as a kid I believed that America was, for the most part, a haven that welcomed the needy. A place people came to when their own countries failed them politically or economically, and that, baring a degree of bureaucracy, for the most part accepted those people in. > > As I grew and became more world-aware, I learned that there was more red tape than I could have dreamed, but accepted it because, well, “we can’t take everybody, right?” > > I might have continued happily in perpetuity with a slightly fluctuating status-quo of some limited numbers of migrants from specific countries, until half the country decided to start screaming about building a wall around America. It made me stop and ask what the big deal is about immigration in the first place. > > Since, to me, the negative impacts of immigration are clearly only a micro-piece of the train-wreck our economic system is headed for (increasing wealth gap, decreasing wages, decreasing importance of human bodies to industry, equalizing of economic might globally), trying to solve economic problems with immigration policy is a futile idea. So obviously futile that it calls into question what the deeper motivations are for wall-building, and the sub-genre of “well, I guess the wall is kind of a dumb idea, but we still need ‘wall-like’ borders.” > > Expanding government to enforce borders is a waste of money, and expands an already too-large government into bridge-to-nowheresville. > > So I say screw it. Let’s let people in. Until there’s a real compelling argument against it, I think the American Way ought to default towards open borders, not closed. > > We can still screen for terrorists or whatever, but barring that, let them come. Give them an ID. Tax them. Let them stay. > > Ultimately, the current debate has just illustrated how deeply emotionally/politically/racially motivated immigration legislation is, so much so that it calls into question any “rational” argument for restricted immigration. Ok, fine. Your tag says you live in Vermont. Just how many illegals is your town willing to take in? 10, 100, 1,000, 10,000??? I mean why do Vermonters have the right to their quiet, peaceful communities when millions of persons in Central America are living in mass poverty and gangland warfare? I am sorry but America is full and we cant take them all. Look, I understand your compassion. I personally think we should do more to help those in their home countries so they dont have to immigrate. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/109 "2018-10-25T20:57:45Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I am sorry but America is full and we cant take them all. America is full? OK, mandatory birth control starts immediately! No more babies! Can’t take them all? No one is saying “let’s take them all.” People have been trying for decades now to say, “Let’s find a better, fairer way to take the ones who can help our country grow,” but the hardline GOP keeps shutting down the discussion with simplistic pap like “We’re full, we can’t take anymore.” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/110 "2018-10-25T21:01:22Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > America is full? OK, mandatory birth control starts immediately! No more babies! > > Can’t take them all? No one is saying “let’s take them all.” So if we \*\*don’t \*\*take them all, then what happens when they arrive at the border? Does ICE/Border Patrol tell the migrants to line up and then select some of them based off of education, appearance, age, attractiveness, talent, skill, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/111 "2018-10-25T21:32:24Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I am sorry but America is full and we cant take them all. Aren’t you from Kansas? Like look outside. I’m pretty sure Kansas has a little room left. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/112 "2018-10-25T21:33:07Z")
Once entry into the United States becomes a human right like voting, we will learn that people of color are more likely to be unable produce proper documentation to gain entry. This will be deemed unfair and racist. Let’s skip pretense of being reasonable and just say you want open borders with no restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/113 "2018-10-25T21:47:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So if we \*\*don’t \*\*take them all, then what happens when they arrive at the border? Does ICE/Border Patrol tell the migrants to line up and then select some of them based off of education, appearance, age, attractiveness, talent, skill, etc.? Well … yes? I’m not nearly as well-informed on the particulars as other Dopers, but there are criteria for permitting entry for some and turning others away. (Not based on age or attractiveness, obviously.) The bases for these criteria should be a subject for vigorous debate and frequent re-evaluation, but that’s a fantasy in today’s climate. Are you saying that if we can’t “take them all,” we should take none? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/114 "2018-10-25T21:47:59Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Aren’t you from Kansas? Like look outside. I’m pretty sure Kansas has a little room left. Every single day, well over 10,000 babies are born in the US. And they will be dependent on someone for all their basic needs for roughly the next twenty years. The government will end up supporting a significant percentage of them. If the US is “full”, why aren’t we doing something about this? 5000 new mostly able-bodied adultresidents is really not a significant number. When people come into this country, they spend money on food, housing and clothing which stimulates the economy and creates jobs. This “no room at the inn” argument is just really stupid. It’s really about narrow-minded snowflakes getting triggered when they hear people speaking Spanish at the mall. