# Trump and the right's immigration stances are pushing the left towards open borders. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407 "2018-10-23T23:16:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/161 "2018-10-28T17:53:48Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’d have a trial. If it is proven that the execs knew or willingly turned a blind and should have and could have easily know, it’s orange jumpsuit time. Execs? If you go to Wendy’s the person who is in charge of hiring is a 24 year old without any college experience. They are presented documents that say that the person in front of them is legally eligible to work in the united states. If it turns out that the documentation was not correct, who’s fault is that? I guarantee that if anyone is held to be liable, the execs will make sure it is the 24 year old. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/162 "2018-10-28T18:06:40Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The problem is that the Dems refuse to agree to secure the border first. And every sane person realizes that if it is not done first it will not be done. Just as it was promised but not done after Reagan’s amnesty, or after the bi-partisan 9/11 commission report. There is no way to 100% “secure the border”. the Wall is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/163 "2018-10-29T00:01:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > E-verify is craptastic. There is **NO WAY** to 100% verify right to reside & work in the USA. Even ICE gets it wrong sometimes. > > And no, there are not, not unless they \*knowingly \*hire illegals. Very hard to prove unless they dont get a SSN or they pay them under the table. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > E-Verify sucks. It is not an instant check, so you either have to put off someone’s start date until it comes back, or take the chance of spending time on training someone you will have to fire if it doesn’t come back. > > It misses quite a number of people it should catch, meaning that you may be employing an an ineligible worker, and it has occasional false positives, leading to not hiring perfectly eligible workers. > > It is also something that if you do, you have to do for every single hire. If you only e-verify the people you think may be unauthorized, that is the definition of discrimination, and can land you with a nice lawsuit. > > … > We’d pretty much have to get rid of cash as a legitimate transaction medium in order to really crack down on unauthorized immigrant employment. That _and_ create a much more robust E-Verify, which would probably mean actually having a national ID. All that is worth saying. But it’s not hard to imagine an E-Verify with a social security number, a picture ID, and a set of fingerprints. If all that matches, your employee is good to go. Allowance for employer first offenses, second offenses, third offenses _and followup_ sounds reasonable as well. Yes, there are details to resolve but this simply does not sound like rocket science, though it does require enabling legislation. Which we don’t have, because business is happy with the status quo and the Republican party is deadlocked. I don’t have problems with the status quo c. 1970-2016 either. I’m just saying the debate was BS. > [@magellan01](#): > > The problem is that the Dems refuse to agree to secure the border first. Empty allegation. All borders are porous: smuggling dates back to the earliest borders. The US spent billions on border security during the Obama administration. [The U.S. Already Spends Billions on Border Security](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-s-wall-would-add-billions-u-s-spends-border-n640251) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/164 "2018-10-29T00:26:17Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > But it’s not hard to imagine an E-Verify with a social security number, a picture ID, and a set of fingerprints. If all that matches, your employee is good to go. This means everyone, I mean everyone who works would have to have their fingerprints and current picture in a national database. Which is even more than a national ID. I, for one, am not willing to give up that much privacy just so some racists can feel safer, and so I get to pay double for all my produce. No thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/165 "2018-10-29T01:05:50Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > So the ideal expressed on the Statue of Liberty was meant to be taken in a relative sense? > > “Give me your poor etc. etc. as long as Mexico’s population doesn’t reach 130 million” Wait, isn’t the Constitution a living, breathing document? jk When written, it couldn’t have expected the citizens to possibly be able to support an open border with a country the size of Mexico. Provisions would have been included. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/166 "2018-10-29T02:24:17Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Empty allegation. All borders are porous: smuggling dates back to the earliest borders. The US spent billions on border security during the Obama administration. [The U.S. Already Spends Billions on Border Security](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-s-wall-would-add-billions-u-s-spends-border-n640251) The most important ingredient in the quest to secure the border is a true desire to actually secure it. And just because a 100% secure border might not ever be possible, that doesn’t mean that we can’t get close. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/167 "2018-10-29T02:31:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The problem is that the Dems refuse to agree to secure the border first. So your proposal is we give the right wingers everything they want and seal the borders to keep out anyone from a “shithole” country. And in exchange, the right wingers promise that after the border is secure they’ll consider setting up some kind of legal immigration system. > [@magellan01](#): > > And every sane person realizes that if it is not done first it will not be done. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/168 "2018-10-29T03:24:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So your proposal is we give the right wingers everything they want and seal the borders to keep out anyone from a “shithole” country. And in exchange, the right wingers promise that after the border is secure they’ll consider setting up some kind of legal immigration system. Why do you say, “give the right wingers”? The Dems claim they want a secure border, too, right? Pass a bill that contains securing the border and immigration reform. Have the reforms kick in after the border is secure. Getting the second part won’t be that difficult because, contrary to the nonsense narrative pushed by many on the left, Republicans are not anti-immigration. They are anti _illegal_ immigration. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/169 "2018-10-29T03:30:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Why do you say, “give the right wingers”? The Dems claim they want a secure border, too, right? > > Pass a bill that contains securing the border and immigration reform. Have the reforms kick in after the border is secure. Getting the second part won’t be that difficult because, contrary to the nonsense narrative pushed by many on the left, Republicans are not anti-immigration. They are anti _illegal_ immigration. The Republicans had a chance to get both border security and immigration reform with a bipartisan bill, and refused that chance, apparently because they didn’t want to make Obama look good. Even though it’s something they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/170 "2018-10-29T04:23:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Why do you say, “give the right wingers”? The Dems claim they want a secure border, too, right? > > Pass a bill that contains securing the border and immigration reform. Have the reforms kick in after the border is secure. Getting the second part won’t be that difficult because, contrary to the nonsense narrative pushed by many on the left, Republicans are not anti-immigration. They are anti _illegal_ immigration. The fact that Republicans are going crazy over immigrants having the right right under U.S. law to apply for asylum at a port of entry and that it is the only lane open to people from Honduras shows that they are _anti-immigration_. The Trump administration is actually breaking [U.S. laws](https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-94/pdf/STATUTE-94-Pg102.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3ktUeFsB5x7EosLAPJRlMOiyndBVymGUOGjcXqYSIfaNTPweGb0I0mGNo) in order to block \*legal \*immigration. And they don’t care who is hurt by trying to block \*legal \*immigration. > **[DPP-3186-Ex-8\_Redacted-FINAL.pdf](https://www.nationaltpsalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DPP-3186-Ex-8_Redacted-FINAL.pdf)** > > 979.94 KB ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/171 "2018-10-29T05:52:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > This means everyone, I mean everyone who works would have to have their fingerprints and current picture in a national database. Which is even more than a national ID. > > I, for one, am not willing to give up that much privacy just so some racists can feel safer, and so I get to pay double for all my produce. No thanks. You know, I’m going to need to backpeddle. I didn’t think it through. Whatever my post said, I had imagined green card holders getting IDd, but I didn’t consider social security identity theft with sufficient care. Googling, Kevin Drum says: I don’t personally care all that much about the level of illegal immigration. The chart above, from Pew Research, shows the current numbers, which strike me as reasonable. But obviously a lot of people do care, and most of them are Republicans. They talk tough, they build walls and fences, and they promise to hire lots of border enforcement agents. But this is all a sham. If the economic incentives continue to exist, so will illegal immigration. [Forget the Wall. If You Want Less Illegal Immigration, Go After Employers. – Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/11/forget-wall-if-you-want-less-illegal-immigration-go-after-employers/) Me: Hear hear! KD continues: The obvious way to cut down on illegal immigration has always been to go after employers. Not only does this attack the root of the problem, but it’s practically self-funding. You hire lots of ICE auditors and then pay for them by levying big fines on employers who break the law. As the problem diminishes, you collect less money but you also need fewer auditors. E-Verify isn’t perfect. Nothing