$5 billion invested between 1991 and 2013 is really only about 200 million a year. You’d think it would take a little more that a baseball team’s salary to threaten Russia but what do I know.
Bush looks into Putin’s soul and sees a good man. Result: Russia invades Georgia
Obama Clinton announce a reset in Russian relations. Result: Russia invades Ukraine
Trump sees a partner in Putin and calls America’s commitment to NATO into question. Result: Putin invades … Estonia? Finland?
Here’s another mention of the $5 billion figure by Thomas O. Melia Deputy Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor in January 2014, before Yanukovych fled the country (to go where? Hmmmm.)
There’s been this line going around that since the US pursues its interests in opposition to Russian interests, that the US can’t oppose Russian pursuit of their interests when it conflicts with the US.
Why the hell not? I’m not upset at Russia for influencing US politics. They should attempt to do so. I’m upset that parts of the US are complicit in it.
The US should absolutely pursue their interests abroad and attempt to prevent interference at home. That this has to be explained to people is odd.
Well, I am just floored that there’s no factual basis to claim that the US spent $5 billion to “separate Ukraine from Russia.” You could knock me over with a feather!
I mean the logic of the US spending billions from 1991 to today to separate a country that became independent in 1991 from another country - well, there’s just no response to such a claim, is there? But thanks to Politifact, I guess there is.
“Outmaneuvered”, not so much. As we’ve known at least since his career as a reality-TV star, Trump appeals to viewers who think a wealthy and charismatic boss is automatically deserving of admiration and trust. That doesn’t make him smart or well-informed, much less competent at international diplomacy with seasoned dictators.
There are a lot of reasons that Trump defeated Clinton in the Electoral College vote, but intelligent “maneuvering” on Trump’s part wasn’t one of them.
By that logic it is never possible to elect a “bad”, stupid, ineffective or incompetent leader.
Up to this point he has always had to play by his rules and with his money. Those days are over and I don’t think he will cope well with not getting his own way.
Look at his clumsy attempt to unseat the UK ambassador and he isn’t even inaugurated yet.
Sorry, I keep forgetting. Russia didn’t invade Ukraine. It invaded the part of Russia that had been secretly hidden inside Ukrainian borders for twenty-three years.
As others have pointed out, nobody in the Obama administration spent any money trying to detach Ukraine from Russia. Because Ukraine had been detached from Russia in 1991.
Ukraine is an independent country. Its independence was recognized by Russia. Its borders were recognized by Russia. The people living in Ukraine are Ukrainians not Russians.
What Russia did in 2014 was an invasion of another country.
You are willfully ignoring that the Ukraine that separated in 1991 was an enlarged Ukraine, not the Ukraine proper. The eastern part is Ukrainian only as an administrative fluke, the over-large majority of the people there are Russian.
The Krim has never been Ukrainian until that fluke and there have been Russian military bases there since forever.
Russia didn’t invade, they were already there.
Trying to make this out as if Russia simply invaded a sovereign nation is pretty dishonest.
Likewise, that “Russia invaded Georgia” is also too simplistic.
It was Georgia that invaded Ossetia and Russia supported the Ossetians.
Of course Russia isn’t angelic in the least but the picture that is being painted, that it invades countries willy nilly and that Estonia or Poland are in real danger of invasion, is just not correct.
The Russian SSR transferring sovereignty and control of the Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR and then ratifying that by recognizing it through border controls after 1991, paying rent to Ukraine for the lease of the naval base there, and agreeing to respect Ukrainian sovereignty and borders through formal international agreements is a bit more than a mere “administrative fluke.”
Crimea had at least a plurality if not majority of ethnic Russians there, but that doesn’t mean they were necessarily Russian citizens. And even then, simply having a large group of an ethnic population from another country doesn’t justify that other country invaded and seizing that territory. Again, if a large group of Americans lived in a certain part of Mexico and there was a coup or change of government in Mexico, the U.S. would not be justified in invading that part (and that part alone) of Mexico, occupying it, and then arranging for a referendum under the auspices of that occupation for the purpose of annexing the part of Mexico.
Russia’s changing excuses to justify their conduct are the only thing dishonest here. If they are so concerned about their ridiculous accusations that Ukraine’s new government is neo-nazi, instead of just sheltering and hiding Yanukovych, why not have him make a public campaign that his ouster was illegitimate? Why not have him publicly demand to be returned to office, instead of just trying to take and absorb pieces of Ukraine here and there? The answer is likely because this was never about the actual government in Ukraine but instead about ensuring that whoever was leading it was kept in the Russian sphere by force or coercion, while also giving Russia a great opportunity to avoid ever having to pay rent for the naval base in Crimea again and having the possibility of the lease being revoked or otherwise expiring based on the government of Ukraine’s decisions.
Because Russia has been working very hard to make it so. RT, which owes its heavily slanted style more to FoxNews than to Pravda, has been gaining coverage across the world, and certainly there is some merit to the suggestion that Russia does employ (figuratively or literally) internet…let’s call them “advocates” … to counter negative opinions and promote positive ones, although the scale of this is not clear to me.
And while it is also true that the West has also happily engaged in propaganda of various types over the years, Russia has been making a much more concerted effort of late.
You guys have been so spoiled by your country’s propaganda there is just no talking to you anymore.
You are lost.
Have fun with your war against Russia.
Oh, don’t take your ball and go home just because we are having a debate.
Serious question for you: do you believe that all countries have the right to use military force against other countries, if the military force is intended to seize control of areas that share similar ethnic populations to the attacking country?
It’s almost as if facts that don’t conform to a particular ideological world view just don’t compute. If you’ll excuse me, I’ve got to cash that $5 billion check I got from the State Dept. for this post.