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/115 "2018-10-25T22:03:38Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Every single day, well over 10,000 babies are born in the US. And they will be dependent on someone for all their basic needs for roughly the next twenty years. The government will end up supporting a significant percentage of them. > > If the US is “full”, why aren’t we doing something about this? 5000 new mostly able-bodied adultresidents is really not a significant number. When people come into this country, they spend money on food, housing and clothing which stimulates the economy and creates jobs. This “no room at the inn” argument is just really stupid. It’s really about narrow-minded snowflakes getting triggered when they hear people speaking Spanish at the mall. We already allow in over 1 million immigrants annually, so why even bother talking about this other stuff? 5000 isn’t even a drop in the bucket. About the only issue would be processing them in under the asylum rules in a relatively short period of time, and housing and feeding them while they are vetted…and even that is only an issue because they won’t be coming in at the usual places where we are set up to process so many. No, the real issue has nothing to do with not enough room (there aren’t enough :rolleyes: for such a ridiculous statement), the real issue is that this has been made an issue for political reasons and folks have gotten all riled up about this massive caravan, OMG!! It’s fucking stupid and ignorant, but then look at our Deer (in the headlights) Leader™… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/116 "2018-10-25T22:21:40Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Aren’t you from Kansas? Like look outside. I’m pretty sure Kansas has a little room left. Where would we put all the corn??? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/117 "2018-10-26T12:39:46Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Aren’t you from Kansas? Like look outside. I’m pretty sure Kansas has a little room left. Well, do we really want to scare off the asylum seekers by threatening to send them to Kansas? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/118 "2018-10-26T14:18:38Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Can’t take them all? No one is saying “let’s take them all.” People have been trying for decades now to say, “Let’s find a better, fairer way to take the ones who can help our country grow,” but the hardline GOP keeps shutting down the discussion with simplistic pap like “We’re full, we can’t take anymore.” Many people in this thread are saying that we should take them all and have open borders. The left has lost its mind on this issue. 14,000 people. That’s about the number of men used in Pickett’s Charge. It is an absolute invasion. To say that they can all just walk in this country is one of the main reasons that Trump got elected to stop. A country has a right to its own identity, its own borders, and its own internal security. This country has become the most prosperous in the world and the left is telling the vast majority of people in this country that there is something wrong with wanting to keep it that way. It is simply why there are countries in the first place. This screed of racism, racism, racism, is a well worn ploy of the left and is used to stifle debate on this issue as well as most others. The majority of people would not support 14,000 poor, uneducated, and illiterate white Canadians coming into this country to tax the social welfare system either. Racism is an absolute red herring. To the extent that we want to maintain our cultural identity and not have “press one for English” or have dual language signs in public places, there is not a damn thing wrong with that, and when the left keeps telling us that, we keep voting Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/119 "2018-10-26T14:44:57Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > To the extent that we want to maintain our cultural identity and not have “press one for English” or have dual language signs in public places, there is not a damn thing wrong with that, and when the left keeps telling us that, we keep voting Republican. Seriously with this? There shouldn’t be any other language options for people who call places for help? What about visitors to this country who might not speak English? And there are dual language signs in almost every country in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/120 "2018-10-26T15:07:53Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This screed of racism, racism, racism, is a well worn ploy of the left and is used to stifle debate on this issue as well as most others. The majority of people would not support 14,000 poor, uneducated, and illiterate white Canadians coming into this country to tax the social welfare system either. Racism is an absolute red herring. Your idea that there are 14,000 illiterate Central Americans marching for America is propaganda invented to rile up people with racial resentments to vote in the mid-terms. It isn’t something actually happening in the real world. It is wrong in the scale, it is wrong about the composition of the caravan, it is wrong about where those individuals are likely to end up, and it is wrong about what would happen even if they all made it to the US border. There are 3,000 who are 900 miles from the US border. Only a fraction are heading for that border, and only a fraction will make it there. Some of them have legitimate asylum claims. Some don’t. It isn’t a big deal, except in the minds of people with deep-seated, non-evidence-based fears about immigrants from the South. It may not be good political strategy to call out racist tactics. But that doesn’t change the reality of the tactics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407.md?page=7)