is. But it could be made good enough. And once that’s done, enforcement could be made pretty widespread and the fines could be made pretty high. If you do that, you can forget about the wall. It’s just a distraction. Bottom line: Anyone who claims to be fiercely opposed to illegal immigration but doesn’t support strong employer sanctions is just lying to you. LA Times: To achieve that goal, the federal government would have to systematically and aggressively go after employers who hire workers in the U.S. illegally. But enforcement of immigration law in the workplace has remained at a symbolic level since 1986, when Congress first made it illegal to hire such workers. From 2007 to 2014, the number of employers investigated for violating hiring laws for immigrants averaged fewer than 2,500 per year, nationwide. The vast majority were not prosecuted criminally but simply fined. The reasons for weak workplace enforcement are widely recognized. For starters, Congress deliberately included a gaping loophole in the Immigration Reform and Control Act, making it extremely difficult to prosecute employers that break the law. The loophole has remained since 1986 because it is politically advantageous. There has never been much public or congressional appetite for a harsh crackdown on employers… [Op-Ed: Why immigrants won’t self-deport](http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-cornelius-self-deportation-20161130-story.html) Think tank discusses European tightening of immigration control during 1980s: Deterrence Without Discrimination [https://cis.org/Report/Employer-Sanctions-Europe](https://cis.org/Report/Employer-Sanctions-Europe) There appears to be little factual basis for an argument that employer sanctions have not worked in Western Europe, so they will not work here. Such an argument grossly overstates what can be learned through comparison and conveniently ignores or distorts the actual Western European experience with employer sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/172 "2018-10-29T09:08:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The most important ingredient in the quest to secure the border is a true desire to actually secure it. And just because a 100% secure border might not ever be possible, that doesn’t mean that we can’t get close. The border is as secure as it has been in several generations. Do you not know this? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/173 "2018-10-29T10:22:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Why do you say, “give the right wingers”? The Dems claim they want a secure border, too, right? “Giving the right-wingers what they want” and “securing the borders” are not the same thing. The border, as already noted, is as secure as it has ever been if not moreso, and the Obama administration turned away or deported record numbers of illegal immigrants. Conversely, the grossly expensive Wall right-wingers want will do very, very little to “secure the border”, so claims that Democratic opposition to it constitutes not wanting a secure border are fallacious. And illegally detaining asylum seekers and farming out their children to private detention centers run by Betsy DeVos’s people not only doesn’t secure the border, it’s actively monstrous. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/174 "2018-10-29T13:35:58Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Wait, isn’t the Constitution a living, breathing document? > > jk > > When written, it couldn’t have expected the citizens to possibly be able to support an open border with a country the size of Mexico. Provisions would have been included. That quote is not from the Constitution. You are speculating, and your speculation is not grounded in anything but your own opinion. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/175 "2018-10-29T13:50:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What does open borders even mean? Aside from anarchists and others on the extreme fringes, I don’t think anyone actually advocates for literal open borders. I think what happens is that when immigration is discussed, the Democrats seemingly always side with the immigrants, and to a large segment of the US population, this looks like favoring immigrants, illegal or otherwise, over already resident citizens. And if there are questions of asylum involved, or there’s a lot of sympathy for illegal immigrants, it is perceived as even worse. Even the terminology used can be construed as favoring illegal immigration- calling them “undocumented immigrants” instead of “illegal immigrants” or “illegal aliens” implies that they’re legitimate immigrants who just \*happen \*to not have the right paperwork, instead of people who are sneaking into the country without even trying the legal route. It’s not much of a step from there to claim that politicians and parties who are sympathetic to that might actually be in favor of open borders. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/176 "2018-10-29T14:04:12Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The border is as secure as it has been in several generations. Do you not know this? Which means it is not secure. Obviously. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/177 "2018-10-29T14:09:40Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > “Giving the right-wingers what they want” and “securing the borders” are not the same thing. The border, as already noted, is as secure as it has ever been if not moreso, and the Obama administration turned away or deported record numbers of illegal immigrants. > > Conversely, the grossly expensive Wall right-wingers want will do very, very little to “secure the border”, so claims that Democratic opposition to it constitutes not wanting a secure border are fallacious. And illegally detaining asylum seekers and farming out their children to private detention centers run by Betsy DeVos’s people not only doesn’t secure the border, it’s actively monstrous. It’s almost comical that you and others parrot some interaction of “the border is as secure as…” The fact is, it’s not secure. Period. And it is equally as comical to hear the notion that a wall couldn’t;t be helpful in parts of the border. The notion that walls don’t work is contradicted by walking around any day with one’s eyes open. And there was a quote by some one, I forget who, that made the point well. Saying walls don’t work is like saying buckets don’t work. Of course they work, which is why we see so many of them everywhere. And don’t forget their lighter cousins, fences, they do a damn good job, too. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/178 "2018-10-29T14:13:55Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I think what happens is that when immigration is discussed, the Democrats seemingly always side with the immigrants, and to a large segment of the US population, this looks like favoring immigrants, illegal or otherwise, over already resident citizens. And if there are questions of asylum involved, or there’s a lot of sympathy for illegal immigrants, it is perceived as even worse. Even the terminology used can be construed as favoring illegal immigration- calling them “undocumented immigrants” instead of “illegal immigrants” or “illegal aliens” implies that they’re legitimate immigrants who just \*happen \*to not have the right paperwork, instead of people who are sneaking into the country without even trying the legal route. > > It’s not much of a step from there to claim that politicians and parties who are sympathetic to that might actually be in favor of open borders. It’s a fairly standard piece of right-wing propagandistic skulduggery in use these days. It goes like this: 1. The Right implement, or attempt to implement, a policy that adversely affects a minority population in a discriminatory or persecutory way. 2. The Left step in to block the policy because it is unfair, discriminatory, persecutory, etc. 3. The Right use this in their messaging: “See? The Left **only** cares about minorities and hates [whites/Christians/men/Americans/etc]! And by taking the side of [minority], they’re playing identity politics!” 4. The right-wing media broadcast this messaging ubiquitously. 5. The consumers of those media accept this message hook, line and sinker. 6. Republicans and oligarchs PROFIT! Gays, trans, Muslims, immigrants, etc… all the Republicans have to do is to come up with some new heinous practice against them and the Democrats are forced to either tolerate the persecution or, in fighting it, lose the messaging battle. It’s a win-win strategy for amoral assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/179 "2018-10-29T14:22:56Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > … > When written, it couldn’t have expected the citizens to possibly be able to support an open border with a country the size of Mexico. Provisions would have been included. **Of course there was the expectation** - the idea of the border control did not yet exist and as any of the Mexicans or anyone with any knowledge of the history **it was you people who were the economic migrants pouring over the border to the Mexico…** It is how you got the lands of the Indian nations, the Texas, the entire south west of your nation. What a weird distortion of the history… ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407/180 "2018-10-29T14:32:57Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Gays, trans, Muslims, immigrants, etc… all the Republicans have to do is to come up with some new heinous practice against them and the Democrats are forced to either tolerate the persecution or, in fighting it, lose the messaging battle. It’s a win-win strategy for amoral assholes. That’s not exactly what I’m talking about though; it’s more the idea that you already have a set of people who are predisposed to be hostile to illegal immigrants because they think that they drive wages down, and take jobs from citizens, or whatever other reasons. And it happens often enough to not be a wholly mythical thing- tradesmen like electricians and carpenters have it tough in a lot of places because of so many unlicensed Mexicans willing to work for cheap, for example. Then you get a Democratic politician on TV going on about “undocumented immigrants” and all the other stuff about wanting to make a better life, etc… The people I just mentioned go “WTF? Why is this guy sticking up for people who are coming here without going through the legal process, taking jobs from Americans, and driving wages down?” It doesn’t necessarily have to be the result of any right-wing machinations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-and-the-rights-immigration-stances-are-pushing-the-left-towards-open-borders/823407.md?page=10)